Dees to meet AFL Commission today - the latest from Caro.

[Sir Why You Little 36,979]

a PP (or some other drafting advantage) is not just an easy way out, it would just be one part of a multi-faceted plan to reconstruct the club.

if the list doesn't get a boost then it will take years and years to get competitive on the field, further damaging the club and the competition/

Part of the overall plan to get mfc competitive in a "reasonable" amount of time involves some quick action on the list

The supporters, the afl and other stakeholders won't wait seven or more years for the club to competitive on the field

No we won't. But i want to see hard innovative work to climb up the ladder, not charity. Our reign will be stronger and last longer that way.

[Redleg 40,837]

Campaign by other clubs has begun in earnest on today's radio broadcasts - every club person I've ears about us is arguing that we don't deserve one.

Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

That's fine. Then no one ever gets a PP again. I can live with that.

A mini draft for us would be ok. Extra money in the salary cap would help. A ban on other clubs taking our players this year would help. First dibs on all players previously in drafts but not taken for this year would help.First dibs on mature aged players would help.

There are plenty of ways to help without PP's.

One thing I can guarantee is that the other clubs at the very least, want us to be competitive, so that it doesn't affect them in the hip pocket.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

More money from the AFL won't fix the whole issue.

Money alone will just a band aid solution. We could pay off our debts for a bit, and contract obligations, and the tanking fine but we will be right back in the same situation again in two years because we still wont be winning games.

We also need a priority pick to help fix our list.

This leg up won't work if its half baked - we need some money and a priority pick.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Reckon the draft picks will come with a lot of conditions ie first AFL is satisfied we are sorted out off field, then they will want the picks to impact our onfield performances straight away - that is their biggest concern and I don't think stockpiling 18 year olds will help us in the short term.

That's why i think financial support + an expanded salary cap would be more appropriate. It would enable us to secure proven tallent in Free agency and would be less opposed by other clubs.

That will only work if players are willing to come to the club though!

(If we have a totally different club structure and proven coach by Free agency time we might just be able to trick them into thinking we are on our way up)

Edited June 15, 2013 by Young Dee

[deanox 9,898]

Hey guys, on the mini draft idea, what type of club is most likely to want to trade a player for a mini draft pick? I assume another club at rock bottom probably won't want to trade away a high level player (although may be willing to trade a pick), a top of the table team in competition for a premiership probably won't won't to trade away their top level players for a young kid as it will weaken their chances over their open window.

I think the only teams for would benefit from the trade are teams that see themselves as competitive but too far away to actually snag a flag, OR teams who have been at the top for a while and think they are about to begin the slide (potentially during a period of competitiveness without being an actual challenger.

For these clubs, it is unlikely they'll get any top 10 talent onto their list in the next 2-3 years, however they have a core playing list that has a lot of potential and is developing very well. In this scenario the club could arguably trade away a 27+ year old player for a mini draft pick to him inject some talent in the the bottom age -

One example may be Geelong, who would feel its window is still open this year, but if they want to extend their dominance for another 5-10 years there will probably be a few years where they don't challenge even though they are competitive. For example, if they think they'll get Ablett back in 2 years they may want to have another crack then. Trading a senior player now for a mini draft future-star may actually help them in the mid term by inject talented youth while they are still a good team.

Can anyone really see any other clubs wanting to trade players for mini-draft picks? Potentially GC and GWS might be interested, only because they may have players wanting to leave for money or back to Melbourne, and the mini-draft pick coulc help spread their age group out a bit further and also potentially be the best return available for a trade. Would we be willing to take a 21 year old from one of the expansion clubs in return for a mini-draft pick, should we get it?

[daisycutter 29,604]

That's why i think financial support + an expanded salary cap would be more appropriate. It would enable us to secure proven tallent in Free agency and would be less opposed by other clubs.

That will only work if players are willing to come to the club though!

(If we have a totally different club structure and proven coach by Free agency time we might just be able to trick them into thinking we are on our way up)

problem with this approach is it is not flexible. It is a hit or miss approach

if the FA;s aren't there or they don't want to come then you re stuffed

this is why a mini-draft type of approach is good as it it opens up many different options

Plus we should already have a surplus amount of money within the salary cap come october to use on any FA's we can find

[deanox 9,898]

That's why i think financial support + an expanded salary cap would be more appropriate. It would enable us to secure proven tallent in Free agency and would be less opposed by other clubs.

That will only work if players are willing to come to the club though!

(If we have a totally different club structure and proven coach by Free agency time we might just be able to trick them into thinking we are on our way up)

DC has hit it on the head. If we can't afford to buy FA's at the moment then who are we spending money on? We have two players on big money and after that we only have about 12 other AFL performing players. The others should be on low contracts.

[Sir Why You Little 36,979]

An expanded Salary Cap is a bad idea. It just introduces inflation to our list.

Get the restructure right, before the cream.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Campaign by other clubs has begun in earnest on today's radio broadcasts - every club person I've ears about us is arguing that we don't deserve one.

Gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

We don't deserve one. Tanked like no tomorrow and completely mismanagement our affairs.

