Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it Tim Harrington assumed the List Manager role at Melbourne at the beginning of the 2009 season.

Given our 'fire sale' of Gysberts, Martin and Morton today, who were all contracted, and the fact we are realistically looking at turning over a third of our list before next season, would it be fair to say that Harrington, as List Manager, is just as culpable for this mess of a list as Prendergast and Bailey? After all, the list manager works extremely closely with coaches and recruiters to address deficiencies in the list. I am sure that he would have been included in the conversations that determined Lucas Cook and Jordan Gysberts were worthy of selection.

I just don't understand how Harrington is still in a job, let alone has the audacity to go on radio and smugly talk about 'premiership models'. I have cringed every time he has spoken over the past month because as far as i can tell Harrington, Schwab and Connolly are the only constants from the Bailey era which compiled the worst list in the AFL. Clearly Tim would not understand a premiership model if it smacked him in the face. After all, it's been deemed that a 29 year old that has had 2 knee reconstructions and is onto his 3rd club will seriously bring something to a list that he has now overseen for 3 years.

Please Mark Neeld, get rid of this clown.

  On 26/10/2012 at 07:59, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it Tim Harrington assumed the List Manager role at Melbourne at the beginning of the 2009 season.

Given our 'fire sale' of Gysberts, Martin and Morton today, who were all contracted, and the fact we are realistically looking at turning over a third of our list before next season, would it be fair to say that Harrington, as List Manager, is just as culpable for this mess of a list as Prendergast and Bailey? After all, the list manager works extremely closely with coaches and recruiters to address deficiencies in the list. I am sure that he would have been included in the conversations that determined Lucas Cook and Jordan Gysberts were worthy of selection.

I just don't understand how Harrington is still in a job, let alone has the audacity to go on radio and smugly talk about 'premiership models'. I have cringed every time he has spoken over the past month because as far as i can tell Harrington, Schwab and Connolly are the only constants from the Bailey era which compiled the worst list in the AFL. Clearly Tim would not understand a premiership model if it smacked him in the face. After all, it's been deemed that a 29 year old that has had 2 knee reconstructions and is onto his 3rd club will seriously bring something to a list that he has now overseen for 3 years.

Please Mark Neeld, get rid of this clown.

Not how i understand it although i am making assumptions.

The recruiters find the talent, Neeld says what types of players he would like ect and the recruiters and FD/Coach pick the players

Harrington manages the list yes, but i doubt he makes the decisions on who comes and goes, he is like an accountant in my mind. Does the wages ect players worths ect. Also would do the dealing at the trade table, but this will also depend on the FD and Coach, he will have more of an opinion at the trade table.

I wouldnt imagine Harrington picks many players, just does the deals, wages ect that he is told to work on.

edit - wage structuring/balancing would be his main role

How about you give him time to prove that the players we have picked up at his discretion are going to do more for us than the players we let go?

Dawes, Byrnes and Pedersen will both be immediate starters in the 22, Rodan too if he is fit. Barry might well be up there early though I don't know a whole lot about him. So we have picked up these guys in exchange for a few players who have really struggled to break into the team. There is a clear point to it and it makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

I was in favour of keeping Gys but it's done now, so have a cry if you must but we move on and watch as the new additions add a whole lot more to the side than the rejects we offloaded.

Whoever gave Morton a two year deal last year was a fool, but then again since we've been able to move him on after a bad year I suppose it was a good move. If he had got good in 2012 it would've looked like a good plan.

  On 26/10/2012 at 07:59, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it Tim Harrington assumed the List Manager role at Melbourne at the beginning of the 2009 season.

Given our 'fire sale' of Gysberts, Martin and Morton today, who were all contracted, and the fact we are realistically looking at turning over a third of our list before next season, would it be fair to say that Harrington, as List Manager, is just as culpable for this mess of a list as Prendergast and Bailey? After all, the list manager works extremely closely with coaches and recruiters to address deficiencies in the list. I am sure that he would have been included in the conversations that determined Lucas Cook and Jordan Gysberts were worthy of selection.

I just don't understand how Harrington is still in a job, let alone has the audacity to go on radio and smugly talk about 'premiership models'. I have cringed every time he has spoken over the past month because as far as i can tell Harrington, Schwab and Connolly are the only constants from the Bailey era which compiled the worst list in the AFL. Clearly Tim would not understand a premiership model if it smacked him in the face. After all, it's been deemed that a 29 year old that has had 2 knee reconstructions and is onto his 3rd club will seriously bring something to a list that he has now overseen for 3 years.

