AFL investigation

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

There were a few posters who "railed" against hazy and America et al for "showing dissent" but many others, myself included, "railed" against them because they were talking crap. Those who did so usually gave reasons for this belief, which was predominantly based on the fact that hazy and America's posts are often made up of agenda based ad hominem attacks without evidence or proof of their allegations.

Consequently, I think your post is way off the mark and gives them far more credibility than they deserve.

WJ, your selective and out of context quoting of me re: Don McLardy demonstrates that you are being willfully inaccurate.

I am not surprised that you have that quote at your fingertips as it came shortly after I completely embarrassed you with a reasoned argument that was based on evidence. It was a fairly typical example of my writing.

By contrast and putting the simple insults aside, most of the criticism leveled at me by you and others has consisted of baseless accusations of "having an agenda". Such accusations are typically irrelevant, meaningless, and impossible to prove or disprove.

Minority opinions are not welcomed on this forum, it is getting worse and the double standard is clear. Ask yourself why people are still asking Fan questions about his status as a former mod, whilst no-one questions the appropriateness of your continued personal attacks on me, in my absence, as an Admin.

It is a shame what is happening to Fan. He has always been a very civilized and moderate poster in my opinion. I daresay I was a more civilized and moderate poster before I was subjected to personal attacks after every post. I still like to think I hold myself to a higher standard than my detractors though - including you.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

WJ, your selective and out of context quoting of me re: Don McLardy demonstrates that you are being willfully inaccurate.

I am not surprised that you have that quote at your fingertips as it came shortly after I completely embarrassed you with a reasoned argument that was based on evidence. It was a fairly typical example of my writing.

By contrast and putting the simple insults aside, most of the criticism leveled at me by you and others has consisted of baseless accusations of "having an agenda". Such accusations are typically irrelevant, meaningless, and impossible to prove or disprove.

Minority opinions are not welcomed on this forum, it is getting worse and the double standard is clear. Ask yourself why people are still asking Fan questions about his status as a former mod, whilst no-one questions the appropriateness of your continued personal attacks on me, in my absence, as an Admin.

It is a shame what is happening to Fan. He has always been a very civilized and moderate poster in my opinion. I daresay I was a more civilized and moderate poster before I was subjected to personal attacks after every post. I still like to think I hold myself to a higher standard than my detractors though - including you.

Get over yourself, you're not that important, no one is out to get you, you post people respond, that's how it works. If you don't like adverse reactions to your posts, don't post or don't read the responses.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The irony surely is it won't/can't stop list management. All it does is remove the added bonus of a high draft pick. If said team wants to experiment or send players to rehab early or whatever then it still will. In fact now its free to without innuendo of tanking attached. If a team wants to start looking early at season X+1 whilst still in season X and make adjustments ' for such what's to stop it? It won't after all be doing so for the 'prize' pick ! All that will result is a going back to pre draft days. I predict that in order to facilitate such and remove any carrots or idea you're still trying to finish low/last to get an early pick the AFL will adopt ,what many already suggest, is a form or raffle. Tanking 0 List Management 1

I like the Idea of the interstate teams getting to name a? player, from the clubs Homestate before the draft is held. This also helps keep homegrown top talent in homestate. good for footy IMO.

.....So, to extend that, lets have each team allowed one pick from they're homestate,, or zone within that homestate,, of which they develop that zone... Pre draft...

then hold the draft via the said 'Weighted Raffle' of the teams Outside the Top 8...

this IMO helps the teams incentive to develop talent from within their development zone,,, it keeps many homegrown Elite talents, not only home, but also in the kids region, & on the development Clubs list.

*Incentive to watch & develop the zone.

*Incentive to keep playing out seasons.

*Keeping more of the Elite talent in their State of Origin.

[Sir Why You Little 36,747]

Hazy you did say "Mclardy does not know his ass from his elbow".

Still waiting for you to back that up with some facts or an alternative.

It is quite simple....

[old55 23,053]

The quote is:

"He goes to quite an extent to say that, 'I have been lined up by certain people at the club, these are the same people who lined me up to move sideways from football manager', to what he is doing now.

I still don't see how this is inconsistent with these people being former employees.

The people that 'lined him up to move sideways' obviously were at the club in 2011 and they may have had issues with CC. But just because CC was moved on from footy manager at the end of 2011 doesn't mean that the people that 'lined him up' had to still be at the club in 2012 (or are still there currently). It's entirely possible that certain people who left at the end of 2011 were the ones who 'lined him up' and are the same people being interviewed as part of the current investigation.

