Jordie McKenzie

[nutbean 8,837]

Jordies real worth will only unfold when our midfield improves - I dont think he will ever be our number one go to midfielder but as your 3rd midfielder getting clearances he could prove his worth. He needs to be 1st in the chain which is his strength not last. He needs to be giving it off to a finisher.And what is required is instant spread the minute we get the ball - even if his next option is only half a metre clear he needs that option. Its a bit like criticising our kick outs from full back - the kicker is not the problem - it is the complete lack of movement and clear options that is the undoing of us.

Jordies kicking is not up to it but it is not too hard to imagine him progressing to sitting in a Carlton midfield setup with Judd and Murphy - getting the first clearance and handing it off to those two who make extraction look easy.

He actually reminds me of an early Cameron Ling (not just the hair) who was definitely behind your Abletts and Bartels but he came to the fore by becoming more damaging because of him getting some loose ball due to the concentration on the more credentialled midfielders. Lings disposal improved as Geelongs midfield did. It is amazing what a little less pressure and a few more options can do for your disposal.

[rpfc 27,574]

RP,

I would be inclined to start one of our mature recruits ahead of Jordie against Port in round 1 if his form doesn't significantly improve in next weeks hitout. Wouldn't you?

Yes he is in the leadership group and his prep and attitude are of the highest standard, (which is why he got a gig in the LG), But how about Matt Jones for one?

As everyone knows we are still a developing side and by no means do we have a solid 22 that can be reliable. Jordie's decision making and kicking can be atrocious.

There are plenty of options if we were to leave Jordie out of the best 22.

Give me another 4 names and Jordie is out.

BTW, Matt Jones?

He is an unkown at AFL level, we can play our mature blokes (I hope we do) but there is nothing to say that they will not be just as poor with kicking and decision making.

We are not at a stage where we can overlook attitude and application, in fact, we should cherish those ideals.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Jordies real worth will only unfold when our midfield improves - I dont think he will ever be our number one go to midfielder but as your 3rd midfielder getting clearances he could prove his worth. He needs to be 1st in the chain which is his strength not last. He needs to be giving it off to a finisher.And what is required is instant spread the minute we get the ball - even if his next option is only half a metre clear he needs that option. Its a bit like criticising our kick outs from full back - the kicker is not the problem - it is the complete lack of movement and clear options that is the undoing of us.

Jordies kicking is not up to it but it is not too hard to imagine him progressing to sitting in a Carlton midfield setup with Judd and Murphy - getting the first clearance and handing it off to those two who make extraction look easy.

He actually reminds me of an early Cameron Ling (not just the hair) who was definitely behind your Abletts and Bartels but he came to the fore by becoming more damaging because of him getting some loose ball due to the concentration on the more credentialled midfielders. Lings disposal improved as Geelongs midfield did. It is amazing what a little less pressure and a few more options can do for your disposal.

Interesting point, however I don't think reading the play/smart running is one of Jordie's strengths either. He is a kamikaze style mid who dives for a loose ball or an opponent in possession. Whilst none of our mids quite have his kamikaze attitude (except Viney from what I've seen), we still have a bunch of mids who can win the contested ball just as

well as he can, can read the play better, are smarter and can use the ball better.

We have developed bad habits as a side. Too many get sucked in to the contest. Not enough trust. Not enough spread. etc, etc. Jordie's kicking and decision making won't improve much because it does not come natural to him. Key word is 'much.'

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

This is one of the perpetuating myths on this board (a bit like the Joel Mac, 73% eff last weekend, silence now)...... yes I agree that Jordie's kicking is not the best in the world, but I could only see one poor kick at Etihad at the start of the NAB cup, a lot of the time his disposals are under extreme heat, I can live with the mistakes for everything else he brings to the team.

He actually reminds me more of Mitch Robinson, every Carlton player and supporter loves him in the team for what he brings but some of his clangers are outrageous, but he is like Jordie if he stuffs up he is straight after the ball to try and fix it up

Edited March 6, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[Hannibal 5,814]

This is one of the perpetuating myths on this board (a bit like the Joel Mac, 73% eff last weekend, silence now)...... yes I agree that Jordie's kicking is not the best in the world, but I could only see one poor kick at Etihad at the start of the NAB cup, a lot of the time his disposals are under extreme heat, I can live with the mistakes for everything else he brings to the team.

He actually reminds me more of Mitch Robinson, every Carlton player and supporter loves him in the team for what he brings but some of his clangers are outrageous, but he is like Jordie if he stuffs up he is straight after the ball to try and fix it up

You must rack your brain why we're not a top 4 side. All of our players are just so damn good.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Give me another 4 names and Jordie is out.

