How do you fix this?

[P-man 13,309]

Staggered by, surely.

What's your current stance on this issue, bing?

[Dr. Gonzo 22,786]

something to do with the fact that Sam is struggling at Casey.

Worse than Nicholson, Bail, Jetta, Tapscott or even Dunn or Jordie in the seniors? Surely he could replace at least one of them, he's already shown he can play just needs to gain experience and a tank and be played in the right position.

[P-man 13,309]

What's your current stance on this issue, bing?

Doesn't look like I'm getting an answer. I guess I'll have to judge based on which posts you like.

[bing181 8,355]

a) you didn't get an answer (yet) because I don't spend my life on these boards

b) you didn't get an answer because private sub-conversations within a thread clog up the board, and are irrelevant for most readers and

c) you didn't get an answer because I already clarified my position to you on this some time back, and the other thing that clogs up these boards is incessant and needless repetition.

[P-man 13,309]

a) you didn't get an answer (yet) because I don't spend my life on these boards

B) you didn't get an answer because private sub-conversations within a thread clog up the board, and are irrelevant for most readers and

c) you didn't get an answer because I already clarified my position to you on this some time back, and the other thing that clogs up these boards is incessant and needless repetition.

a) You had responded in a couple of other threads so was merely wondering if you'd seen this one, or were choosing not to respond.

b) I have no interest in a private conversation, I'm asking you for your position publicly.

c) You wouldn't be the first person to have adjusted their thinking somewhat over the course of recent weeks. Ron Burgundy is one example of this, from memory. In saying that, I honestly I can't recall exactly your position because all I've seen you do lately is add "likes" to posts which contradict mine, or make minor correction to other posts like the tackle count over the weekend. I'd be genuinely interested in your latest positon on what moves the club should make, and on Neeld in particular. If you don't want to, that's fine.

[1964nowMORE 456]

So tonight my 4 & 6 year old boys spent a straight hour talking non stop about demons this, demons that, why is grimes a Blackman on footy cards, who can jump higher than Howe, why did Dawes play for the magpies, is viney foot better yet......and on and on and on......BUT they started the conversation with this priceless quote:

"Dad, wouldn't it be awesome if we got the Dockers coach, and then we gave them our Coach, they would lose then"! Priceless, the innocence of youth!

[Kenny Powers 90]

So tonight my 4 & 6 year old boys spent a straight hour talking non stop about demons this, demons that, why is grimes a Blackman on footy cards, who can jump higher than Howe, why did Dawes play for the magpies, is viney foot better yet......and on and on and on......BUT they started the conversation with this priceless quote:

"Dad, wouldn't it be awesome if we got the Dockers coach, and then we gave them our Coach, they would lose then"! Priceless, the innocence of youth!

grimes is black?

[bing181 8,355]

c) You wouldn't be the first person to have adjusted their thinking somewhat over the course of recent weeks. Ron Burgundy is one example of this, from memory. In saying that, I honestly I can't recall exactly your position because all I've seen you do lately is add "likes" to posts which contradict mine, or make minor correction to other posts like the tackle count over the weekend. I'd be genuinely interested in your latest positon on what moves the club should make, and on Neeld in particular. If you don't want to, that's fine.

Fair enough.

No simple answer for me, we have problems from top to bottom, and they look different (worse?) every week. I'd previously said let's see where we are later in the season, when we hopefully have something like all our senior players (back) in and we can measure ourselves against the mid to lower-ranked teams. But if over the next few weeks we get too many more performances like the first half in Freo, hard to see that we would wait that long before there are some moves in/around the FD, probably centring on Neeld. I would suspect that Healey is close to the mark, and that at least subconsciously, those who need to be making these decisions have the bye in the back of their minds as some kind of short-term cut-off point, with perhaps other markers further down the track if we manage to get through these next couple of weeks without another catastrophic loss.

Only those on the inner circle of the club really know what's going on in terms of the coach, players and coaching, but presumably Jackson is working through it, and I'm fine to go with whatever he decides. Equally though, we may not see the results of whatever those decisions are till later in the season, or even the end of it. Some of the rumours around are "interesting" to say the least, and I suspect that the $$ are having a big say in what we can/can't do.

On a personal note, I guess the thing in all this that perplexes me, is that Neeld aside, there are some good, experienced people in the FD, including 3 or 4 who have coached at senior level, and others who've worked at successful clubs. If our problems are so glaringly obvious, how come all this collective football coaching experience can't come up with solutions??