This is all assuming the quote has been accurately reported. Given it comes from someone who read the report (rather than CC himself), has been passed on and re-written by a journalist at a paper that has had no problem getting certain facts wrong and sensationalising other aspects in their coverage of this story, I'm not 100% confident that that quote is even accurate.

Oh come on Scoop - former employers like who had the swing to line up CC for a move sideways? Flack, Prendergast, the doctors, the fitness guys? The Board and the CEO make those decisions and would not have been influenced by departing disgruntled employees.

Believe me, as I posted, I'd like to read it that way - but I'm struggling to.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Hazy you did say "Mclardy does not know his ass from his elbow"

Still waiting for you to back that up with some facts or an alternative.

It is quite simple....

Yes, I did. I thought it was a particularly poor example for WJ to use because I made that statement to illustrate the fact that a poster was not addressing the substance of my posts and was merely spouting off a glib one-liner. Can you see the irony?

Why don't you go back to that thread and read the many well-supported, comprehensive replies I gave to questions and arguments posted by you and others. I was far more indulgent with my responses than you ever were and 12 pages in and numerous personal attacks (countenanced by Admin WJ) later it is hardly surprising that I grew tired of the whole thing.

Although it was a glib one-liner that was made to illustrate the poor standard of debate by others on the issue, I stand by my statement that Don McLardy has been an incompetent "President". Perhaps if you start a thread spelling out why you think he has been such a great performer, I might even reply. Then again, I might not bother because I don't owe you my continued indulgence and, as RobbieF points out, I don't have to post. As a starting point and given that it is relevant to this thread, why not ask yourself what Don knew about the tanking. He was either ignorant and therefore incompetent or just plain incompetent.

I would normally apologize for the derailment of the thread at this point but given that Admin WJ has been primarily responsible, I can only assume that he officially approves and that such an apology would not be appropriate.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Get over yourself, you're not that important, no one is out to get you, you post people respond, that's how it works. If you don't like adverse reactions to your posts, don't post or don't read the responses.

Same to you.

[mjt 640]

Get over yourself, you're not that important, no one is out to get you, you post people respond, that's how it works. If you don't like adverse reactions to your posts, don't post or don't read the responses.

Your the worst for adverse reactions to posts, your a joke, AND you just proved that,.

[Whispering_Jack 29,359]

WJ, your selective and out of context quoting of me re: Don McLardy demonstrates that you are being willfully inaccurate.

I am not surprised that you have that quote at your fingertips as it came shortly after I completely embarrassed you with http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31358-schwab-re-signs-for-three-years/?p=619026'>a reasoned argument that was based on evidence. It was a fairly typical example of my writing.

By contrast and putting the simple insults aside, most of the criticism leveled at me by you and others has consisted of baseless accusations of "having an agenda". Such accusations are typically irrelevant, meaningless, and impossible to prove or disprove.

Minority opinions are not welcomed on this forum, it is getting worse and the double standard is clear. Ask yourself why people are still asking Fan questions about his status as a former mod, whilst no-one questions the appropriateness of your continued personal attacks on me, in my absence, as an Admin.

It is a shame what is happening to Fan. He has always been a very civilized and moderate poster in my opinion. I daresay I was a more civilized and moderate poster before I was subjected to personal attacks after every post. I still like to think I hold myself to a higher standard than my detractors though - including you.

Thanks for reminding me of that Hazy. The only thing I don't recall is the embarrassment you supposedly subjected me to. IIRC my face didn't deviate from its normal pale pink let alone turn the shade of crimson that Schwab used for our guernseys in 2012.

Moreover, the embarrassment was, and remains, all yours. I was arguing at the time that it was important while the club was at such a low ebb for there to be unity. It went along these lines:-

You missed the point. Nothing I wrote detracts from the fact that club officials need to be accountable and that's a given.

The fact is that despite heavy scrutiny and a strong campaign by his detractors in both the media and among some who call themselves supporters of the club, Cam has the support of the Board and apparently the endorsement of the AFL and accordingly, has been appointed as CEO for the next three years.

He now needs to be allowed to do his job if we're going to succeed at our core business which is to ultimately produce a successful football team.

My point is that we need a unified club and strong leadership at the top to move forward and make that happen.