That said, I want one.

[Hannibal 5,814]

More money from the AFL won't fix the whole issue.

Money alone will just a band aid solution. We could pay off our debts for a bit, and contract obligations, and the tanking fine but we will be right back in the same situation again in two years because we still wont be winning games.

We also need a priority pick to help fix our list.

This leg up won't work if its half baked - we need some money and a priority pick.

You may have missed it, but I was interested in your opinion of our 7 top 5 draft picks in the last 10 years to some club's none.

You may like to do a ladder, but exclude the expansion clubs.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I'm very happy to use the term "abundance'. It fits.

Also, I said 10 years, but you've done your analysis over 11 (2002-2012). It doesn't change things by too much, but North drop down to 8, Sydney 6 and the Saints 5. Most other teams drop and we come down to 16.

When North have had 8, Sydney, 6 and the Saints 5 top 20 picks do you think they'd think we'd had "abundant" top 20 picks over the last 10 years ? You know, double the amount and more. Not to mention 2 x pick 1, 1 x 2, 1 x 3, 2 x 4, 1 x 5. That's 7 top 5 picks. How many have North or the Saints had ? Or Collingwood, or Essendon ? Geelong have had only 4 x top 10 picks since 2000 and no top 5. How does "no" compare to "7" ?

Interesting to note that from the 2010 draft there's only one player that was drafted in the top 30 that never played a game. Naturally it was our inspirational pick 12, who's no longer on any AFL list.

This club has had an unbelievable leg up over the last decade and it beggars belief that we could have stuffed up to the level we have. By the 2010 draft we really should have been on our way. But no, our GF is the draft - again - in 2013. Even the laughing stock of the competition, Richmond, have built solid foundations to take them further.

The HS did an analysis of drafting from 2000. Freo had the worst results and we were second. Even then they're on the way to a top 4 finish and we're on the way to a bottom 2 finish. This place has been a shambles. If the MFC sat down and did the exact opposite of what they'd decided was in the best interests of the club it's doubtful we'd be worse off. The opposite could be true.

And you really haven't drawn a distinction with the value of top 5 picks. I accept that you may be lucky enough to get a Selwood at 7, but the superstars are more likely at the pointy end of the draft, or Father-Sons. Franklin, Hodge, Judd, Thomas, Pendlebury, Cotchin, Murphy, Roughead, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Goddard, Cooney (pre knee) are all examples of top 5 picks. Anyway you look at it, we're either the unluckiest club in the land, or the most inept.

Be careful of not being able to see the forest from the trees.

We are arguing the same point.

Our drafting has been horrible over 10 years. We have had the most draft picks from top 5 to 10 to 20. Not an abundance which was what I was criticising you for considering there were three other clubs within 2 picks.

My issue is your constant use of bias, blanket statements with no evidence to support it such that our amount of picks have been "legendary", when St Kilda recieved more #5 picks over 3 years than we nor anyother club has recieved over 6, and we have had an "abundant" amount of picks, when looking at it yes we have had more but not that much more compared to the next three... however you merely shift your view point to one of the lowest clubs to get picks on the list to suit your argument - any club compared to Sydney has had an abundant amount of picks, but objectively compared to the next clubs and their amounts ours havent been abundant (see above).

Just bais, un-supported hyperboles... followed by nitpicking on spelling, semantics and putting the onus on the people calling you out to show the evidence dispite you providing no evidence originally.

Edited June 15, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Hannibal 5,814]

We are arguing the same point.

Our drafting has been horrible over 10 years. We have had the most draft picks from top 5 to 10 to 20. Not an abundance which was what I was criticising you for considering there were three other clubs within 2 picks.

My issue is your constant use of bias, blanket statements with no evidence to support it such that our amount of picks have been "legendary", when St Kilda recieved more #5 picks over 3 years than we nor anyother club has recieved over 6, and we have had an "abundant" amount of picks, when looking at it yes we have had more but not that much more compared to the next three... however you merely shift your view point to one of the lowest clubs to get picks on the list to suit your argument - any club compared to Sydney has had an abundant amount of picks, but objectively compared to the next clubs and their amounts ours havent been abundant (see above).

Just bais, un-supported hyperboles... followed by nitpicking on spelling, semantics and putting the onus on the people calling you out to show the evidence dispite you providing no evidence originally.

I'm not really sure what you're on about.

No established club in history has had the leg up we've had with pointy end draft picks, especially top 5. And when one also considers the picks we've also had in the 10-20 range it's mind-boggling how we've stuffed up. You talk of "semantics", yet you wet yourself over my word "abundant". It's certainly been abundant in my eyes. You can please yourself.

[deanox 9,898]

Can someone show statistically the difference between draft picks? I.e. success of players between picks 1-5, 5-10, 10-20 etc. Average games played, or number odds stars stars?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I'm not really sure what you're on about.

No established club in history has had the leg up we've had with pointy end draft picks, especially top 5. And when one also considers the picks we've also had in the 10-20 range it's mind-boggling how we've stuffed up. You talk of "semantics", yet you wet yourself over my word "abundant". It's certainly been abundant in my eyes. You can please yourself.

