You know what? Melbourne bring it on themselves. Pathetic effort week in week out.

We deserve it. Someone tell me why we don't??

The players have a lot to answer for here. Their efforts are frankly pizweak. Are they trying to kill the club.

How can we not tackle?? How can we not chase?? How can we not hit a target from 20m? How can we not kick in from a point? How do we let a team get 12 clearances in a row??

The players are killing the club. Its time we turned the heat on them. If its true they revolted after 186 its a disgrace. If it is still happening it is even worse.

I am not a MN fan but he is not telling the players to play like this He is telling them to pay with abandon - "don't worry about mistakes" "Take the game on" etc etc Are they doing it? No.

Why are they not under fire? My loyalty is to the club, its tradition and its colours. Players come and go - very quickly in some circumstances. If this current crop of players destroys that - which they are doing - then it will increase my anger even more.

Pull your fingers out of your clacker and try . Try harder. Run, Tackle chase. You dont need elite skills - just commitment.

well said...

As pathetic as we are at the moment, I'd still back us to win a flag before Richmond.

I will hold that bet!

So the verdict is we are crap; I bet that's news to the rest of the football public. Oh! and Richmond are better than us I bet that's news too.

Perhaps he's like to come up with something that wasn't as obvious next time.

People seem to conveniently forget that Richmond went through a rebuild from around 2002. They haven't played in the finals for 4 or 5 years longer than us and languished near the bottom that whole time. I see comparisons in that we made very similar drafting mistakes as they did. Unfortunately it will take us longer as we stuffed up right before the expansion teams came in so our second crack at drafting was with a diluted draft pool. They still had a lot better picks second time around and got them right with Cotchin and Conca and a few others. So really Richmond have been rebuilding for quite a few more years than us but no one seems to remember this, something with journalists and short memories.

Correct me if I am wrong (seriously) but I don't remember Richmond having a '186' or even '148', a legitimate tanking investigation, an ASADA investigation, no culture, no star players, massive financial shadow.... etc etc etc.... You get the picture and were they ever in the bottom 4 for 4 or more consectutive years with no signs of improvement?

Edited May 16, 201312 yr by Young Dee

How can we not tackle?? How can we not chase?? How can we not hit a target from 20m? How can we not kick in from a point? How do we let a team get 12 clearances in a row??

You forgot:

How can we drop so many uncontested marks?

and

How can we continually kick into the man on the mark?

I know it's beyond sad, but I use going to the G each week as a way of showing my nine year old boy what not to do.

You have to get something positive out of it...

You forgot:

How can we drop so many uncontested marks?

and

How can we continually kick into the man on the mark?

I know it's beyond sad, but I use going to the G each week as a way of showing my nine year old boy what not to do.

You have to get something positive out of it...

We do this by concentrating too much on protecting patches of grass or trying to look after our own man, instead of trying to get in and help other players. You see the best teams tackle in twos and threes at times, and when we have played well (for those who can remembers such rare passages) its when we have been aggressive in tackling. I think we drop so many contested marks and kick into the man on the mark too often because of the play on at all costs mentality, these guys are trying to move the ball quickly to generate some run, but they are looking to run on before they mark the ball or they are not aware enough of where oppositions players are. No one is talking to them to tell them to go, or to hold.

You know what? Melbourne bring it on themselves. Pathetic effort week in week out.

We deserve it. Someone tell me why we don't??

The players have a lot to answer for here. Their efforts are frankly pizweak. Are they trying to kill the club.

How can we not tackle?? How can we not chase?? How can we not hit a target from 20m? How can we not kick in from a point? How do we let a team get 12 clearances in a row??

The players are killing the club. Its time we turned the heat on them. If its true they revolted after 186 its a disgrace. If it is still happening it is even worse.

I am not a MN fan but he is not telling the players to play like this He is telling them to pay with abandon - "don't worry about mistakes" "Take the game on" etc etc Are they doing it? No.

Why are they not under fire? My loyalty is to the club, its tradition and its colours. Players come and go - very quickly in some circumstances. If this current crop of players destroys that - which they are doing - then it will increase my anger even more.

Pull your fingers out of your clacker and try . Try harder. Run, Tackle chase. You dont need elite skills - just commitment.