Please Mark Neeld, get rid of this clown.

I was amazed he didnt get sacked last year and am staggered he is still at the club. With what the club has just done over trade period I think Harrington and Neeld are both on thin ice.

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:14, trout said:

I was amazed he didnt get sacked last year and am staggered he is still at the club. With what the club has just done over trade period I think Harrington and Neeld are both on thin ice.

Lol, what do you expect Neeld to do after one year and a whole list of rubbish that he can't do anything with? He has to get rid of the players that don't fit into the way he wants to play, and has to get his hands on the guys that can play his way and fit his structure. Howabout you give the guy a chance? I really thought that people understood a radical change was needed after the Daniher and Bailey years and Neeld is doing just that.

This really is a society of instant gratification, have some patience ffs and you'll see that Neeld is going the right way in 2013.

  On 26/10/2012 at 08:14, the passenger said:

How about you give him time to prove that the players we have picked up at his discretion are going to do more for us than the players we let go?

Dawes, Byrnes and Pedersen will both be immediate starters in the 22, Rodan too if he is fit. Barry might well be up there early though I don't know a whole lot about him. So we have picked up these guys in exchange for a few players who have really struggled to break into the team. There is a clear point to it and it makes a lot of sense if you ask me.

I was in favour of keeping Gys but it's done now, so have a cry if you must but we move on and watch as the new additions add a whole lot more to the side than the rejects we offloaded.

This isn't a thread to cry about losing pea hearts, because I support today's offloads.

This is a thread to question how Harrington still has a job when he has been involved in the recruitment and retention of players that Neeld has shown the door to in no time.

Harrington thought Cook and Gysberts could be a part of a premiership model when he was involved in list management meetings with Bailey and Prendergast. These meetings determined we needed another skinny key forward and a 190cm skinny midfielder. He must have thought Morton and Martin would make it too when he signed them on contracts which still have a year to run.

How bad is his judgement if Neeld, who does know what a premiership side looks like, has axed these players within 12 months, and while they are all under contract.

And I shudder to think how much we are paying some players if his negotiating skills over trade month are anything to go by. Not a single deal where we didn't pay overs!

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:19, the passenger said:

Lol, what do you expect Neeld to do after one year and a whole list of rubbish that he can't do anything with? He has to get rid of the players that don't fit into the way he wants to play, and has to get his hands on the guys that can play his way and fit his structure. Howabout you give the guy a chance? I really thought that people understood a radical change was needed after the Daniher and Bailey years and Neeld is doing just that.

This really is a society of instant gratification, have some patience ffs and you'll see that Neeld is going the right way in 2013.

I support Neeld mate. I just don't support the bloke who has been making atrocious list management decisions for 3 years. When you're the list manager of the worst list in the league, some questions need to be asked.

  On 26/10/2012 at 08:04, Jordie_tackles said:

Not how i understand it although i am making assumptions.

The recruiters find the talent, Neeld says what types of players he would like ect and the recruiters and FD/Coach pick the players

Harrington manages the list yes, but i doubt he makes the decisions on who comes and goes, he is like an accountant in my mind. Does the wages ect players worths ect. Also would do the dealing at the trade table, but this will also depend on the FD and Coach, he will have more of an opinion at the trade table.

I wouldnt imagine Harrington picks many players, just does the deals, wages ect that he is told to work on.

edit - wage structuring/balancing would be his main role

If this is the case, Delete the tread.

I really don't understand attitude to Tim Harrington and the so called firesale. It's considered a firesale because of where those players were drafted. Unfortunately as is often the case, as with other clubs as well,Jordan Russell was pick 6, their performances didn't match their draft5 position. Gysberts does not have the power or the endurance to play a contested bransd of football. Morton as i think we all know was a poor decision maker and a poor kick and tackler. Martin is a good athlete but was unable to take contested marks on a consistent basis and and as a forward was a poor converter.

I am extremely happy with what has transpired. Rodan and Byrnes will provide some leadership in the short term and Dawes and Pedersen bigger bodies up forward. All that is left now is to delist Bate, Petterd and possibly Joel MacDonald and hope that our younger players take a step forward next year.

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:14, trout said:

I was amazed he didnt get sacked last year and am staggered he is still at the club. With what the club has just done over trade period I think Harrington and Neeld are both on thin ice.

I have no doubt that our playing list is more professional and more skilful today than it was three weeks ago. Dawes, Byrnes, Rodan all add vast experience and fill holes. Pederson is a bit unknown but should fill the vacancy left by Rivers as well as adding other dimensions. Viney will be a gun, Hogan too, by all accounts.Do you think Martin, Morton or Gysberts would make our top 22? Neeld has made a statement. Players with big tanks and bigger hearts and some consistency is what he wants.