We already have talked about this. St Kilda has recieved more top 5 draft picks than we have, from 2000 to 2002, than our past 10 years.

Difference is that abundant is key in your argument, my timeframe being out by a year is clearly not - you've been picking on semantics.

[Philthy 284]

Step 1- Get about $3 Million from the AFL

Step 2- Get a massive broom and sweep out the club from the Board right down to the Player list.

Step 3- Hire Mark Williams, Leigh Matthews or Gary Ayres as coach.

[What 18,810]

we need the PP, and we will get it,.

Just cos we have stuffed up picks in the past doesn't mean we will again.

I am tipping we we are going to hire an experienced coach, an experienced head of football, and we have Jason Taylor the new recruiting guy plus Todd Viney who made some great picks last draft.

By the time November rolls around I have faith that PJ will have our house in order and we will have a stricture in place headed by the right people that will get our player development right finally.

[Hannibal 5,814]

St Kilda has recieved more top 5 draft picks than we have, from 2000 to 2002, than our past 10 years.

Bzz, wrong answer.

In that period St.Kilda received 5 and we've received 7 in the last 10 years.

And at least they got Riewodlt, Ball and Goddard.

Not to mention they're over 10 years ago and my reference point was the last 10 years, in which they've received the grand total of none.

[mfcrox 143]

I want a priority pick in this draft just so we can pick up Tom Boyd from Eastern Ranges... as well as a gun midfielder. With Clark's future uncertain, I would love to have this kid on the list. Absolutely anhilating defenders in the TAC Cup and Under 18 National Championships. Hogan and Boyd would be the most dominant forward line combination in the competition in 3yrs. If Clark gets over his foot problems then we have ourselves a ready-made replacement for Jamar.

2013 Ideal Draft/Trade/Free Agency Period:

National Draft

Pick 1/2 - Tom Boyd (Best available)

Pick 2/3 - Best available midfielder

Pick 10-15 - Best available midfielder (Trade out for this pick)

Free agency - A 27-28yr old 'A' Grade midfielder and throw the kitchen sink at them. Give them an offer they can't refuse.

Pre-season Draft

Best available out-of-contract midfielder

I know that some may not agree with picking Boyd, but this kid is TOO GOOD to not pick. A forward-line of Hogan and Boyd will scare opposition defenders for the next 10 years.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

There are plenty of ways to help without PP's.

One thing I can guarantee is that the other clubs at the very least, want us to be competitive, so that it doesn't affect them in the hip pocket.

Agree. This is an important underlying factor.

However clubs will differ on the level of assistance we should get.

[mjt 640]

I want a priority pick in this draft just so we can pick up Tom Boyd from Eastern Ranges... as well as a gun midfielder. With Clark's future uncertain, I would love to have this kid on the list. Absolutely anhilating defenders in the TAC Cup and Under 18 National Championships. Hogan and Boyd would be the most dominant forward line combination in the competition in 3yrs. If Clark gets over his foot problems then we have ourselves a ready-made replacement for Jamar.

2013 Ideal Draft/Trade/Free Agency Period:

National Draft

Pick 1/2 - Tom Boyd (Best available)

Pick 2/3 - Best available midfielder

Pick 10-15 - Best available midfielder (Trade out for this pick)

Free agency - A 27-28yr old 'A' Grade midfielder and throw the kitchen sink at them. Give them an offer they can't refuse.

Pre-season Draft

Best available out-of-contract midfielder

I know that some may not agree with picking Boyd, but this kid is TOO GOOD to not pick. A forward-line of Hogan and Boyd will scare opposition defenders for the next 10 years.

I no we need followers but I'm with you, how are they going to pass up on this kid, I have no doubt that pick 1and 2 are ours, I can't see how Jason Taylor will be able to overlook Boyd.

[whatwhat say what 22,697]

boyd is also reportedly adept at tap work.

he can play dual positions.

but in an ideal world we're going to go on an 11 game winning streak, sneak into the finals, and onto premiership glory, right? right!

[Cards13 9,117]

.... Is the AFL going to run an eye over our final draft board just to be sure we get it right this time?

Edited June 15, 2013 by Cards13

[deanox 9,898]

I know he sounds like a good tall, but it would be criminal for us to add more KPPs when we are so bereft of midfielders.

[DemonOX 8,783]

I know he sounds like a good tall, but it would be criminal for us to add more KPPs when we are so bereft of midfielders.

It should be obvious to everyone who is watching our games that we need MIDS and more MIDS.

MIDS,MIDS,MIDS

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think what people have issue with is the word 'deserve'...

this is what the caused the priority picks demise. too many clubs thought they deserved a priority or other low pick... this 'deserving self attitude' allowed them to pillage, rather than be helped when needed.

... a bit like someone stealing a disability car park spot... it was there & they couldn't resist it.

then it was on for all, & as usual we were last to try our hand & first caught out...

where now its a needs case. unlike nearly all who stooped down the ladder for a quick hit on an early pick or priority.