Because they are DEEmoralised Jnr. That's what losing game after game after game does. And, as RR has explained so succintly below, they were told they weren't very good in most things to start with and lacked solid leaders, hence the 2 Jacks appointment by the Coach (with influnece from CS & CC via the rediculous Red & Blue Print). MN made them believe alright. He made them believe they were, in most areas, Shyte!!

What we see on the field is what negative belief does to you. This is a product of the coach. This hasn't quite infiltrated every single player.....yet. Players who have immense pride and professionalism, like the Jones boy, will never go down without an immense fight. But he has maturity, experience and many pre seasons under his belt to assit in whethering and seeing off such storms. Players like Garland, in the mid point of the experience chart, showed some fight up till Sunday, but also showed signs of dropping off for the first time this year.

Confidence can return quickly. But only IF you start stringing some wins together against opposition that isn't considered as bottom dwellers (like us). With the number of losses and the degree of them we've had in the last 18 months.... despair, darkness and depression could quite easily start to set it in once you start to lose hope. And some or maybe more of these blokes are starting to lose hope, and faith, in one another IMO. Young inexperienced players will lose it or gain confidence more quickly, but only if they aren't or are (as the case may be) lead in the right direction by strong leaders who stand tall when the chips are down and show them the way.

I believe we've only had 3 of those "leader" types on the field in recent times (at least until the injection of Dawes who might also add something given time) in Jones, Clark and Grimes so far. Two of those leaders are now gone and will be for many matches.

When you watch our players, generally as a whole, they look lost, shoulders drop, hands on hips (very easily), once things start to turn sour on the field. This is where players like Chip, Garland, Sylvia, Byrnes, Rodan (if he was left in the team and given a reasonable shot at getting his mojo back)!! and others needed to stand up. Until now we've only seen glimpses of leadership from Sylvia, Chip tries at times but hasn't extended himself for many matches now. Garlands "effort" has been reasonable until Sunday. Byrnes has been off and on. Rodan , well i can't judge as he's never been on or in for long enough. I think his form is a long way from what's required but i have seen signs of him at least willing to do the 1 percenters at times. And the Jones boy stands up....or has until now.....pretty much most of the time. But he's on his own atm here IMO. Which is a huge unfair burden on him, at least until Grimes and Clark return anyway. Hopefully others who you would expect to stand up, start doing so soon so he's not trying to do so all on his own.

We are a rabble but we didn't arrive here by accident.

Absolutely agree.

Neeld is principally responsible for what happens on the field. He has coming into this Club telling them privately and publicly that they are not fit enough, they don't how to train properly and they lack leadership and the leadership is not good enough. He has shredded players that were looked up to. He has basically told them they are not good enough. He has killed any sense of belief, hope and confidence across the playing group without exception. It was bad enough last year but he came into this year expecting a competitive performing team. He got blown away in Round 1 and he stated he could not work out why. He did not have a clue. It's only just twigged to him in Round 2 that he has in 18 months annihilated their belief in themselves and his structures. The comments you referred to were before the Essendon game were the desperate pleas of a coach who had no idea what was going on. And do you think they believe the coach?? After 18 months under this bloke they're too scared to make mistakes and don't believe they can win games.

In fact Neeld flew the white flag before the GCS complaining about the lack of experience against the GCS. How can the players respond when the coach gives pre game excuses?

The players are accountable for individual performances. But the coach is responsible for how the team performs? On any metric Neeld is a disaster and its a matter of time before they sack him.

In addition MN seems to have voluntarily left "experience" out with the likes of Rodan (179 games), Davey (163) and Jetta (38) in favour of (for example) Kent (1), Strauss (19) and Nicholson (23). That's a reduction of 337 games experience.

However, had we included those 3 players the Demons would have had an average of 65 games per player in experience vs the Sons' 60 games. That's an improvement, for every player (on average), of 15 games! Instead we had on the park approx 50 games per player, on average 10 less than the sons. In other words had Neeld chosen differently....there was NO "experience" excuse available to trot out. And potentially (and i emphasise potentially), we may have had a betterchance of pinching that game. And a win for this flailing club would have to be better than a loss at this point surely.

The former 3 may not have the form to justify their place either, but who's fault is that? Might be their's, might be the coach and FD, might be a bit of both. But i think it was an easy "out" to ring in the youngsters and reel out the "Inexperience" excuse on the part of MN. Or at least it was optional so the decision to play such an inexperienced team, was MN's. No one elses.

