Here is yet another post I can't follow because Scotty J from Boogie Nights has come to reassure the MFC it's a credit to the AFL and to enable it's destructive behavior. Can we PLEASE stop quoting him?

This is the stupid part. A group of so-caled "senior" players went down to Geelong one afternoon with every intention of not trying. They suffered the 2nd worst defeat in history, with a true agenda of making a statement to the club by losing as hard as they could. All along, without them realising, that Schwab was going to get the ass at the end of that weekend, regardless of the result.

If said senior players had've pulled their heads out of their ass, played their guts out and actually challenged Geelong that day, they would've got their wish with the CEO being moved on, Bailey would've stayed coach (for how long who knows), and they would've had a lot more respect from supporters like myself, WYL and Old Dee (not that we are in some special group).

Neeld has done well to get rid of the cancer/s that played that day, but it appears the effects are still lingering (if reports are correct about Watts, Frawley and Sylvia). The sooner the playing group is free of such disease, and I can assure you, it's bloody close, then this club will move forward.

Well said billy.

This is why 186 is still hanging around the clubs neck. It was not properly dealt with on the sunday night.

It was dealt with to appease the journalists deadlines for mondays first edition.

Which is why Greg Baum got it so wrong in today's Aged.

Here is yet another post I can't follow because Scotty J from Boogie Nights has come to reassure the MFC it's a credit to the AFL and to enable it's destructive behavior. Can we PLEASE stop quoting him?

but Colin the above is his best effort to date. I thought even you would like to read it!!

but Colin the above is his best effort to date. I thought even you would like to read it!!

It's getting to the point I'm thinking of recreating that scene from Event Horizon where that dude gouges his own eyes out just so I don't have to read his 'contributions'.

Thanks for thinking about amusing me WYL but I will repeat my call. If you do want to get into an argument with him, just address him and don't put him in quotes.

Well said billy.

This is why 186 is still hanging around the clubs neck. It was not properly dealt with on the sunday night.

It was dealt with to appease the journalists deadlines for mondays first edition.

Which is why Greg Baum got it so wrong in today's Aged.

In a lot of ways, WYL, I'm gald the board changed at the last minute and flicked Bailey instead of Schwab. It showed the players that they don't run this football club, and what do you know, a few of them got offside and have since departed. However, the 3-yr extension of Schwab's contract showed that for every smart decision they made, they would follow it up with 100 fcuk ups.

I always laugh at the posters that tell us to move on from 186, fact is, as you say, it's still hanging around our necks. Frawley, Watts and Sylvia learnt under those "leaders" at Geelong that day, and (again, if reports are correct) their attitude reeks of that behaviour that was deemed acceptable. I'm just glad they are now in the minority, but the very fact that it is still there is restricting this club.

What mess? Is that a serious question? There has never been a poster in the history of this site who seems to be completely and utterly blind to what is happening as you are. I'm not saying that to be nasty, it is just an observation. How can you not recognise that we're amongst the most uncompetitiv e teams in the last few decades and 5m in the red as a mess? Unbelievable.

It is called the Pollyanna syndrome, similar to the Stockholm syndrome however instead of kidnappers it involves attending too many training sessions/volunteer nights/fundraisers etc and to much incidental contact with players, staff, coaches etc at a football club.

Sufferers feel overly connected to the club, so much so they can they mistakenly believe they are employed by the club and/or part of the inner sanctum. Sufferers can no longer think critically or indeed form their own thoughts and can become aggressive if anyone connected to the club is in any way questioned. The classic symptom is blind optimism and refusal to accept anything is wrong.

It is very difficult to treat and there is no known cure. Some Fitzroy fans were acutely affected and can occasionally be seen in boutique North Fitzroy pubs with an old footy record in hand muttering about Micky Conlan and Gary Pert.

There are suggestions Mark Neeld may be a high profile sufferer (apart from every presser the keep calm and a carry on sign in his office is perhaps an indicator).