That comment came in the early days of the tanking enquiry and all that which has followed since has only strengthened my conviction in this regard.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Thanks for reminding me of that Hazy. The only thing I don't recall is the embarrassment you supposedly subjected me to. IIRC my face didn't deviate from its normal pale pink let alone turn the shade of crimson that Schwab used for our guernseys in 2012. Moreover, the embarrassment was, and remains, all yours. I was arguing at the time that it was important while the club was at such a low ebb for there to be unity. It went along these lines:- That comment came in the early days of the tanking enquiry and all that which has followed since has only strengthened my conviction in this regard.

Why not ask your mate CC about unity? I remain loyal to the club.

edit: I'm looking forward to some of that strong leadership at the top by the way. I haven't seen much of it over the last few years.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[beelzebub 23,254]

How's your ticket going for the AGM Hazy? Got you little group ready ?

[Whispering_Jack 29,359]

Why not ask your mate CC about unity? I remain loyal to the club.

edit: I'm looking forward to some of that strong leadership at the top by the way. I haven't seen much of it over the last few years.

I think you left out this symbol () after your first sentence. I can edit it in if you like.

I'm glad you're looking forward to strong leadership because we are going to need it in the aftermath of the rubbish that's been going on for the last 6 months.

[mjt 640]

How's your ticket going for the AGM Hazy? Got you little group ready ?

He has a gripe with the board, theres 35,000 members, plenty think like Hazy, theres only a few hundred people that are members of this board, were under a putrid investigation by the AFL , it seems the majority on this board thinks everything is rosy, OUR brand is trashed, i repeat OUR brand is trashed, just because people dont like CS or CC doesnt mean there running for the board, by the way if you mentioned those 2 names in a Fremantle pub you would be leaving in an Ambulance.

[John Crow Batty 8,831]

Why not ask your mate CC about unity? I remain loyal to the club.

edit: I'm looking forward to some of that strong leadership at the top by the way. I haven't seen much of it over the last few years.

Hazy, why do you bother wasting your time with arguments? Just make your point and move on. This is not a forum for balanced rational arguments. I used to be a very moderate benign poster until I stated my belief that TS was gone in early in 2011. Then I copped a barrage from the idiots that mostly average 20 post a day here and dominate every discussion. We all know who they are. There is no way you can present and argue a diverse opinion with them. Their heads are truly buried in concrete. I got flamed and provoked into retaliating. Hence suspended a few times. Now I don't bother. I say what I have to and move on and don't argue with them. Only answer rational replies. Luckily some of them have now blocked me(orchestrated by rpfc) because I stated my opinions forcefully and ignored their abuse which is now a relief as I don't have to put up with their diatribe.

Edited January 16, 2013 by america de cali

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

I'm glad you're looking forward to strong leadership because we are going to need it in the aftermath of the rubbish that's been going on for the last 6 months.

Thanks WJ. While your here, any comment on the personal attacks/double standards/minority opinions/irony of your selective quote stuff? You know - the substance of my reply?

I'd hate to think that it's suddenly irrelevant or not worth your while now that you're not just flinging accusations in my absense.

You could even go back to that old thread you dredged up (the one you wanted to close) and answer some of the many questions that you avoided.

[John Crow Batty 8,831]

He has a gripe with the board, theres 35,000 members, plenty think like Hazy, theres only a few hundred people that are members of this board, were under a putrid investigation by the AFL , it seems the majority on this board thinks everything is rosy, OUR brand is trashed, i repeat OUR brand is trashed, just because people dont like CS or CC doesnt mean there running for the board, by the way if you mentioned those 2 names in a Fremantle pub you would be leaving in an Ambulance.

CC and CS have trashed our brand.

[daisycutter 29,441]

Hey WJ, I hope none of this is distracting you from recovering the missing audio tape

I have great confidence you and redleg will bring home the bacon

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Hazy, why do you bother wasting your time with arguments? Just make your point and move on. This is not a forum for balanced arguments. I used to be a very moderate benign poster until I stated my belief that TS was gone in early in 2011. Then I copped a barrage from the idiots that mostly average 20 post a day here. We all know who they are. There is no way you can present and argue a diverse opinion with them. Their heads are truly buried in concrete. I got flamed and provoked into retaliating. Hence suspended a few times. Now I don't bother. I say what I have to and move on and don't argue with them. Only answer rational replies. Luckily some of them have now blocked me(orchestrated by rpfc) because I stated my opinions forcefully and ignored their abuse which is now a relief as I don't have to put up with their diatribe.

Hi ADC, I watched what happened to you and I think it was a real shame.

I guess I'm a bit of a glutton for punishment but mostly I just can't stand to read some of the rubbish on here that goes unchallenged and once I pipe up I can't help myself.

