Yet collingwood seem to rate Scott Watters and Mark Neeld, did we make a massive mistake?

They're the same guys who pushed out malthouse for nathan buckley yeah?

i'm all for giving him the season, but come season end and nothings changed he must go. My issue is when will the club realise that copy cats don't succeed. Dean Bailey tried to copy geelong,Neeld needs to forget collingwood and come up with fresh ideas. The game changes every year and the successful teams are the innovative ones who come up with their own way of playing. We always look to try and emulate the best rather then beat the best. I want a proven coach but if its not possible just a coach who wont copy and isn't afraid to try something new.

It all makes sense to me now, for the past 6 years we try to copy the successful game plans while the rest of the league has already figured out how to beat it.

I may be completely wrong and tell me if so. But this is to me is how it looks.

Bingo. Innovation is the key. I'm yet to see it from Neeld and never saw it from Bailey. I hope we begin to see it soon otherwise Neeld's had his end.

Hardnut, thaipantsman and a couple of others knew neeld was a dud after the first handful of games. Now people are waking up such as our friend rangerover. It was very obvious very early on in 2012. It was easy to blame the players as it still is. But the players will vote with their attitude towards Saturday nights game. A lack of effort will demonstrate that neeld must be removed immediately. The positive of all this is that the players are very fit. I think they need to just go out and play some freestyle footy for a couple of weeks. Let them get back to the basics like backing their own judgements and using basic instincts and smarts. Moloney wasn't the brightest player in the bunch, but him and jamar were the best clearance duo in the afl.

Neeld should have understood the importance of having wonamirri and Jurrah on our list. Those 2 blokes were the most exciting players we have had since jacovich. He could have been a little more understanding of their background and culture. I am dirty for loosing them.

Really, the only good thing neeld has done is drafted Clarke and got us fitter. The bad things have already been mentioned previously.

I am excited for life without neeld. I love good footy.

Agree with that Range Rover. We were well below average in the preseason.

For mine Neeld's time line of achievements looks a little like this...

Act 1- Subvert the natural order of a footy club. Make two sub 50 game unproven players captain, strip and shame the older players. Neeld hasn't read King Lear. Bye-bye Green, Rivers, Davey, Moloney*.

Act 2 - Alienate the indigenous talent which comes out through the Mifsud affair. Bye bye Wona (walks out), Jurrah (walks out), Davey (would've gone but stuck in a contract), Kelvin Lawrence (walks out).

Act 3 - The silly "not on your life" press conference after round 1 smashing v Bris 2012. Obviously has no idea what went/is wrong. Talks using 'they' instead of 'we'. Obviously not building good trust. Malthouse even starts distancing himself from Neeld.

Act 4 - Unsuccessfully tries to implement the Collingwood boundary line game plan which simply doesn't work and we get slaughtered for a few weeks.

Act 5- Eventually get first win when Essendon miss easy shots on goal and we just pip them. This is Neelds only win (GWS GCFC aside). Somehow it gave him the rest of the season to hack away.

Act 6 - We are terrible all season until it finally ends.

Act 7 - Player exodus. Even life long dees like Moloney have had enough of the culture.

Act 8 - Drafts VFL spuds and mature age players. Hello Rodan, Byrnes, Dawes, Pederson etc.

Act 9 - Throws his hands in the air after Round 1 loss to Port.

Prediction

Act 10 - Loses to GWS and gets sacked along with Schwab.

Gee I would have loved it if we had have continued with Bails for 1 more up and down season then got Malthouse.

*oh they are the same guys who stood up against Schwab before 186. Knifed!!

He was the major part of the culture problem. Pissing on bars, chucking hissy fits. Good riddance. The rest however I could agree with. That said I think when Dawes finally gets on the park he'll be an important get for us.

Getting rid of MN won't be doing anyone any favors. We could bring back Norm Smith and it wouldn't inspire this group of players. Jim Stynes passing couldn't even put a foot up their ar$e..

Yep.

3 posts in and youre already making sense.. you wont last too long around here!