I sympathize as every pre-season i start to feel blindly optimistic and start to worry i might develop Pollyanna syndrome. Fortunately once the season starts the reality of how bad we are snaps me out of it. But still i worry. I even caught myself thinking at lunch today that perhaps Neeld will pull of a modern miracle and turn the death ship around and sail us to premiership island. Perhaps i need help.

Schwab polarised people, so now every mistake that is supposedly evident is his fault, have you seen Peter Jackson's list, the only thing I have heard Jackson say re the Footy Dept was that it was perhaps too inexperienced to deal with all that has been thrown at it in the last 18 months, all the rest again is media speculation.......Caroline Wilson who hated Scwhab is driving this again

I am not defending Schwab, he went with dignity, but let's see what Peter Jackson SAYS....not what the media think he is going to say

Too many people at this club not taking responsibility for an absolute disaster. Come out of the closet and fess up to your mistakes, bunch of weak gutted plicks. Too much hand wringing going on here, where are those incompetent fools.

You really are clueless aern't you.

You have no idea how serious this is, & you claim to be inside the club on a regular basis.

Jackson is callling on a complete restructure of the Footy Dept. & so am i tbh. Because right now it aint working.

Pure and simple.

No he is not, haven't heard him say it, that is what the media are saying, you may be right, but let us hear it from Peter Jackson's moutn, Don McLardy said this is his statement

" Peter Jackson has been asked by the Board to examine every aspect of the Club and today he outlined a number of changes he believes are required to take our Club forward. In coming weeks and months we will seek to change the structure of the Football Department as well as a number of other aspects of our business."

He believes, we will seek, not it is totally stuffed as you seem to be inferring, this is what peeves me, and makes you appear clueless read what it says, not what Caroline Wilson says it says. You have no idea and neither do I as to what is wrong and what changes will take place

Too many people at this club not taking responsibility for an absolute disaster. Come out of the closet and fess up to your mistakes, bunch of weak gutted plicks. Too much hand wringing going on here, where are those incompetent fools.

Beautifully written, hopefully you are including some supporters

It's getting to the point I'm thinking of recreating that scene from Event Horizon where that dude gouges his own eyes out just so I don't have to read his 'contributions'.

Thanks for thinking about amusing me WYL but I will repeat my call. If you do want to get into an argument with him, just address him and don't put him in quotes.

Hello Col, WYL didn't wake you from your afternoon nap did he, try and put something constructive old chap to add to the debate, rather than your usual attack on me and others,....oh sorry....forgot that's all your capable of

I the end he is gone and that is a good thing for the club going forward, and 'sat' as for the FD structure you are right Jackson didn't say the words it was stuffed but he did say it was not set up as he would like it, he felt the CEO was effectively head of the FD with 4 people reporting to him and that wasn't the way to do business.

Someone put up a transcript of his half time talk and it's there for all to see but really it makes no difference, there will be changes and the first one will be head of the FD.

Well said billy.

This is why 186 is still hanging around the clubs neck. It was not properly dealt with on the sunday night.

It was dealt with to appease the journalists deadlines for mondays first edition.

Which is why Greg Baum got it so wrong in today's Aged.

WYL, I understand you think 186 is still a problem and I have been searching high and low and spent many a sleepless night, but I think I have found the answer

http://blog.san-ss.com.ar/2011/03/project-euler-problem-186-solved.html

WYL, I understand you think 186 is still a problem and I have been searching high and low and spent many a sleepless night, but I think I have found the answer

http://blog.san-ss.com.ar/2011/03/project-euler-problem-186-solved.html

Please go back to sleep. You are not funny or constructive.

Peter Jackson will restructure thiis club finally and that is a good thing.

Some of your heroes will not survive Satyriconhome. Just giving you early warning.

Mr. It's just a rough trot.....

gonna get real toasty in here if pj reappoints him for another 2 years?

gonna get real toasty in here if pj reappoints him for another 2 years?

Not really. Mark will only get reappointed if the wins come his way

He would know that now without a doubt.