Edited May 16, 201312 yr by Rusty Nails

Yeah, pretty clear to me where the two roads diverged. Dees sacked the coach who got us to 8.5 Tigers kept theirs. Our replacement has sent us completley backwards in all ways. It's inevitable that Neeld will get sacked soon. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later. I for one want to see what Jack Watts becomes. I don't want to see him being asking to be traded at seasons end.

And for all those that this 'effort' will heal things, just look at Beamer Moloney now. His willingness to put in effort was there before Neeld it was there during and is there now. It's the coach that is making our players appear worse than what they are. All of them have more in them than what they have shown in the last 18 months, we just need a coach who can bring it out.

Yeah, pretty clear to me where the two roads diverged. Dees sacked the coach who got us to 8.5 Tigers kept theirs. Our replacement has sent us completley backwards in all ways. It's inevitable that Neeld will get sacked soon. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later. I for one want to see what Jack Watts becomes. I don't want to see him being asking to be traded at seasons end.

And for all those that this 'effort' will heal things, just look at Beamer Moloney now. His willingness to put in effort was there before Neeld it was there during and is there now. It's the coach that is making our players appear worse than what they are. All of them have more in them than what they have shown in the last 18 months, we just need a coach who can bring it out.

Actually, Danny Frawley was their Dean Bailey; Terry Wallace was their Mark Neeld. They never had a Neil Daniher, and we're still one coach behind them in the "eat your own" rebuild.

Dont know what this article is about

According to Neeld his doing "ok"

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-05-15/im-going-ok-neeld

It seems as if it's a race to the bottom as to who can call us the worst side ever and come up with the best/worst comparison, Fitzroy, Richmond, who next North?

Yes we are bad and we know it, the players know it and I dare say the coach knows it, but what purpose does it serve to continually re print it?

Some on here say we deserve it, maybe we do but how much and how often is enough, I'm sure the players are devoid of confidence and this won't help, despite what these posters say.

But, hey keep it up so the masochistic few can get their jollies off.

It would be good if some if these so called journalists could print some advice as to how they think we could get out of the [censored] we are in, but unfortunately most of them have never played competitive football in their life so that would be beyond them.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-v-demons-no-debate-now-20130516-2jo9h.html

Can someone explain to me what the point of this article is - how does this type of journalism amount to anything more than kicking the weak kid while he is down? There is nothing new about this MFC-bashing of course, but it isn't even masquerading as having some sort of point/argument to it, it is purely just a whack.

He spends 850 words to delve no deeper than the obvious, yet pointless, sentiment expressed in the 6-word title .

This is really, really, really starting to get me.

Your problem is that you've started with the assumption that football writing is anything more than fluff pieces, gossip or poison press, I still occasionally make that mistake, but I am getting better. I only occasionally hope to see an in depth report on how the tactical zones have change recently, or what greater rotations add to the game, or whatever. I see them write what the clubs. AFL or players say about those things but very, very rarely do I see a proper write up of pros and cons of them that go deeper than that weeks talking points.

So 500 words on kick the cripple seems to be easier than showing you aren't the smartest man (or Wilson) in the room.

Because they are DEEmoralised Jnr. That's what losing game after game after game does. And, as RR has explained so succintly below, they were told they weren't very good in most things to start with and lacked solid leaders, hence the 2 Jacks appointment by the Coach (with influnece from CS & CC via the rediculous Red & Blue Print). MN made them believe alright. He made them believe they were, in most areas, Shyte!!

What we see on the field is what negative belief does to you. This is a product of the coach. This hasn't quite infiltrated every single player.....yet. Players who have immense pride and professionalism, like the Jones boy, will never go down without an immense fight. But he has maturity, experience and many pre seasons under his belt to assit in whethering and seeing off such storms. Players like Garland, in the mid point of the experience chart, showed some fight up till Sunday, but also showed signs of dropping off for the first time this year.

They are demoralised. BUT they have been there since 2007 and its not all Neeld's fault. They aren't junior footballers they are supposed to be professionals.