In my opinion other than getting Mitch Clark to the club Mark Neeld has done nothing to fill me with any confidence that he is taking the club in the right direction. Another year like this next year particularly after this years recruiting and he will be gone as will Harrington, just my opinion.

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:36, Barrie Vagg said:

I really don't understand attitude to Tim Harrington and the so called firesale. It's considered a firesale because of where those players were drafted. Unfortunately as is often the case, as with other clubs as well,Jordan Russell was pick 6, their performances didn't match their draft5 position. Gysberts does not have the power or the endurance to play a contested bransd of football. Morton as i think we all know was a poor decision maker and a poor kick and tackler. Martin is a good athlete but was unable to take contested marks on a consistent basis and and as a forward was a poor converter.

I am extremely happy with what has transpired. Rodan and Byrnes will provide some leadership in the short term and Dawes and Pedersen bigger bodies up forward. All that is left now is to delist Bate, Petterd and possibly Joel MacDonald and hope that our younger players take a step forward next year.

I would be shattered if we delisted Joel MacDonald. He is tuff as nails! Should be in our best 22 and a solid contributir in the back half.

He didn't do it off his own back.

he had a hand up his jumper pulling the strings.

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:32, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

I support Neeld mate. I just don't support the bloke who has been making atrocious list management decisions for 3 years. When you're the list manager of the worst list in the league, some questions need to be asked.

I think the role of the list manager isn't as stand alone as people think. They work with the coach, head recruiter and others so it's unfair to pin it on Harrington. Evidence of this is the different kinds of players recruited under Bailey vs Neeld, as Harrington has been around with both of them.

  On 26/10/2012 at 09:48, trout said:

In my opinion other than getting Mitch Clark to the club Mark Neeld has done nothing to fill me with any confidence that he is taking the club in the right direction. Another year like this next year particularly after this years recruiting and he will be gone as will Harrington, just my opinion.

Your opinion is worthless the club has been treading water for years. Damien Hardwick sacked 10 players before his first season as coach. Neeld at least assessed the players at his disposal before applying the blow torch and has clearde out everyone with any attachment to previous regimes.

  On 26/10/2012 at 10:48, Barrie Vagg said:

Your opinion is worthless the club has been treading water for years. Damien Hardwick sacked 10 players before his first season as coach. Neeld at least assessed the players at his disposal before applying the blow torch and has clearde out everyone with any attachment to previous regimes.

Neeld did state that he was going to be using Hardwick's model as a bit of a blueprint.

  On 26/10/2012 at 10:50, the passenger said:

Neeld did state that he was going to be using Hardwick's model as a bit of a blueprint.

So far it seems to working ok for the Tigers.

They were behind the Dees and are now well in front.

Hard to argue against the plan

  On 26/10/2012 at 07:59, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it Tim Harrington assumed the List Manager role at Melbourne at the beginning of the 2009 season.

Given our 'fire sale' of Gysberts, Martin and Morton today, who were all contracted, and the fact we are realistically looking at turning over a third of our list before next season, would it be fair to say that Harrington, as List Manager, is just as culpable for this mess of a list as Prendergast and Bailey? After all, the list manager works extremely closely with coaches and recruiters to address deficiencies in the list. I am sure that he would have been included in the conversations that determined Lucas Cook and Jordan Gysberts were worthy of selection.

I just don't understand how Harrington is still in a job, let alone has the audacity to go on radio and smugly talk about 'premiership models'. I have cringed every time he has spoken over the past month because as far as i can tell Harrington, Schwab and Connolly are the only constants from the Bailey era which compiled the worst list in the AFL. Clearly Tim would not understand a premiership model if it smacked him in the face. After all, it's been deemed that a 29 year old that has had 2 knee reconstructions and is onto his 3rd club will seriously bring something to a list that he has now overseen for 3 years.

Please Mark Neeld, get rid of this clown.

While I've always wondered what TH's role was in the Bailey era managing of player recruitment and retention, I don't think he can carry much blame for the so-called fire sale of high picks Gys and Morton and the low, pre-season pick of Martin. Using your logic, can we also praise him for the pick up of Howe and TMac?

