i think that Jack Trengove will have a very good season next year, especially with a little bit more support.

In the good season i am expecting 4-5 blinder games hopefully, where he turns the game, as i would imagine he has the capabilities to do.

I know it might be a crazy expectation, but i seriously think Trenners is a future star and iv got the feeling the 4th season could be a mini breakout

Him and Jones carried the midfield this season, he also would have copped a pretty decent tag as well.

Lets also not forget that he was appointed captain and that does come with pressure.

He will break out next season with another Mission pre season under his belt and I assume he wont feel the weight of expectation that he had this year as the youngest captain ever.

In the sense that Jack was the player who adapted best to Neelds gameplan, I think he had a pretty reasonable year. Hopefully next year he settles into that style more so and plays a bit more freely, as I think a lot of the guys will as the gameplan becomes more second nature.

like McLean, Sylvia, Morton, Scully and Watts has not yet become the champion player expected with a top5 pick

there has not been a champion player in red and blue since Stynes and Lyon were running around

now we can add Viney, Toumpas and Hogan to that list with a minimum 5 year waiting period

we continue our endless wait

how can u forget our leading goal holder leading games holder, two time all aussie he says hi

like McLean, Sylvia, Morton, Scully and Watts has not yet become the champion player expected with a top5 pick

there has not been a champion player in red and blue since Stynes and Lyon were running around

now we can add Viney, Toumpas and Hogan to that list with a minimum 5 year waiting period

we continue our endless wait

how can u forget our leading goal holder leading games holder, two time all aussie he says hi

Played broken this year whether it was because of getting use to heavier training load or an injury earlier on the year.

Either way he wasn't fit.

Looking forward to seeing him have a cracking 2013, just you wait and see.

I completely agree with C&B. The lack of stars at our club over the last 25 years is extraordinary. No club since the AFL came to being in 1990 would have a worse "best 22" over the last 20+ years.

Lyon, Stynes, Neitz... were champions of our club, but not champions of the game. We keep waiting.

It will be interesting to see if he has one ( another gear that is ).

I actually think that with more experienced players in the team in 2013 and less injuries he may not be a fixture in the side.

Hopefully he will improve because IMO he did not deserve a lot of the games he got in 2012

he was top 5 in all these stats, disposals, kicks, tackles and pressure acts but didnt deserve a game half the time?

He was probably regarded as ineffectual in an offensive sense by outsiders last year & some supporters. It was mentioned a couple of times during the 2012 season by Neeld that Trengove was leading the club in many performance indicators inside the FD. I'm not sure why he wasn't moving as well last year but I would have thought it was OP or some sort of injury that he played through. I'm still hoping to see big things from Trengove. In the coming years if he stays injury free he could consistently average above 20 disposals a game. I'm basing that judgement off his early form at the club where he did have quite a few high disposal games for an 18-19 year old.

this, he focused to heavily from reports on the defensive side to the game, leading by example and forgot to juts play footy it seems. also looked restricted somewhat.

My concern with Trenners in 2012 was that he seemed to lose his attacking edge, but I did feel that it could be attributed to him being awarded the captaincy.

He's a strong character and he wouldn't have been happy with much of his form for 2012, I'm confident 2013 will be a big year for him.

<p>

yes i enjoyed all that

mark riccuito - 8 x all-australian

james hird - 5 x all-australian

nathan buckley - 7 x all-australian

ben cousins - 5 x all-australian

chris judd - 6 x all-australian

these are champion players. Exc. Buckley, who was runner-up twice, the rest delivered premierships

can you put aside the emotion you feel from a fellow supporter expressing a negative view to look at the truth. To pretend that I don't know what I'm talking about or that I am not a true demon is jut your self-defence mechanism kicking in.

do you realise that in the entire time all those players were consistently performing we had just TWO players even MAKE the side, that is Neitz and McDonald, twice each. That's why we spent the 2000s being pretenders at best. Those clubs had elite performers that led their sides to glory.

even gifted with the best talent in the land over the last 6 drafts we do not have a player anywhere near the calibre of those listed above. Our only strong contenders at the moment for star players are Clark and Jones, neither of whom has a CV in the same stratosphere as the aforementioned players. The reason is partially to do with money, but more to do with the fact we are one of the loser clubs with a poor culture. It has nothing to do with choices we made on draft night but the fact that our machine is incapable of producing star players. Our optimism rests solely on yet another coach, with yet another list, as we near a half-century without success. If you disagree, bump this thread when Jack Trengove, or Watts, or Viney, has 5 all-australian achievements.

again, i am not pretending to make any forecast about where we are headed, i am just stating the obvious truths as they are

it sucks, i hate it, but its the truth.

I completely agree with C&B. The lack of stars at our club over the last 25 years is extraordinary. No club since the AFL came to being in 1990 would have a worse "best 22" over the last 20+ years.

Lyon, Stynes, Neitz... were champions of our club, but not champions of the game. We keep waiting.

Not totally sure I agree with this. I am fairly certain Stynes record stands up as him being a champion of the game. Lyon unfortunately I would put into a similar category to the Ox and I have no doubt they would have been seen as champions, but injury cruelled their chances.

C&B seems to be qualifying champions as a player that dragged their club towards a premiership, and whilst thats fine.... there are several players such as Robert Harvey, who never tasted success who wouldn't qualify.