Add to that the situation at Casey: it's a team built around a dozen or so Melbourne players, under the same coaches as the seniors, even including having the MFC development coaches as game-day coaches. They're trained the same way, and play to the same game plan (apparently). Except for one poor game, they look and play like a football team, even a very good football team. Once again, how come these same coaches can get Casey up and about, but not the seniors?

Surely it's either because a) the players "lose it" when they play in the AFL - which could happen given our lack of experience, not to mention lack of confidence and self-belief, or b) we just have too many players that just aren't up to it at AFL level.

[pitmaster 3,146]

Fundamentally the issue is can we afford not to sack Neeld?

If the team improves or shows something in the first couple of weeks after the bye against a couple of the lesser sides, as I have said elsewhere, maybe the issue dies.

But the team at the moment look worse than coach killers: they could be club killers.

If he goes I'd cop T Viney as coach.

Passionate and learnt under Clarkson. Would have a Northey like red hot go I suspect.

Edited May 28, 2013 by pitmaster

[jackaub 1,402]

Ok here is how we fix this.

step 1. Admit that without a midfield the rest of the year is a write off.

step 2. Admit that the best defenders and forwards in the world would struggle without a functioning midfield.

step 3. Who will replace mark Jamar?

step 4. Whether you like it or not mark neeld isn't going to be attracting players to the club now. We need a new coach (respected and experienced) who can start to build belief.

step 5. Exodus bollocks. Only one is a free agent.

step 6. Most importantly of all. Realize the game is won and lost in the midfield. We need one that is competitive by 2014 and not by drafting. We need a few guns and not free agents. We need to trade two or three players with currency to get these mids and it may hurt but once our midfield is competitive so will we be and there starts belief and confidence.

Yes agree completely and every player is on the trade table You cannot even think about going halfway At the moment a lot of "Good" players and high draft picks are surplus to the immediate requirements ie FIX the midfield

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fundamentally the issue is can we afford not to sack Neeld?

If the team improves or shows something in the first couple of weeks after the bye against a couple of the lesser sides, as I have said elsewhere, maybe the issue dies.

But the team at the moment look worse than coach killers: they could be club killers.

If he goes I'd cop T Viney as coach.

Passionate and learnt under Clarkson. Would have a Northey like red hot go I suspect.

We could not afford to have appointed a disaster like Neeld. The cost of terminating Neeld will be offset by stemming the damage ( if salvageable) amongst the playing group.

You are dreaming if you think Neeld can save his role. Your denial of what has transpired under this guy would make David Irving blush.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yes agree completely and every player is on the trade table You cannot even think about going halfway At the moment a lot of "Good" players and high draft picks are surplus to the immediate requirements ie FIX the midfield

That is plain dumb. There is a core of players we want to keep. The players we want to trade are the players that have no value.

[rjay 24,182]

Yes agree completely and every player is on the trade table You cannot even think about going halfway At the moment a lot of "Good" players and high draft picks are surplus to the immediate requirements ie FIX the midfield

A midfield without a good defence or forward line gives you GWS...we need balance, I know our midfield is a problem but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[titan_uranus 23,134]

The thing that stands out to me when I watch us play, more than anything, is our decision-making. We continually turn the ball over. It's easy to put this down to bad skills, and sometimes that's the case, but skill isn't the only factor. The pressure, intensity and speed of AFL forces our players into rushing and making poor decisions. Kicking the ball at training is one thing. Kicking the ball when you're trying to out-sprint Sam Mitchell is another. At the moment the vast majority of our players aren't capable of making good decisions under play.

This is why we 'don't play like we train'. This is why our players can show form at VFL level but can't step up.

The result of this is that we turn the ball over in horrendous situations. It's one thing to turn the ball over by poorly kicking inside 50. It's another altogether to attempt to bring the ball out of defence, start running, panic, look around, and before you know what to do, you've coughed it up in a tackle. We see this kind of play far too often. Our turnovers are more costly than other clubs' because we make them in critical moments of a chain of play. The result is that we offer easy scoring opportunities to our opponents.

This also explains why we're losing despite working hard on clearances and tackles. Even when we win or are competitive in these areas, like yesterday, our decision-making renders them redundant.

I don't know how to fix this. On the one hand, Neeld has clearly been unable to provide an environment in which the players can make the transition up to AFL pressure. On the other, to a large extent this aspect of football is innate. It comes down to that player, at that moment, making a decision. IMO, it's on the players to learn from their mistakes, it's on the players to learn from our losses and from what we do wrong. I don't see learning, and I don't think Neeld has to be the one to point this out.

As an example, we shouldn't need Neeld to tell Rohan Bail that continually ignoring options and attempting goals from outside 50 is going to fail more than it's going to work. Bail has to take responsibility for improving his game in this regard.

