MFC still looking for a small forward and we should look at Ahmed Saad from the Saints or Jeffrey Garlett from Carlton.

Both teams are slightly stocked at small forward with Saad been in and out of the Saints team and Garlett copping abuse for been invisible.

both are talented players and could thrive with hogan, clark and dawes.

What we can offer.

2nd round pick (pick 20) is too high, should be used for a mid anyway and 3rd round might not get it done so might need a player trade.

Maybe a Tapscott

or a Fitzpatrick and a swap of picks. If Fitz's form holds, he could be worth a bit in trade week.

MFC still looking for a small forward and we should look at Ahmed Saad from the Saints or Jeffrey Garlett from Carlton.

Both teams are slightly stocked at small forward with Saad been in and out of the Saints team and Garlett copping abuse for been invisible.

both are talented players and could thrive with hogan, clark and dawes.

What we can offer.

2nd round pick (pick 20) is too high, should be used for a mid anyway and 3rd round might not get it done so might need a player trade.

Maybe a Tapscott

or a Fitzpatrick and a swap of picks. If Fitz's form holds, he could be worth a bit in trade week.

We only have one Tapscott and one Fitzpatrick, so how can we trade a Tapscott or a Fitzpatrick?

MFC still looking for a small forward and we should look at Ahmed Saad from the Saints or Jeffrey Garlett from Carlton.

Both teams are slightly stocked at small forward with Saad been in and out of the Saints team and Garlett copping abuse for been invisible.

both are talented players and could thrive with hogan, clark and dawes.

What we can offer.

2nd round pick (pick 20) is too high, should be used for a mid anyway and 3rd round might not get it done so might need a player trade.

Maybe a Tapscott

or a Fitzpatrick and a swap of picks. If Fitz's form holds, he could be worth a bit in trade week.

I'd say Saad will definitely be a required player at the Saints, considering Milne may never play again and he regardless of his off field issues he is 33.

Ben Warren (ex-North) has been doing very well in the VFL but I'm not sure if he is more of a lead up forward rather than the crumber we need.

MFC still looking for a small forward and we should look at Ahmed Saad from the Saints or Jeffrey Garlett from Carlton.

Both teams are slightly stocked at small forward with Saad been in and out of the Saints team and Garlett copping abuse for been invisible.

both are talented players and could thrive with hogan, clark and dawes.

What we can offer.

2nd round pick (pick 20) is too high, should be used for a mid anyway and 3rd round might not get it done so might need a player trade.

Maybe a Tapscott

or a Fitzpatrick and a swap of picks. If Fitz's form holds, he could be worth a bit in trade week.

NO NO NO NO!

Small forwards are a waist of time, surely looking at Carlton you can work this out.

Check out Geelong they don't have one, they have a number of players who rotate through the midfield and work as what you would call high half forwards, Motlop is the classic here. Ballantine at Freo is another as is Wingard at Port, Bruest and Rioli at Hawthorn. Garlett, Betts and this type of player are no use unless they have more strings to their bow this is one reason Carlton are such a one dimensional team.

Get midfield types who can get there own ball and kick goals.

I'd say Saad will definitely be a required player at the Saints, considering Milne may never play again and he regardless of his off field issues he is 33.

Ben Warren (ex-North) has been doing very well in the VFL but I'm not sure if he is more of a lead up forward rather than the crumber we need.

You're spot on about Saad. With Milne and Schneider both gone at years end he'll be starting forward pocket there.

As for Warren, as the you said he's more a lead up forward then crumbing forward, not the right fit for us. If we're going to target a small crumbing forward in he VFL Chris Michaliades with Sandringham Zebras is the man for us IMO.

As mentioned in the OP, you'd think one of Garlett, Yarran or Betts would be possible to shake free especially if we offered Fitzpatrick who you'd think they'd be very keen on. But cost would be to much I reckon. I'd love to keep Fitzy as insurance for Mitch but that may be selling Fitzy's career short. Anyway if we were to trade Fitzy I'd rather it be for a good young midfielder like Taylor Adams, Mitch Hallahan, Leroy Jetta or George Horlin-Smith.

agree, Chris Michaelides is best option in VFL.