The suggestion of sacking Neeld - is EVERY bit as putrid as the way we played on the weekend..

(welcome btw, DD)

Hardnut, thaipantsman and a couple of others knew neeld was a dud after the first handful of games. Now people are waking up such as our friend rangerover. It was very obvious very early on in 2012. It was easy to blame the players as it still is. But the players will vote with their attitude towards Saturday nights game. A lack of effort will demonstrate that neeld must be removed immediately. The positive of all this is that the players are very fit. I think they need to just go out and play some freestyle footy for a couple of weeks. Let them get back to the basics like backing their own judgements and using basic instincts and smarts. Moloney wasn't the brightest player in the bunch, but him and jamar were the best clearance duo in the afl.

Neeld should have understood the importance of having wonamirri and Jurrah on our list. Those 2 blokes were the most exciting players we have had since jacovich. He could have been a little more understanding of their background and culture. I am dirty for loosing them.

Really, the only good thing neeld has done is drafted Clarke and got us fitter. The bad things have already been mentioned previously.

I am excited for life without neeld. I love good footy.

Oh good lord. I have never heard such rubbish. Any other posters you wish to wee in their pockets?!

Unfortunately, Wonna and Jurrah had greater issues than what AFL footy could deal with, and Neeld has made the right call, in the long run. Take emotion out of it and the right decision was made. The most exciting since Jacovich? Bawhahaha! I'd rather a 10 year rock than a 10 game skipping stone. They were good, short highlight reels.

You may love good footy, but you don't make much sense. It's round 1 mate. Get a grip.

He has the season, he doesn't own the crap that has passed before, on Monday I was 11 weeks, but have calmed down and think he has the season, nothing saved whatsoever to get rid of him now.

Oh good lord. I have never heard such rubbish.

Not been on the site much of late I see ...

We just don't attack the ground like we should. Neeld's very optimistic that our skills are good enough to poke the ball from side to side. It's not, and our defence's positioning and lack of pressure is also appalling. Under Bailey we attacked the MCG from end to end with confidence and everyone could kick goals. A game V Port Adelaide at the G under Bailey would have been a piece of cake. I used to feel like we knew the MCG, at times on Sunday it felt like an away game.

Not been on the site much of late I see ...

Tried not to Bing. Too much emotion, not enough common sense.

We just don't attack the ground like we should. Neeld's very optimistic that our skills are good enough to poke the ball from side to side. It's not, and our defence's positioning and lack of pressure is also appalling. Under Bailey we attacked the MCG from end to end with confidence and everyone could kick goals. A game V Port Adelaide at the G under Bailey would have been a piece of cake. I used to feel like we knew the MCG, at times on Sunday it felt like an away game.

Ah yes. The good ol' days under Bailey. Was that the match where Port did us by 78 pts, 29 pts, 57 pts, 11pts, etc? Don't know what piece of cake you are eating, but I'd be wary of the mud pie cake that smells real bad. FFS.

So... We sack Neeld then what??

Who in their right mind would sacrifice their future coaching prospects and integrity by choosing to coach the Dees?? We are a basket case... as a club we are like a traumatized soul rocking back and forth in the fetal position. Its sad bordering pathetic.

We have a sh!t list. We have quite a number of overpaid sub afl standard players... there's few shining lights so can we really put this all on the coach? Yes, hes built "his team" but is it really?? Its B grade replacing B grade and we expect miracles. We'd have been better stripping it bare and just taking all kids in the draft but thats history now.

Also, Neil Craig is supposed to me mentoring Neeld.... seems to be wasted money. Maybe the money would be better spent on ex AFL players in part time consulting roles such as what Dogs have done with Mooney and Scarlett. Maybe spend the cash on psychologists or hypnotherapists???

We just don't attack the ground like we should. Neeld's very optimistic that our skills are good enough to poke the ball from side to side. It's not, and our defence's positioning and lack of pressure is also appalling. Under Bailey we attacked the MCG from end to end with confidence and everyone could kick goals. A game V Port Adelaide at the G under Bailey would have been a piece of cake. I used to feel like we knew the MCG, at times on Sunday it felt like an away game.