It's this decision-making that stands out to me more than speed, or skill, or any of that, and it's on both the players and the coaches (not just one or the other) to work together at improving this.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Lack of teamwork stands out to me the most. In just about every contested situation Hawthorn always had options on the outside along with good spread. For Melbourne these were non-existent.

Skills and decision making do need to improve, but I think a lot of the problem is the choices on offer are never any good in the first place.

[Fat Tony 4,575]

The thing that stands out to me when I watch us play, more than anything, is our decision-making. We continually turn the ball over. It's easy to put this down to bad skills, and sometimes that's the case, but skill isn't the only factor. The pressure, intensity and speed of AFL forces our players into rushing and making poor decisions. Kicking the ball at training is one thing. Kicking the ball when you're trying to out-sprint Sam Mitchell is another. At the moment the vast majority of our players aren't capable of making good decisions under play.

This is why we 'don't play like we train'. This is why our players can show form at VFL level but can't step up.

The result of this is that we turn the ball over in horrendous situations. It's one thing to turn the ball over by poorly kicking inside 50. It's another altogether to attempt to bring the ball out of defence, start running, panic, look around, and before you know what to do, you've coughed it up in a tackle. We see this kind of play far too often. Our turnovers are more costly than other clubs' because we make them in critical moments of a chain of play. The result is that we offer easy scoring opportunities to our opponents.

This also explains why we're losing despite working hard on clearances and tackles. Even when we win or are competitive in these areas, like yesterday, our decision-making renders them redundant.

I don't know how to fix this. On the one hand, Neeld has clearly been unable to provide an environment in which the players can make the transition up to AFL pressure. On the other, to a large extent this aspect of football is innate. It comes down to that player, at that moment, making a decision. IMO, it's on the players to learn from their mistakes, it's on the players to learn from our losses and from what we do wrong. I don't see learning, and I don't think Neeld has to be the one to point this out.

As an example, we shouldn't need Neeld to tell Rohan Bail that continually ignoring options and attempting goals from outside 50 is going to fail more than it's going to work. Bail has to take responsibility for improving his game in this regard.

It's this decision-making that stands out to me more than speed, or skill, or any of that, and it's on both the players and the coaches (not just one or the other) to work together at improving this.

Good post Lynden. IMO decision making is largely innate and decision making under high pressure needs to be a strong focus at the draft table.

[titan_uranus 23,134]

Lack of teamwork stands out to me the most. In just about every contested situation Hawthorn always had options on the outside along with good spread. For Melbourne these were non-existent.

Skills and decision making do need to improve, but I think a lot of the problem is the choices on offer are never any good in the first place.

I think the lack of teamwork stems from the broader problem of decision-making.

Barrett and Darcy do that show on the AFL website. It's really not worth watching, but today's edition did highlight a few passages of play you'd consider to indicate poor teamwork. Most involved players following their own man instead of being intuitive. I think this is decision-making at its core - at training, they'd know to go fill the gap, or chase the ball-carrier, or fill in for their teammate, but on game day, when the pressure's high, they lose their ability to think clearly and the boil their thought process down into 'what am I supposed to be doing? I'll do that'.

[Go the Biff 3,211]

Lack of teamwork stands out to me the most. In just about every contested situation Hawthorn always had options on the outside along with good spread. For Melbourne these were non-existent.

Skills and decision making do need to improve, but I think a lot of the problem is the choices on offer are never any good in the first place.

That's a huge part of our problem. 9 times out of 10, what you do when you don't have the ball determines whether you are going to get it or not.

Too many of our blokes are witches hats when the ball is not in their immediate area

Some of it is training, some of it concentration and a lot of it confidence

Too many of our blokes don't actually want the footy in their hands. So they're not prepared to do the things that will make them an option to get the ball

[daisycutter 28,722]

Humpty Dumpty and all the Kings horses and all the King's men couldn't put this midfield togther again

[mauriesy 6,907]

Humpty Dumpty and all the Kings horses and all the King's men couldn't put this midfield togther again

On the contrary, I think we are 3-4 midfield players away from developing something that is at least OK by AFL standards.

A good trade for an established midfield player and a good #1 or #2 ND draft pick at the end of 2013, plus some more VFL-type selections like Terlich and Matt Jones, then the same again in 2014 and we'll be immeasurably improved starting in 2015.

We have the beginnings in Jones, Viney and Toumpas, and I can see potential in a player like Kent, maybe Evans. We just need a lot more of them.

Get the FD organised under Jackson, and we will get a lot better, providing everyone is patient.