If we look at a rookie type, Todd Banfield from Lions is off-side in Brisbane but has pace and great goal sense.

agree, Chris Michaelides is best option in VFL.

If we look at a rookie type, Todd Banfield from Lions is off-side in Brisbane but has pace and great goal sense.

NO

Ross Tungatalum

NO NO NO NO!

Small forwards are a waist of time, surely looking at Carlton you can work this out.

Check out Geelong they don't have one, they have a number of players who rotate through the midfield and work as what you would call high half forwards, Motlop is the classic here. Ballantine at Freo is another as is Wingard at Port, Bruest and Rioli at Hawthorn. Garlett, Betts and this type of player are no use unless they have more strings to their bow this is one reason Carlton are such a one dimensional team.

Get midfield types who can get there own ball and kick goals.

Small forwards far from WASTE of time, maybe playing 3 one-dimensional players in same space is. But a permanent crumber, maybe 2 who can float through midfield at bursts too? Perfect for us! Blease can play this role, but having a player like garlett/wonna in the FP would be fantastic, and the pressure on teams when we have mitch/hogan/Dawes all forward.. Wow

Small forwards far from WASTE of time, maybe playing 3 one-dimensional players in same space is. But a permanent crumber, maybe 2 who can float through midfield at bursts too? Perfect for us! Blease can play this role, but having a player like garlett/wonna in the FP would be fantastic, and the pressure on teams when we have mitch/hogan/Dawes all forward.. Wow

Don't agree, the permanent crumber role has gone with the idea of having 6 forwards and 6 backs. The elite sides in the competition don't use them.

Need a back up for Barry...

I just wish Melbourne had a forward who 1) didnt jump at he contest with all the others and 2) stayed on his feet goalside

Given the size and structure of our forward line there is plent of spilled ball to pounce on

BTW why do we lead and kick into the pockets

You dont need a small forward if you are smart

NO

Care to elaborate rjay?

Was that no to Banfield, Michaliades or both?

Reckon they both have the ability to roatet through the midfield playing bursts on a wing if needed.

Care to elaborate rjay?

Was that no to Banfield, Michaliades or both?

Reckon they both have the ability to roatet through the midfield playing bursts on a wing if needed.

Don't know much about Michaliadis but Banfield has shown nothing to say he can play through the midfield.

...but it's really the idea of us needing a small crumbing forward that I have a problem with, I think it is a waist of a position and with interchange restrictions due next season it will be an obsolete position if it's not already. We need players who can accumulate the ball, set up and kick goals work hard up the ground, that counts out a lot of if not all names mentioned on this thread. Saad, Garlett, Betts, Yarran, even Milne no thanks.

rjay - you are being far too simplistic with this 'Small Forwards don't exist anymore' spiel.

They do exist, but some have had to bring another skill to bear so as to avoid being one-dimensional as you say.

Rioli goes into the middle and is aggressive in his defence work.

LeCras goes up the ground linking with the midfield.

Stokes runs through the midfield.

But these guys, and others, are dynamite around goals. If you ever play in a team with dominant tall forwards (which I do) and you don't have a small forward smart enough to get to the right areas (which we don't), then you really feel the effects of wasted entries forward (which we do).

A small forward who can read the play and be useful when he is not kicking his 3 goals are a great resource and definitely a priority once midfielders are found.

looking back at grand final teams of the past 30 years

the spine and gutz seem to be all similar

and then you have gravediggers

weve got gravediggers and don't need any more

it would be nice to have a crumbing forward specialist, but they are not needed

take a look at the past gf teams, theres players in each team that you think , how did he get a game?

its simple really , the team was very good in most areas and a gravedigger got a spot

rjay - you are being far too simplistic with this 'Small Forwards don't exist anymore' spiel.

They do exist, but some have had to bring another skill to bear so as to avoid being one-dimensional as you say.

Rioli goes into the middle and is aggressive in his defence work.

LeCras goes up the ground linking with the midfield.

Stokes runs through the midfield.