I sometimes think that over the last 10-15 yrs the MFC has hung onto high pick players who have not worked out, for fear that they may come good at another club and bite us in the rump. Neeld has decided that its better to cut our losses and get rid of them regardless. They might do well elsewhere, but we are not going to wait. I was a little concerned with losing Gys, as I believed he has a lot of untapped upside. But I see Neeld's plan is to only have players that want to get the absolute best out of themselves, who will do what is required and buy in. I support him in this.

Not only have we picked up moneyball players, we've also done the reverse-moneyball by getting rid of Gys, Morton, Beamer, etc.

Those hating on Harrington do not understand his role.

He works for the coach & Footy Dept.

Harrington would know the footballers available each year.

Bailey wanted a certain type. Neeld wants different types.

He was interviewed last night on Radio.

He is no fool.

If you must blame someone, whoever put the handbrake on Bailey is a good start.

  On 26/10/2012 at 07:59, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it Tim Harrington assumed the List Manager role at Melbourne at the beginning of the 2009 season.

Given our 'fire sale' of Gysberts, Martin and Morton today, who were all contracted, and the fact we are realistically looking at turning over a third of our list before next season, would it be fair to say that Harrington, as List Manager, is just as culpable for this mess of a list as Prendergast and Bailey? After all, the list manager works extremely closely with coaches and recruiters to address deficiencies in the list. I am sure that he would have been included in the conversations that determined Lucas Cook and Jordan Gysberts were worthy of selection.

I just don't understand how Harrington is still in a job, let alone has the audacity to go on radio and smugly talk about 'premiership models'. I have cringed every time he has spoken over the past month because as far as i can tell Harrington, Schwab and Connolly are the only constants from the Bailey era which compiled the worst list in the AFL. Clearly Tim would not understand a premiership model if it smacked him in the face. After all, it's been deemed that a 29 year old that has had 2 knee reconstructions and is onto his 3rd club will seriously bring something to a list that he has now overseen for 3 years.

Please Mark Neeld, get rid of this clown.

It'd be fair to say you have no clue what TH's role is within the club.

I'd stop posting on this topic before you embarrass yourself any more.

Personally I think they've worked the last few weeks quite well. It was a good move giving up 3 and 13 for Hogan as everyone seems to forget, we don't have a recruiter. We probably would have shanked the picks anyway. So proven players like Dawes and Byrnes and shoe ins like Hogan were definitely the way to go this year rather than risking the high end of the draft. Focus on drafting next year when the Collingwood bloke is in charge.

  On 26/10/2012 at 23:14, why you little said:

Those hating on Harrington do not understand his role.

He works for the coach & Footy Dept.

Harrington would know the footballers available each year.

Bailey wanted a certain type. Neeld wants different types.

He was interviewed last night on Radio.

He is no fool.

If you must blame someone, whoever put the handbrake on Bailey is a good start.

Agree. Harrington finds the players that a coach wants. Bailey wanted outside runners who have failed as football players at our club. The bailey era is being smashed to pieces as it should be. It is not the Harrington era.

Harrington?

He manages contracts and is doing the 'Frontending the bejeezus out of everyone's contract so we can lure of FA next year or the year after' but we are in the mess that was resolved yesterday (I am assuming Cook has already been told he is gone) because of our terrible recruitment by CAC at 4 in 2007 and Barry Prendergast for the other two players at 11 and 12.

It's a crying shame that we don't have to be reminded about anymore thankfully but it is our recruitment that needs to be whipped over it - not Harrington.

Coaches set direction and recruiters provide expertise and aide in execution.

Unfortunately, the expertise was lacking and the execution was terrible.

You can criticise direction but if we picked right it would have been so different.

One thing you can say is that our recruitment at the pointy end of the draft has been terrible for as long as I can remember.

  On 26/10/2012 at 23:14, why you little said:

Those hating on Harrington do not understand his role.

He works for the coach & Footy Dept.

Harrington would know the footballers available each year.

Bailey wanted a certain type. Neeld wants different types.

He was interviewed last night on Radio.

He is no fool.

If you must blame someone, whoever put the handbrake on Bailey is a good start.

Good post.

Harrington's job is tying up the players Neeld wants to keep (eg. Frawley), signing up club targets Neeld wants to bring in (Clark, Dawes, Byrnes, etc), signing mid-tier players Neeld thinks we want to keep in the short term (Morton initially), getting contracted players Neeld doesn't want off the list (Morton, Gysberts, Martin) for the best return he can get (not much when it's obvious to other clubs we are in need of wholesale change), and delisting those of minimal value that have no takers (Petterd, Bate, etc).

*having no takers in a trade. I'm sure someone like Ricky would happily be selected by some team in the PSD.

Nothing we can do about that.