I've cut down lately by spending less time reading the forum to start with. It's such an echo chamber these days that a lot of it isn't worth reading anyway.

(Alternatively, I could be here because of a mysterious agenda)

[mjt 640]

CC and CS have trashed our brand.

Absolutely, the way i see it, i dont care who runs for the board, as long as our club is never trashed like this again.

[rpfc 28,084]

lol

Trolls giving each other a bit of love. It's sweet...

I am not going to bother with extremists that only care about the club as far as their own opinions extend.

I can talk about myself more and thoroughly make everyone gag but Fan, Hazy, and ADC are doing that enough for all of us...

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

lol

Trolls giving each other a bit of love. It's sweet...

I am not going to bother with extremists that only care about the club as far as their own opinions extend.

I can talk about myself more and thoroughly make everyone gag but Fan, Hazy, and ADC are doing that enough for all of us...

Yes, you should talk about me instead. I have noticed a lot of people doing that lately. Even in threads that I have not contributed to.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[Sir Why You Little 36,747]

Hazy. I don't think anyone who posts on this board thinks all is rosy. It isn't.

But once again you sidestep the question.

Who is better? Who would you prefer at the top?

[monoccular 17,353]

I see a lot of people blaming Brock.

Brock is just a patsy.

The real person to blame for this, other than any conspirators, is Adrian Anderson.

It was his reaction to Brock's comments that painted the AFL into a corner.

He announced there would be an investigation.

His employment record since would indicate that the AFL agreed.

I know he ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he did have the opportunity to kill this off before it started, but he didn't.. His choice....FAIL

Sure Anderson tried to big note himself by running with it, Vlad chose to swan off to the Olympics during his working hours, and Caro used it to fuel her bitter twisted family feud, but Brock has to take primary responsibility for not saying NO.

The irony surely is it won't/can't stop list management. All it does is remove the added bonus of a high draft pick. If said team wants to experiment or send players to rehab early or whatever then it still will. In fact now its free to without innuendo of tanking attached. If a team wants to start looking early at season X+1 whilst still in season X and make adjustments ' for such what's to stop it? It won't after all be doing so for the 'prize' pick ! All that will result is a going back to pre draft days. I predict that in order to facilitate such and remove any carrots or idea you're still trying to finish low/last to get an early pick the AFL will adopt ,what many already suggest, is a form or raffle. Tanking 0 List Management 1

Regardless of a raffle etc for draft picks, any club with any sense who has a player carrying an injury that may effect him the following year will rest him and/or send him off for treatment as soon as their finals prospects have ended. Pity that ND was either too stubborn or too stupid to make that call with Jeff White, struggling with his shins, especially at a time when we also had the Jolly / Jamar dilemma: what an opportunity to play them head to head. Maybe they would have discovered that they could use both, and find an alternative role for Jeff......who know....never tried, and White was never the same again either That is classic "list management" and "player management" and should continue.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

lol

Trolls giving each other a bit of love. It's sweet...

I am not going to bother with extremists that only care about the club as far as their own opinions extend.

I can talk about myself more and thoroughly make everyone gag but Fan, Hazy, and ADC are doing that enough for all of us...

Interestingly they will can CS, CC and DMcL and tell you that they have wrecked the club trashed the brand and should be deposed. What they won't tell you specifically is what they've done, how they've wrecked the club and how they've trashed the brand.

My view is if you have a gripe about the board the administration or the football department you specify what it is. You have the generic mjt who insists that they've trashed the brand but I'm yet to see one allegation from him or one specific event that he has proof where they've done it. This is his latest, once again with no substance behind it just his gut feeling that this would happen, what a bizarre thing to say.

by the way if you mentioned those 2 names in a Fremantle pub you would be leaving in an Ambulance.

We have ADC who just abuses anyone at the club and relies on the just you wait and see it will all come out; if it will and if you know what will come out, spill the beans, get it off your chest.

Then there's hazy who thinks that McLardy is incompetent but won't give any example of his incompetence, just one or two things he's done wrong that will show that hazy's on the right track.

So far all we've heard is that he should have known that we were tanking, that we should never have tanked, that we've destroyed the club etc. but what we haven't been found is guilty.

As someone said before let's have you, if you've got something put it up, if you haven't then apologise for the defamatory statements you've made. Let's see what you've got, no more hiding behind, you'll see, put your cards on the table.

[hardtack 10,434]

CC and CS have trashed our brand.

What was it you were saying about rational and well balanced arguments?