But these guys, and others, are dynamite around goals. If you ever play in a team with dominant tall forwards (which I do) and you don't have a small forward smart enough to get to the right areas (which we don't), then you really feel the effects of wasted entries forward (which we do).

A small forward who can read the play and be useful when he is not kicking his 3 goals are a great resource and definitely a priority once midfielders are found.

This is exactly what I'm getting at, the 3 you've mentioned plus Ballantine, Wingard and the like, that's what we need. It's the Carlton and St Kilda type we don't need...whether it's the player or the club development but players like Betts and Garlett, Saad, they don't give enough and when they are covered they don't have a plan b.

This is exactly what I'm getting at, the 3 you've mentioned plus Ballantine, Wingard and the like, that's what we need. It's the Carlton and St Kilda type we don't need...whether it's the player or the club development but players like Betts and Garlett, Saad, they don't give enough and when they are covered they don't have a plan b.

Yes, but I baulked at your assertion that we should 'get midfield types who get their own ball and kick goals'...

It's much easier to find a small forward and make them useful up the ground or in a complimentary role.

Teaching mids to play small forward is tough.

Get a crumber, who reads the play well and has kicked goals and teach them a complimentary role.

Jack Watts? Does a player have to be small to be a small forward?

Yes, but I baulked at your assertion that we should 'get midfield types who get their own ball and kick goals'...

It's much easier to find a small forward and make them useful up the ground or in a complimentary role.

Teaching mids to play small forward is tough.

Get a crumber, who reads the play well and has kicked goals and teach them a complimentary role.

Maybe, maybe not but I think we both agree that they need more than one trick. I would love someone like the 3 you mentioned with us and just noticed 'Nashers' post above on Watts, I think he does have the ability to crumb the ball forward as he's shown before. A 196cm small forward would create some problems, he has the speed, skill and awareness.

Maybe Stark could be a left field option if he can lift his game a bit? A small midfielder who can play forward.

Small forwards we have Davey, Jetta, Tapscott, Byrnes, Kent, Bail, Blease, before we draft any small forwards we need to get rid of the 8 on our list. You will find once we start contolling the footy more, have more inside 50m our small forwards will be at the feet of our tall forwards. At the moment they are working to far up the ground and are usually the ones delivering into our forward 50m arc. You get a midfield that can transit the ball effectively the small forward can stay where they need to be.

196cm small forward...

The idea is that Hogan and Dawes don't have to create a contest and then be asked to fight it out for their own crumb.

I don't think we should fashion a forward line that sees Watts close enough to their space to crumb from them.

Watts will bring his defender into the contest, and you don't want another 190cm+ defender competing with Hogan in the air. You want to isolate him and his man, and get a small into his area at the right time.

And you cannot just plug a midfielder into the forward line and call him a small forward. If he doesn't get to the right areas and if he doesn't kick goals - he is going to be easy to defend.

You have to have a small forward who is aggressive offensively and can also play a periphery role.

Small forwards we have Davey, Jetta, Tapscott, Byrnes, Kent, Bail, Blease, before we draft any small forwards we need to get rid of the 8 on our list. You will find once we start contolling the footy more, have more inside 50m our small forwards will be at the feet of our tall forwards. At the moment they are working to far up the ground and are usually the ones delivering into our forward 50m arc. You get a midfield that can transit the ball effectively the small forward can stay where they need to be.

This is what I am talking about - Jetta is a mid. Tapscott doesn't get to the right areas, Kent is a baby and a mid, Bail is a mid, Blease is a wing.

Only Davey and Byrnes are small forwards and they are both about to retire or a year away from it.

Get a good small forward to work at the feet of Dawes, Hogan, and Clark and it will mean we keep the ball down there and are a more dangerous proposition.

Todd Banfield anyone? 23 years old, 53 games. 57 goals, 54 behinds.

He hasn't played a game this year for the Lions after being their main small forward in 2010 and 2011. He suffered injuries in 2012 which saw Josh Green and Dayne Zorko overtake him.

The major knock on him from Lions' supporters is that he fumbles a bit too much and struggles to get more than 10 touches.

Worth a shot? He has genuine speed and has shown in the past glimpses of his potential.