Sounds like you have been eating too much cake NA, we may have attacked under Bailey but we sure as hell didn’t defend.

Unfortunately Bailey’s legacy lives on.

Who in their right mind would sacrifice their future coaching prospects and integrity by choosing to coach the Dees?? We are a basket case... as a club we are like a traumatized soul rocking back and forth in the fetal position. Its sad bordering pathetic.

We have a sh!t list. We have quite a number of overpaid sub afl standard players... there's few shining lights so can we really put this all on the coach? Yes, hes built "his team" but is it really?? Its B grade replacing B grade and we expect miracles. We'd have been better stripping it bare and just taking all kids in the draft but thats history now.

The first part of your quote is exactly what people were saying about Port before Hinkley eventually got the job - the right Coach can make improvements straight away. Look at the difference in the Crows from 2011 to 2012. Even in the most difficult cases (like the Bulldogs right now) it can take 12 months to see improvement, but they are clearly going in the right direction.

It's easy to use strong words and huff and puff when things are going bad. It’s easy to say things like the solution is to sack everyone, belt the players etc. This is what was said though Daniher's era, then Baileys, now Neeld's....what’s the pattern? Getting rid of everyone involved hasn't fixed it in the past. It makes people feel better for a while, but it doesn't fix it.

This club has a culture problem. This culture is in every act, every word, every interaction within the club. It isn't fixed by rotating people though it every 3-5 years. It breaks people down.

3 years ago James Frawley was, in my opinion, our best player. I reckon I could count on one hand the amount of times he was beaten in a one on one contest for the season. When his opponent did take a mark inside 50 and it was due to a lack of midfield pressure or another bloke not giving him a chop out (ie not really his fault), he was that dirty on himself. He hated anyone getting an inch on him. Fast forward to 10 minutes into round 1 2013, he’s jogging at the ball not giving a stuff that his opponent is hell bent on the ball. Now some people will automatically assign that act to something to do with the coach. For me it’s the culture getting him. It’s being around others that accept mediocrity, accept not putting in all you’ve got, and so on for so long it’s finally infiltrated him.

Now Neeld seems to be on a path to rectifying this. He’s reversed training attitudes and weeded out some of the players who were most ‘sick’ with the culture in the space of a year. The next step is seeing this on the field.

It's easy to use strong words and huff and puff when things are going bad. It’s easy to say things like the solution is to sack everyone, belt the players etc. This is what was said though Daniher's era, then Baileys, now Neeld's....what’s the pattern? Getting rid of everyone involved hasn't fixed it in the past. It makes people feel better for a while, but it doesn't fix it.

This club has a culture problem. This culture is in every act, every word, every interaction within the club. It isn't fixed by rotating people though it every 3-5 years. It breaks people down.

3 years ago James Frawley was, in my opinion, our best player. I reckon I could count on one hand the amount of times he was beaten in a one on one contest for the season. When his opponent did take a mark inside 50 and it was due to a lack of midfield pressure or another bloke not giving him a chop out (ie not really his fault), he was that dirty on himself. He hated anyone getting an inch on him. Fast forward to 10 minutes into round 1 2013, he’s jogging at the ball not giving a stuff that his opponent is hell bent on the ball. Now some people will automatically assign that act to something to do with the coach. For me it’s the culture getting him. It’s being around others that accept mediocrity, accept not putting in all you’ve got, and so on for so long it’s finally infiltrated him.

Now Neeld seems to be on a path to rectifying this. He’s reversed training attitudes and weeded out some of the players who were most ‘sick’ with the culture in the space of a year. The next step is seeing this on the field.

I agree with this.

People look back on the Bailey years with revisionism that would make politicians blush.

I think that Neeld took the approach that the club is rotten, and he is going to fix it by banking on youth. He has culled the list and will continue to do so.

The culture of a club that hasd been perennially unsuccessful does not change overnight.