BTW, Matt Jones?

He is an unkown at AFL level, we can play our mature blokes (I hope we do) but there is nothing to say that they will not be just as poor with kicking and decision making.

We are not at a stage where we can overlook attitude and application, in fact, we should cherish those ideals.

Viney, N Jones, Grimes

Trengove, Magner, Sylvia

There's six for you. I'd be more than happy to start either of those two groups of mids. Why? Because they are all more versatile.

Rp, I beg to differ when it comes to judging the attributes of some of our mature recruits. Rodan, Matt Jones and Kent all have mature bodies, I have seen them win contested ball and it's clear to me their

decision making and footskills are better than that of Jordie McKenzie's.

I don't care that they haven't played an 'AFL' game. Who are we kidding here, it's not as if we are risking playing Simon Godfrey ahead of Gary Ablett is it? What is your obsession with keeping Jordie in? We have nothing to lose as a football side and playing a Matt Jones, Kent or Rodan ahead

of him will do absolutely nothing to the score board in my eyes. In fact, it will create a more even and competitive training and culture and hopefully standards will go up a notch.

Now remember, I am saying this all on the back of a Nab cup game in which Jordie made many errors with his decision making, kicking and handballing and I want to stress that if those areas in his game don't significantly improve in next weekends hitout against the Saints, I would wholly endorse giving one

of our mature-aged recruits a gig in round 1 ahead of Jordie. (Providing they also put on a solid display).

Edited March 6, 2013 by stevethemanjordan

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

This is one of the perpetuating myths on this board (a bit like the Joel Mac, 73% eff last weekend, silence now)...... yes I agree that Jordie's kicking is not the best in the world, but I could only see one poor kick at Etihad at the start of the NAB cup, a lot of the time his disposals are under extreme heat, I can live with the mistakes for everything else he brings to the team.

He actually reminds me more of Mitch Robinson, every Carlton player and supporter loves him in the team for what he brings but some of his clangers are outrageous, but he is like Jordie if he stuffs up he is straight after the ball to try and fix it up

I would be more than happy to re-watch the North game and show you how many silly mistakes Jordie made. It seems you enjoy watching stats, I enjoy watching the game.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

I would be more than happy to re-watch the North game and show you how many silly mistakes Jordie made. It seems you enjoy watching stats, I enjoy watching the game.

Sorry didn't realise there were supporters who just went along to pick out the mistakes and analyse, as I have said before, and this includes BH, if you think the team and the players that are in it are crap why support? latent masochism, the constant carping is tiresome......sorry BH one of the plebs standing up to you again, know you don't like it Edited March 6, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[nutbean 8,837]

Interesting point, however I don't think reading the play/smart running is one of Jordie's strengths either. He is a kamikaze style mid who dives for a loose ball or an opponent in possession. Whilst none of our mids quite have his kamikaze attitude (except Viney from what I've seen), we still have a bunch of mids who can win the contested ball just as

well as he can, can read the play better, are smarter and can use the ball better.

We have developed bad habits as a side. Too many get sucked in to the contest. Not enough trust. Not enough spread. etc, etc. Jordie's kicking and decision making won't improve much because it does not come natural to him. Key word is 'much.'

I think the key is we need two midfielders to step up to elite. That wont be Jordie or the likes of Magner but what will happen is they will improve and be better contributors on the coat tails of the "stars". The closest we have to elite is Jones and he has a waaay to go. I am not "married" to Jordie being in the team but the good teams have the likes of Swan and Pendles and they bring their second stringers into the game. I see Jordies limitations but at this stage I see limitations with all the midfielders.

Edited March 6, 2013 by nutbean

[nutbean 8,837]

Sorry didn't realise there were supporters who just went along to pick out the mistakes and analyse, as I have said before, and this includes BH, if you think the team and the players that are in it are crap why support? latent masochism, the constant carping is tiresome......sorry BH one of the plebs standing up to you again, know you don't like it

I dont go to pick out mistakes and I support the team through thick and thin but as it stands now I think we need some realism and understand that our midfield in particular is thin. Whilst I dont like to think of players as crap can you point me to a less credentialled midfield than ours ?

[old dee 22,945]

I think the key is we need two midfielders to step up to elite. That wont be Jordie or the likes of Magner but what will happen is they will improve and be better contributors on the coat tails of the "stars". The closest we have to elite is Jones and he has a waaay to go. I am not "married" to Jordie being in the team but the good teams have the likes of Swan and Pendles and they bring their second stringers into the game. I see Jordies limitations but at this stage I see limitations with all the midfielders.