No point arguing on this too much further, but I would say that Trengoves draft there are no champions,.... yet, and therefore it's a little unfair to suggest he is underperforming. His stats last year were solid, but not flashy. But still very good in many areas. Give him a little more time.

I completely agree with C&B. The lack of stars at our club over the last 25 years is extraordinary. No club since the AFL came to being in 1990 would have a worse "best 22" over the last 20+ years.

Lyon, Stynes, Neitz... were champions of our club, but not champions of the game. We keep waiting.

But why is it so?

We have either recruited good players with a pea heart or ordinary players with no ability but great heart; in some cases we've actually recruited ordinary players with no heart as well.

We can go on and on about lack of facilities and development but in essence we have just recruited poorly. There are other clubs that have had facilities as bad as ours but they still seem to have been able to produce champions and win flags. Of course it doesn't help when some of the reasonable players we've recruited have been lazy with an over inflated opinion of their ability.

The question is, which player we have had over the last 22 years, would have been a champion if he had gone elsewhere?

Edited November 28, 201212 yr by RobbieF

I doubt many on this site like Trengove more than me and I support him at every opportunity, but the stats don't tell the full story. He fumbled, missed targets, made poor decisions, and was terribly reactive.

He had a shocker of a year. I still think he'll bounce back strongly.

Thread needs a poll, NiceGuy/Hulkomania/Rangey/?

One suggestion: "Was Trengove carrying an injury last year?"

C&B seems to be qualifying champions as a player that dragged their club towards a premiership, and whilst thats fine.... there are several players such as Robert Harvey, who never tasted success who wouldn't qualify.

well no, an All-australian player is in about the top 3% of all listed players, if you do that in 5 or more seasons you are a champion.. I should have included Harvey who has 8 selections and Scott West who has 5. Stynes got 2 and he retired 15 years ago.

But why is it so?

We have either recruited good players with a pea heart or ordinary players with no ability but great heart; in some cases we've actually recruited ordinary players with no heart as well.

We can go on and on about lack of facilities and development but in essence we have just recruited poorly. There are other clubs that have had facilities as bad as ours but they still seem to have been able to produce champions and win flags. Of course it doesn't help when some of the reasonable players we've recruited have been lazy with an over inflated opinion of their ability.

The question is, which player we have had over the last 22 years, would have been a champion if he had gone elsewhere?

I can't believe you are STILL singing this idiotic tune. How many coaches and recruiting staff have come and gone, are you saying they all shared the inability to select talented kids. How unlucky are we then? I suppose in 5-10 years you will be looking back and saying we stuffed up taking Toumpas at 4, even though he was an absolute lock as was Cale Morton when he came at 4. It is obviously a development problem not a recruiting problem

I can't believe you are STILL singing this idiotic tune. How many coaches and recruiting staff have come and gone, are you saying they all shared the inability to select talented kids. How unlucky are we then? I suppose in 5-10 years you will be looking back and saying we stuffed up taking Toumpas at 4, even though he was an absolute lock as was Cale Morton when he came at 4. It is obviously a development problem not a recruiting problem

Only an idiot would still think Morton was a good selection at 4, but what's that got to do with the sheer number of failures we've picked up in the last 10 years? How many of them do you think would have been "stars" elsewhere. Oh! And which ones?

For the record:

- The last out-and-out superstar I'd consider Melbourne had was Farmer.

- The 'OP' calls for JT were made by numerous posters, myself included, over the season. It wasn't just the seeming loss of pace - in particular it was a loss of power in his kicks. He lined up at one point from around 50, 45 degree angle on the members side, kicking to the PRE. Was fairly early in the season, can't remember the exact game. Kick would have been lucky to go 30m. Classic OP symptom.

I think he'll be much better in 2013. Partly because I think more heat will go elsewhere from about Rnd 3 or 4 once everyone realises how f---ing dangerous (sorry mods, but it needs to be said in this case!) JV is out of the clearances, and seek to counter him, as well as attempting to stop the outside carry of a Blease or a Nicho.

Lyon, Stynes, Neitz... were champions of our club, but not champions of the game. We keep waiting.

Stynes not a champion of the game...putting aside what he did after the game i think it is fair to say a Brownlow medalist is a champion of the game.

Stynes not a champion of the game...putting aside what he did after the game i think it is fair to say a Brownlow medalist is a champion of the game.

No. It's one good year. There are many Brownlow Medallists that aren't "champions of the game".

Stynes was a terrific player, but he was a rung below champion of the game.

Ultimately, it's subjective and we all have opinions. I respect yours.

Trengove was not at training today.

I hear the headline on tomorrows AGE is

"Demons captain unhappy with coaching staff will not attending training until changes are made"

CW has demanded the AFL investigate

No. It's one good year. There are many Brownlow Medallists that aren't "champions of the game".

Stynes was a terrific player, but he was a rung below champion of the game.

Ultimately, it's subjective and we all have opinions. I respect yours.

Agree. Woey? Cooney?

If Neitz can't be described as a champion of the game then I'm not here.

If Neitz can't be described as a champion of the game then I'm not here.

David Neitz is a CERTAIN champion of the game.

The fact that he played 300 games and broke every record Melbourne has says enough.

Enough said.