Don't understand this. We started off with 3, 4, 13 and 26 and ended up with 4, Viney, Hogan, Dawes and Barry.

5 players for 4 picks, including (arguably) 3 top 5's. Looks ok to me.

No mate, it's just the only leverage I hold -- my membership and my son's.

Its a fake leverage. You either get on board or you dont. If it you dont buy membership thats your issue.

But dont gloat about it. It wont change a thing on its own. A negative gesture at best.

I know Demonland etiquette requires you to think the club people are geniuses until the next disaster, I struggle with that, sorry.

There is some premature back slapping over the all the list changes. We will only know there success in 12 months time.

As the thread asks "Who the Hell is Responsible?"

Pretty simple really.

It's the MFC.

They were elected by the members.

They then put in place the FD. with a view to turning this club around.

Very hard to turn a ship when it is half submerged.

So first you have to float it, put in a bigger engine before you start heading in the right direction at full steam.

That process has now started, we have rid ourselves of most of the dead wood.

We are now floating, and come next month MN will fire up the boilers.

Hang on to your hats and enjoy the ride from here on in.

Its a fake leverage. You either get on board or you dont. If it you dont buy membership thats your issue.

But dont gloat about it. It wont change a thing on its own. A negative gesture at best.

There is some premature back slapping over the all the list changes. We will only know there success in 12 months time.

You are very correct RR

But we can be fairly certain what no changes would have got us.

You are very correct RR

But we can be fairly certain what no changes would have got us.

I am not advocating maintaining the existing flawed list.

The success of the changes will start to be seen within 12 months.

This is when we can start celebrating some achievements.

I see some things have not changed, would hate to be in a bar fight with some of our supporters they would be under the table before you could count to one!!

Not sure this is any intelligent criteria to apply to the situation.

People getting into bar fights are not the type I would be heralding.

I am not advocating maintaining the existing flawed list.

The success of the changes will start to be seen within 12 months.

This is when we can start celebrating some achievements.

Perhaps I did not write it well RR.

I agree 100%

Content with the decisions made, but the only thing i question is

Who the hell is responsible for deciding to take Byrnes via F.A ??

Probably could have picked him up during the delisted F.A period and scored ourselves a 2nd rounder rather than a 3rd rounder

I think it is a total disaster. I suspect we have a coach with a massive inferiority complex.

Don't forget that Bailey won 8 and a half matches with the youngest list imaginable. He's sacked and his replacement has won 4 including 1only against the real teams. Did Sanderson feel the need to get rid of half of Adelaide's list? We beat Adelaide by 100 points in 2011,they finished 3rd this year while we plummeted.

Neeld appears to need to establish that those who went before him were hopeless. He downgraded all the senior players including those who'd won the bluey the 3 preceding years. And now he's gone about recruiting fellows who can't get a game elsewhere. My assessment; Byrnes possibly ok-paid v little, Dawes, paid way over. No21 for him when Wellingham was 13 and Cwood rated him so poorly they recruited a 30 yo instead. Viney, well done. Hogan, time will tell. Rodan--inexplicable! At 29 he keeps a kid such as Evans off the list. Pedersen--was it 3 games this year? Morton, has the potential to rub our noses in it. Got 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games, disappointing since but needed coaching not clearance. Gysberts, diito. Hopelessly interrupted preseason in 2012. Martin, biggest blunder of all! Versatile, could have played a crucial big defender role, now we've lost Warnock and Rivers. In a number of games this year got 20 plus hit outs and as many disposals , quite remarkable for someone of his size. Sure he was still learning, again, needed coaching and assistance, not clearing. Loved the club, is bitterly upset.

Sorry all but the coach is a dud! When we pay him out at the end of this season, we wil look back at a disastrous October 2012

For those of you that have studied accounting, you would have come across an acronym FIFO in relation stock valuations (stands for First In First Out).

When dealing with change management (and clearly Neeld is trying to change MFC) then FIFO has a whole different interpretation - FIT IN or F**K OFF. There comes a point in time in change mangement when all the talking, cajoling, persausion, justification and BS is no longer effective and you just have to FIFO. I believe that time has now come for MFC - either get on board with the plan or get out and let someone else take your ticket.

Only time will tell whether these trades are positive or not and that will be determined not by the number of wins we have but the manner in which we execute the plan. To me loses will be acceptable so long as the personnel on and off the field have accepted the plan and executed it to the best of their ability.

I think it is a total disaster. I suspect we have a coach with a massive inferiority complex.