I have some serious reservations about Neeld as a coach - who wouldn't given the results. But I do know that it's not like he has trodden into Heaven with muddy boots and ruined this magnificent thing that was building. We were on a road to nowhere before. Now we are on a new road, destination unknown.

Jury is still on MN coaching ability, but if we are so bad with our culture we need to fix it. Is it a tough job? Well he seems tough enough. Lost the players? They are supposed to be professional. Trouble at the top? Maybe not be press hungry, but they seem competent. Strip the club back to the bones? I think we have to. We will get it right (pray).

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-coach-mark-neeld-outlines-how-he-picked-up-his-players-following-the-round-1-disaster/story-fndv8pdq-1226612

Calm down and give the man the time, that was promised.

Mark Thompson had seven 10 goal losses in 2003, a couple of seasons in, everyone was calling for his head as they instituted a no DH policy in both the team and the club, and they started from a better position than we did. Give Neeld time (or just go and shoot yourself).

Mark Thompson had seven 10 goal losses in 2003, a couple of seasons in, everyone was calling for his head as they instituted a no DH policy in both the team and the club, and they started from a better position than we did. Give Neeld time (or just go and shoot yourself).

but that's exactl what everyone said early in Bailey's tenure when doubts were raised. 'Give him some time' didn't pan out there did it

Melbourne coach Mark Neeld outlines how he picked up his players following the Round 1 disaster.

From Mark Neeld

"I hate kicking down the line, it's slow and boring."

So why did we hug the boundary and kick it down line for most/all of our games last year? It just doesn't make sense and as usual, we have a journo who fails to ask the obvious follow up questions.

Many of us assumed that Mark had brought the Collingwood boundary hugging style to our club and now we find out that that was never the case. Or it might have been and Mark has completely changed his mind. Or the players completely ignored his instructions to play through the corridor and just headed for the boundary just about every single time.

Mighty confusing comment whichever way you try and analyse it.

Mark Thompson had seven 10 goal losses in 2003, a couple of seasons in, everyone was calling for his head as they instituted a no DH policy in both the team and the club, and they started from a better position than we did. Give Neeld time (or just go and shoot yourself).

Big changes to the top heads not long after helped him along.

Big changes to the top heads not long after helped him along.

Yes it did Costa was part of that success, this is what I meant by 'a no DH policy in both the team and the club' but MT spent a few years in the gun at Geelong while he turned it around, there was a 12 goal thrashing by Hawthorn that almost sank him.

C&B

I can't argue because I don't know, MN could be a waste of time, but time is what you have to give to see, we don't have conclusive proof. My point is we don't know any better than Geelong did, when by the skin of its teeth, it decided to let Thompson stay.

We cannot let our frustration of 49 years since our last flag drop onto Neeld, game one into his new team with a new plan. All-though I have to say I'm not a fan of the zone defense at the moment.

I agree with this, but ultimately it is the coaches responsibility to create an environment and a culture that in turn will deliver the mindset, the desire and self-belief required to regularly win games of AFL football.

That's great. Thanks for that concise summation.

But please tell us how long it takes to create such a culture?

And can you also tell us what other amazing coach has taken a club with an exceptionally poor culture (as MFC has, as we are endlessly told) and eradicated it after 1 season?

Yes it did Costa was part of that success, this is what I meant by 'a no DH policy in both the team and the club' but MT spent a few years in the gun at Geelong while he turned it around, there was a 12 goal thrashing by Hawthorn that almost sank him.

C&B

I can't argue because I don't know, MN could be a waste of time, but time is what you have to give to see, we don't have conclusive proof. My point is we don't know any better than Geelong did, when by the skin of its teeth, it decided to let Thompson stay.

We cannot let our frustration of 49 years since our last flag drop onto Neeld, game one into his new team with a new plan. All-though I have to say I'm not a fan of the zone defense at the moment.

You might have been please to hear Neeld during the week say the we do not employ a zone defense, in spite of how it looked on Sunday.