It has been said before nutbean

When we have a good midfield JM will struggle to get a game.

He will start in round 1

IMO sad but true.

[old dee 22,945]

I dont go to pick out mistakes and I support the team through thick and thin but as it stands now I think we need some realism and understand that our midfield in particular is thin. Whilst I dont like to think of players as crap can you point me to a less credentialled midfield than ours ?

No

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Sorry didn't realise there were supporters who just went along to pick out the mistakes and analyse, as I have said before, and this includes BH, if you think the team and the players that are in it are crap why support? latent masochism, the constant carping is tiresome......sorry BH one of the plebs standing up to you again, know you don't like it

No no, I'll just show you what you clearly missed in the game that day.

Satyriconhome, the exact same could be said toward your type who continuously pump up anyone or anything to do with the MFC. I could ask you what you're doing on a forum like this in which people are bound to disagree with you. I'm happy for you to disagree with what I say, but I'm also willing to show you some things that I believe you missed in that game.

I love the club. There, I said it.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I think the key is we need two midfielders to step up to elite. That wont be Jordie or the likes of Magner but what will happen is they will improve and be better contributors on the coat tails of the "stars". The closest we have to elite is Jones and he has a waaay to go. I am not "married" to Jordie being in the team but the good teams have the likes of Swan and Pendles and they bring their second stringers into the game. I see Jordies limitations but at this stage I see limitations with all the midfielders.

Fair call.

[The Chazz 4,077]

It has been said before nutbean

When we have a good midfield JM will struggle to get a game.

He will start in round 1

IMO sad but true.

I don't think it's that sad Old. Jordie looks to me that he would be a classic finals footballer. Loves the scrap, runs until the final siren, and doesn't get flustered by the occasion. For me, I think we can afford to carry the kicking errors given what else he brings to the team.

I laughed at the comment about how Jordie wouldn't get a game in a top team so we should look for someone to replace him. If we went in with that attitude at team selection, we'd have about 5 players playing each week.

[old dee 22,945]

I don't think it's that sad Old. Jordie looks to me that he would be a classic finals footballer. Loves the scrap, runs until the final siren, and doesn't get flustered by the occasion. For me, I think we can afford to carry the kicking errors given what else he brings to the team.

I laughed at the comment about how Jordie wouldn't get a game in a top team so we should look for someone to replace him. If we went in with that attitude at team selection, we'd have about 5 players playing each week.

We are going to disagree on this one billy, I still think it is sad that we have to play a guy that is a very poor kick in our mid field.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We are going to disagree on this one billy, I still think it is sad that we have to play a guy that is a very poor kick in our mid field.

This year, if Jordie can do more consistently what he did to Goddard last year, then he is in the top 5 of "first picked".

For anyone that thinks we can't afford to have him in the team, just watch that game again. But as I said, consistently is the key, which will continue to improve under the current guidance.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

No no, I'll just show you what you clearly missed in the game that day.

Satyriconhome, the exact same could be said toward your type who continuously pump up anyone or anything to do with the MFC. I could ask you what you're doing on a forum like this in which people are bound to disagree with you. I'm happy for you to disagree with what I say, but I'm also willing to show you some things that I believe you missed in that game.

I love the club. There, I said it.

I don't pump up the team, I even had a good natured go at Luna Park the day after with Jordie, he agreed actually it was a terrible decision the turn over kick, I just find it rather destructive if you continually focus on the negative...it is just footy after all......I prefer to focus on the positive...I come onto the forum to maybe give the other side.....and to annoy BH...there I've said it

[rpfc 27,574]

stmj, we have nothing but limited footballers.

Jordie is the most dedicated of the limited footballers.

I am just as flummoxed with your attitude as you are with mine - we are not in a position to just throw these mature age players or kids ahead of Jordie on absolutley no formline.

There are reasons he has won the Coaches Award three years running.

Sometimes, placing an importance on application, toughness, and attitude will outweigh deficiencies in skill and decision making.

We are not good enough to just waive away the qualities of Jordie McKenzie in favour of the next unknown quantity.

I am not saying we don't have to move past him, or that he doesn't have to improve, I am saying that if his qualities are replicated in other players because we place them in high regard then that will help our young players become what we require them to be.