Don't forget that Bailey won 8 and a half matches with the youngest list imaginable. He's sacked and his replacement has won 4 including 1only against the real teams. Did Sanderson feel the need to get rid of half of Adelaide's list? We beat Adelaide by 100 points in 2011,they finished 3rd this year while we plummeted.

Neeld appears to need to establish that those who went before him were hopeless. He downgraded all the senior players including those who'd won the bluey the 3 preceding years. And now he's gone about recruiting fellows who can't get a game elsewhere. My assessment; Byrnes possibly ok-paid v little, Dawes, paid way over. No21 for him when Wellingham was 13 and Cwood rated him so poorly they recruited a 30 yo instead. Viney, well done. Hogan, time will tell. Rodan--inexplicable! At 29 he keeps a kid such as Evans off the list. Pedersen--was it 3 games this year? Morton, has the potential to rub our noses in it. Got 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games, disappointing since but needed coaching not clearance. Gysberts, diito. Hopelessly interrupted preseason in 2012. Martin, biggest blunder of all! Versatile, could have played a crucial big defender role, now we've lost Warnock and Rivers. In a number of games this year got 20 plus hit outs and as many disposals , quite remarkable for someone of his size. Sure he was still learning, again, needed coaching and assistance, not clearing. Loved the club, is bitterly upset.

Sorry all but the coach is a dud! When we pay him out at the end of this season, we wil look back at a disastrous October 2012

Wow.

As a paid up member of 30 years I feel very angry that we have stuffed up on recent high draft picks. Now we are giving up those missed chances for B grade pickups. It's a total disgrace and one that MFC members should no longer tolerate. FFS if you recruit a first rounder - Get it right! develop them!

Gysberts? WTF....who apart from himself is responsible for his failure

Morton? Pick bloody 4. I am nonplussed.

This bloody club has to lift its game with recruiting.

l'm really [censored] off about Gysberts for nothing, Morton for nothing and Martin for nothing. Lets face it they got really crappy draft picks so it may as well be nothing

I think it is a total disaster. I suspect we have a coach with a massive inferiority complex.

Don't forget that Bailey won 8 and a half matches with the youngest list imaginable. He's sacked and his replacement has won 4 including 1only against the real teams. Did Sanderson feel the need to get rid of half of Adelaide's list? We beat Adelaide by 100 points in 2011,they finished 3rd this year while we plummeted.

Neeld appears to need to establish that those who went before him were hopeless. He downgraded all the senior players including those who'd won the bluey the 3 preceding years. And now he's gone about recruiting fellows who can't get a game elsewhere. My assessment; Byrnes possibly ok-paid v little, Dawes, paid way over. No21 for him when Wellingham was 13 and Cwood rated him so poorly they recruited a 30 yo instead. Viney, well done. Hogan, time will tell. Rodan--inexplicable! At 29 he keeps a kid such as Evans off the list. Pedersen--was it 3 games this year? Morton, has the potential to rub our noses in it. Got 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games, disappointing since but needed coaching not clearance. Gysberts, diito. Hopelessly interrupted preseason in 2012. Martin, biggest blunder of all! Versatile, could have played a crucial big defender role, now we've lost Warnock and Rivers. In a number of games this year got 20 plus hit outs and as many disposals , quite remarkable for someone of his size. Sure he was still learning, again, needed coaching and assistance, not clearing. Loved the club, is bitterly upset.

Sorry all but the coach is a dud! When we pay him out at the end of this season, we wil look back at a disastrous October 2012

I can't add much to Caco Demon comment.

Except Double WOW

and what planet are you from?

l'm really [censored] off about Gysberts for nothing, Morton for nothing and Martin for nothing. Lets face it they got really crappy draft picks so it may as well be nothing

But that's the whole point. These trades were not made for draft picks. They were made in order to move contracted players to free space on the list. They were obviously shopped around over the trade period and when no serious offers were made, they were swapped for low picks simply to get rid of them.

Personally, I would have liked to see more from them under the new FD, especially after a full preseason. But if the FD would prefer not to see them at preseason, then fine. The FD will live or die based on the list they have assembled, which is how it should be.

Keep running sunshine.

And they reckon we got dudded! HA!

[media=]

He was following the ball...

I can't add much to Caco Demon comment.

Except Double WOW

and what planet are you from?