Bailey did what you are sort of suggesting. Built up their Gen y esteem gave them, games they didn't deserve, told them they were learning and improving each week, - in short tried to protect them from accountability. LJ and Watts are a testament to that. 186 wasn't caused by Neeld. Neither were the 90 point floggings we got under Bailey (although they were interspersed with 60 point wins strangely enough).

That didn't get us anywhere. So you cant pin the blame enirely on Neeld.

The players effort is shizenhousen. Yes its Neeld's responsibility to get them playing properly. But he can't drop 22 players every week - he has to persevere with some players.

I repeat my loyalty is to the club and its colours and history. The players are but passing minstrels in the show. They are killing my club and I am angry with them.

How many times have we seen players wheeled out after a horrendous loss saying "we were terrible but we are going to turn it around next week" kind of bulltish statements.

So often that they are meaningless. If they were really disappointed they would f***g well do something.

No one can seriously tell me that when 14 of our players have a total of 6 tackles (or thereabouts) they are trying.

Lighten up folks. It's a bit of a history lesson that happens to reflect badly on us.

So what.

The bloke can't be on top of his game every day. Just like us.

There actually is not any gratuitous shots at us. Just the facts ma'am. Unlike c(o)w.

Did anyone read Kennett's fluff piece in the HS today? Utter garbage, nothing new there (what a surprise).

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-v-demons-no-debate-now-20130516-2jo9h.html

Can someone explain to me what the point of this article is - how does this type of journalism amount to anything more than kicking the weak kid while he is down? There is nothing new about this MFC-bashing of course, but it isn't even masquerading as having some sort of point/argument to it, it is purely just a whack.

He spends 850 words to delve no deeper than the obvious, yet pointless, sentiment expressed in the 6-word title .

This is really, really, really starting to get me.

Thanks for the reminder, i forgot

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-v-demons-no-debate-now-20130516-2jo9h.html

Can someone explain to me what the point of this article is - how does this type of journalism amount to anything more than kicking the weak kid while he is down? There is nothing new about this MFC-bashing of course, but it isn't even masquerading as having some sort of point/argument to it, it is purely just a whack.

He spends 850 words to delve no deeper than the obvious, yet pointless, sentiment expressed in the 6-word title .

This is really, really, really starting to get me.

I'm sure it gave the Richmond supporter who reads The Age a phat

I don't mind Rohan Connolly's work. I think (and I say this seriously) that when he called for AFL intervention at Melbourne, he was genuinely disappointed/concerned as to where are at. He doesn't call us pathetic and disgusting, he doesn't make stupid jokes about the snow, he doesn't sneer at what has happened. This article is painful because it's pretty truthful. I remember about 3 years ago in a pub in Carlton, I was talking to a bartender who barracked for Richmond. He commended me on how smart Melbourne were that they bottomed out when they did and that he was worried that when Richmond won the spoon that year, it would be a complete waste of time as the new clubs would take all the plum draft picks.
I would like to bump into that bartender again and see if he still envies me now.

I don't mind Rohan Connolly's work. I think (and I say this seriously) that when he called for AFL intervention at Melbourne, he was genuinely disappointed/concerned as to where are at. He doesn't call us pathetic and disgusting, he doesn't make stupid jokes about the snow, he doesn't sneer at what has happened. This article is painful because it's pretty truthful. I remember about 3 years ago in a pub in Carlton, I was talking to a bartender who barracked for Richmond. He commended me on how smart Melbourne were that they bottomed out when they did and that he was worried that when Richmond won the spoon that year, it would be a complete waste of time as the new clubs would take all the plum draft picks.

I would like to bump into that bartender again and see if he still envies me now.

Agree 100% re Connolly.

A number on here seem to have missed how poor our team is.

Not sure who they watch every week

I don't mind Rohan Connolly's work. I think (and I say this seriously) that when he called for AFL intervention at Melbourne, he was genuinely disappointed/concerned as to where are at. He doesn't call us pathetic and disgusting, he doesn't make stupid jokes about the snow, he doesn't sneer at what has happened. This article is painful because it's pretty truthful. I remember about 3 years ago in a pub in Carlton, I was talking to a bartender who barracked for Richmond. He commended me on how smart Melbourne were that they bottomed out when they did and that he was worried that when Richmond won the spoon that year, it would be a complete waste of time as the new clubs would take all the plum draft picks.

I would like to bump into that bartender again and see if he still envies me now.

Rohan?

No but seriously well said.