It is called the Pollyanna syndrome, similar to the Stockholm syndrome however instead of kidnappers it involves attending too many training sessions/volunteer nights/fundraisers etc and to much incidental contact with players, staff, coaches etc at a football club.

Sufferers feel overly connected to the club, so much so they can they mistakenly believe they are employed by the club and/or part of the inner sanctum. Sufferers can no longer think critically or indeed form their own thoughts and can become aggressive if anyone connected to the club is in any way questioned. The classic symptom is blind optimism and refusal to accept anything is wrong.

It is very difficult to treat and there is no known cure. Some Fitzroy fans were acutely affected and can occasionally be seen in boutique North Fitzroy pubs with an old footy record in hand muttering about Micky Conlan and Gary Pert.

There are suggestions Mark Neeld may be a high profile sufferer (apart from every presser the keep calm and a carry on sign in his office is perhaps an indicator).

I sympathize as every pre-season i start to feel blindly optimistic and start to worry i might develop Pollyanna syndrome. Fortunately once the season starts the reality of how bad we are snaps me out of it. But still i worry. I even caught myself thinking at lunch today that perhaps Neeld will pull of a modern miracle and turn the death ship around and sail us to premiership island. Perhaps i need help.

Ah binman, I too hop off the reality bus at the end of every season and start to suckle at the breast of fantasy that is known as the preseason.

It doesn't take long to hop back on.

Unfortunately the bus hasn't been going snywhere for some time.

The depot's being repainted and refurbished. Perhaps that will attract an experienced driver instead of the P platers that are normally hired

I respect your knowledge on the MFC and I know you're a smart bloke WJ but you're above this post.

Before we can fix the problem we need to first understand the problem. Just saying that he's gone so that's it and pretending it's all about bloodlust is wrong, the supporters need to know what went wrong and if that means those responsible are identified then so be it. CS did do good for the club but he has overseen the club at it's lowest point in history. He also wasn't alone.

Jarka - this is what I said in the Foundation Heroes thread - you might have missed it:-

As one great philosopher said, "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."

Too much of what's going on around the club and too much talk among the supporters is all about negativity and looking backwards. We need to take on board the mistakes of the past and then look forward and act together to rebuild our foundations. That's what being a Foundation Hero means to me.

No further comment is needed.

Cam Schwab board.

Jarka - this is what I said in the Foundation Heroes thread - you might have missed it:-

No further comment is needed.

I can't argue with that WJ

This is the stupid part. A group of so-caled "senior" players went down to Geelong one afternoon with every intention of not trying. They suffered the 2nd worst defeat in history, with a true agenda of making a statement to the club by losing as hard as they could. All along, without them realising, that Schwab was going to get the ass at the end of that weekend, regardless of the result.

If said senior players had've pulled their heads out of their ass, played their guts out and actually challenged Geelong that day, they would've got their wish with the CEO being moved on, Bailey would've stayed coach (for how long who knows), and they would've had a lot more respect from supporters like myself, WYL and Old Dee (not that we are in some special group).

Neeld has done well to get rid of the cancer/s that played that day, but it appears the effects are still lingering (if reports are correct about Watts, Frawley and Sylvia). The sooner the playing group is free of such disease, and I can assure you, it's bloody close, then this club will move forward.

If this is true, that the senior players planned to go to Kardinia Park to throw a game, then this Is the Tail Wagging the Dog, & it shows just how our underperforming senior players & leadership, were way ahead of themselves & thus, Why we haven't been able to produce any decent kids for near on 15 Years.

Well said billy.

This is why 186 is still hanging around the clubs neck. It was not properly dealt with on the sunday night.

It was dealt with to appease the journalists deadlines for mondays first edition.

Which is why Greg Baum got it so wrong in today's Aged.

IF, there is 'Any' of this attitude remaining within the Club,,, then it is on the Board & Neeld to ensure it is surgically removed & irradiated to cleanse the place.

.... this attitude of players, thinking they "as players", are too good for the jumper is Poison.... only at Melbourne.

our under-performing has been going on for a looong time, even with some great Lists of the past, still underperformed.