[Nasher 33,133]

The attitude than "unknown" would be better than Jordie is laughable. He'll be replaced with superior skilled players in time, but as others have already said it won't be this year. When he goes it will be because he's squeezed out, not because the coaches (who love him) decide on a whim that his kicking isn't good enough.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sorry didn't realise there were supporters who just went along to pick out the mistakes and analyse, as I have said before, and this includes BH, if you think the team and the players that are in it are crap why support? latent masochism, the constant carping is tiresome......sorry BH one of the plebs standing up to you again, know you don't like it

You're not a pleb, you're merely a football simpleton. But you love the game and the club, so good luck to you.

Just because I know we've been absolutely pathetic with rank mediocre players doesn't mean that I don't support the club, or live in hope we'll improve. I go to training because I'm interested and emotionally invested in the club, but that doesn't mean that I can't call it as I see it. And I'll call it warts and all. Of course I won't always be right. In fact, I'm often wrong. And I'm usually wrong on the positive side. Plenty of players have been even worse than I thought. You know, "I knew they were bad, but not this bad". Many of the players you rate, or admire have been utterly ill-equipped to handle themselves in a tough AFL competition. It's just the way it is.

Thankfully the club isn't consigned to being crap forever. But I doubt you'll recognise the difference. You live in a football bubble. At least you're always able to think well of the players that represent the club. I don't share your giddy emotional state.

[Demonsterative 2,006]

stmj, we have nothing but limited footballers.

Jordie is the most dedicated of the limited footballers.

I am just as flummoxed with your attitude as you are with mine - we are not in a position to just throw these mature age players or kids ahead of Jordie on absolutley no formline.

There are reasons he has won the Coaches Award three years running.

Sometimes, placing an importance on application, toughness, and attitude will outweigh deficiencies in skill and decision making.

We are not good enough to just waive away the qualities of Jordie McKenzie in favour of the next unknown quantity.

I am not saying we don't have to move past him, or that he doesn't have to improve, I am saying that if his qualities are replicated in other players because we place them in high regard then that will help our young players become what we require them to be.

Its just like Grade One. Show the apptitute and dedication therefore you pass and go through to the next grade. Doesnt matter that you cant read, write or are not toilet trained.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

You're not a pleb, you're merely a football simpleton. But you love the game and the club, so good luck to you.

Just because I know we've been absolutely pathetic with rank mediocre players doesn't mean that I don't support the club, or live in hope we'll improve. I go to training because I'm interested and emotionally invested in the club, but that doesn't mean that I can't call it as I see it. And I'll call it warts and all. Of course I won't always be right. In fact, I'm often wrong. And I'm usually wrong on the positive side. Plenty of players have been even worse than I thought. You know, "I knew they were bad, but not this bad". Many of the players you rate, or admire have been utterly ill-equipped to handle themselves in a tough AFL competition. It's just the way it is.

Thankfully the club isn't consigned to being crap forever. But I doubt you'll recognise the difference. You live in a football bubble. At least you're always able to think well of the players that represent the club. I don't share your giddy emotional state.

"Ben-Hur witnesses the

crucifixion of Jesus.

and tells Esther that he heard

Jesus talk of forgiveness

while on the cross, and says

"I felt His voice take the

sword out of my hand."

I like my giddy state, although I think it's age related, along with the hot flushes and the urge to shoplift.

I also call it as I see it, just not as bluntly, but I have never played the game at AFL level so would have no idea what it is like to make a decision at high speed with a 90Kg monster hanging all over me...if I did I would probably make mistakes now and again, but use my tenacity, guts, fitness, courage etc to try and make up for any I did make

[old dee 22,945]

"Ben-Hur witnesses the

crucifixion of Jesus.

and tells Esther that he heard

Jesus talk of forgiveness

while on the cross, and says

"I felt His voice take the

sword out of my hand."

I like my giddy state, although I think it's age related, along with the hot flushes and the urge to shoplift.

I also call it as I see it, just not as bluntly, but I have never played the game at AFL level so would have no idea what it is like to make a decision at high speed with a 90Kg monster hanging all over me...if I did I would probably make mistakes now and again, but use my tenacity, guts, fitness, courage etc to try and make up for any I did make

Well I have learnt something today satyriconhome.

Thank you

[Hannibal 5,814]

... I have never played the game at AFL level so would have no idea what it is like to make a decision at high speed with a 90Kg monster hanging all over me...if I did I would probably make mistakes now and again, but use my tenacity, guts, fitness, courage etc to try and make up for any I did make

No-one said it was for the faint of heart, but it's the same for all 18 clubs. Our club is regularly bottom 4 for a reason. One day it may dawn on you that we've had far too many "not quite rights".

Maybe not.