I agree to an extent Jack. As a man, we can't keep questioning CS for current club policy as he has been gone for months. Yet, I feel the board needs to be held a little more accountable for the fact that they were supposed to have held him to account after the Geelong game but never really did anything. Also, they need to be questioned as to why he was given a 3 year contract the year before yet was gone within 6 months and how a bloke who was supposed to be fired 2 years ago could suddenly be offered a long term contract.

I agree to an extent Jack. As a man, we can't keep questioning CS for current club policy as he has been gone for months. Yet, I feel the board needs to be held a little more accountable for the fact that they were supposed to have held him to account after the Geelong game but never really did anything. Also, they need to be questioned as to why he was given a 3 year contract the year before yet was gone within 6 months and how a bloke who was supposed to be fired 2 years ago could suddenly be offered a long term contract.

That is one of the things they must be held accountable for. If any of the current board are to remain then it's these questions that can't be avoided even if they come out and say, 'hey we got it wrong'. Not likely though is it.

PJ has stated that he is concerned that the footy department is inexperienced.

Schwab has 3 decades of experience in football clubs, both in football departments and admin.

Does it not follow that perhaps the structure was set up was with good intentions, so that Schwab could assist and guide the football department as they gained that experience?

Also I was interested to mitt that we are all in uproar about 4 direct reports from the FD but also read that Jackson has 3 direct reports from the admin department. We could argue the same thing re too many reports, I would have thought you'd have a GM - FD and a GM - Admin, and that each of those may have 3 or 4 reports?

Just a devils advocate thought on this, I certainly don't know anything and have no CEO experience.

The key aspects of a business are finance, marketing & production or in this case the football department. The CEO should sit in the structure above all these departments & have the head of those departments report back. It streamlines the way a business runs & simplifies the structure.

Rather than giving the head of the football department responsibility to oversee how the football department was being run Schwab was taking this role on himself to an extent by micro managing the one department. I believe the Andrews Report would have been very critical of this as it is not normal procedure.

I am no Schwab supporter, but I would say it is easy for any new leader to blame the previous person in charge. They do this to give themselves time to ‘fix the mess’ and because they have a different philosophy about the way things should be done.

Moreover, there is no perfect structure and Schwab’s structure would have been fine had we picked correctly in the draft.

The key aspects of a business are finance, marketing & production or in this case the football department. The CEO should sit in the structure above all these departments & have the head of those departments report back. It streamlines the way a business runs & simplifies the structure.

Rather than giving the head of the football department responsibility to oversee how the football department was being run Schwab was taking this role on himself to an extent by micro managing the one department. I believe the Andrews Report would have been very critical of this as it is not normal procedure.

I agree with all except the Andrews report because I do not know anything about it at all so can't comment.

The devils advocate question though, which you didn't address, is could that structure have been set up by Schwab (rightly or wrongly) because of the inexperience of the football department and not because Schwab was meddling or micro managing?

I agree with all except the Andrews report because I do not know anything about it at all so can't comment.

The devils advocate question though, which you didn't address, is could that structure have been set up by Schwab (rightly or wrongly) because of the inexperience of the football department and not because Schwab was meddling or micro managing?

We will probably never know why it was setup this way. One might speculate that Schwab enjoyed this aspect of football & wanted to get involved. Or that the MFC were under resourced so he took it upon himself. Either way he had roughly 4 years to setup a structure & system that was industry norm & failed to do so. His area of expertise does not relate to the football department even though he spent time in recruiting when he was at the beginning of his career. These are some of the reasons why I speculated regarding the Andrews Report as I believe that it would have been critical of his methods. Essentially by having 4 football department members report to him he was taking on the role of CEO & head of football operations. That's my take on it anyway.

In addition I don't believe the FD is inexperienced. Harrington, Viney, Craig, Neeld, Rawlings & Royal have all spent a considerable amount of time in football departments. Although Neeld is an inexperienced head coach granted.