Uranus

Trolololol

No use getting angry with the current football department for blunders made by those in the past. But I refuse to cop the whole 'we are on the right track' or 'Neeld will take us where we need to go' lines. There have been many false dawns at this club over the last few years, and while I will continue to support and pay up and all that, I am no more confident now than I was at any other stage over the last 5 years. We just have to support them and hope they have made and will make the right decisions. Time will tell I guess.

I think it is a total disaster. I suspect we have a coach with a massive inferiority complex.

Don't forget that Bailey won 8 and a half matches with the youngest list imaginable. He's sacked and his replacement has won 4 including 1only against the real teams. Did Sanderson feel the need to get rid of half of Adelaide's list? We beat Adelaide by 100 points in 2011,they finished 3rd this year while we plummeted.

Neeld appears to need to establish that those who went before him were hopeless. He downgraded all the senior players including those who'd won the bluey the 3 preceding years. And now he's gone about recruiting fellows who can't get a game elsewhere. My assessment; Byrnes possibly ok-paid v little, Dawes, paid way over. No21 for him when Wellingham was 13 and Cwood rated him so poorly they recruited a 30 yo instead. Viney, well done. Hogan, time will tell. Rodan--inexplicable! At 29 he keeps a kid such as Evans off the list. Pedersen--was it 3 games this year? Morton, has the potential to rub our noses in it. Got 90 odd disposals in his first 3 games, disappointing since but needed coaching not clearance. Gysberts, diito. Hopelessly interrupted preseason in 2012. Martin, biggest blunder of all! Versatile, could have played a crucial big defender role, now we've lost Warnock and Rivers. In a number of games this year got 20 plus hit outs and as many disposals , quite remarkable for someone of his size. Sure he was still learning, again, needed coaching and assistance, not clearing. Loved the club, is bitterly upset.

Sorry all but the coach is a dud! When we pay him out at the end of this season, we wil look back at a disastrous October 2012

So by your logic since Viney coached one of our wins Bailey really only won 6 games, you don't get half a win it's a draw

Neeld is responsible now along with Schwab . I thought we were supposed to have a strategy of a rebuilding club, letting go players, like Junior etc..we now pick up Rodan, Byrnes etc..and let go early draft picks in Morton & Gysberts.

All I can say Cam&Mark, it is on your heads this next year after a disastrous 2012.

I believe letting Gysberts and Morton go for virtually nothing is just downright shameful.If we do not win at least 10 games this year both Cam & Mark should WALK or the board should sack both.

I don't know how you can blame Schwab or Neeld?

Schwab didn't pick The players and Neeld wasn't around to decided it was a good idea to pick up thin kids.

If you have a look at what has been traded in and out you will see we have traded Thin players for Bigger player.

Im not to happy about losing Gysbert but the kid is to thin to play with men and hasn't gotten any bigger since Being recruited.

I would be blaming Baliy for going for the thin athletic type, those types of players don't really suit the high tackling defencive game that is played in this day and age.

The players we picked where more for an attacking game plan that will not win you a final.

Apart from Rivers, Moloney and Jurrah leaving of their own accord.

All we have lost here is potential.

Yet we have gained hardened experienced players of whom 3 have played in grand finals.

I don't like losing Gysberts for nothing. We saw he could play.and I would have given Morton one last chance. With that said, I see what Neeld is trying to do. Getting players suitable for his game plan. Out with the soft [censored].

PANIC PANIC PANIC!

I'm particularly impressed with the 'gymnastics' of some people who manage to first sook about the draft failures of the past, and then also sook about letting those failures go.

Cook, Gysberts, Morton, Martin. Basically list cloggers in the end, in the simple sense that all four could not get a game as either midfielders in a team desperately short of midfielders, or as a forward in a team whih lost it's only true forward target halfway through the year, or a ruck/forward when our entire ruck list was injured.

Yes, I know they each had injury problems too... yes! Hurrah! Let's keep players because they are injury prone! Or keep them because 'if' they knuckle down they 'could' be good players.

I 'liked' all four, but that's not enough to be kept on at AFL level. I think Martin is the one most likely to do well at their next club, but honestly, only a fresh start will get them there, and they weren't offering anything to the Melbourne football club.

If just ONE of the four players who come in to replace them (Pederson and three late draft or pre-season selections) turns out to be a reliable AFL quality player, we have come out ahead.

Cheer up,we just delisted all our Tamblings.

Have just considered that it may be that they were just poor picks in the first place?

Absolutely and obviously.

Outs

Moloney Rivers Greene Martin Gysberts Morton (for pick 88)

Ins

Pederson Viney Dawes Rodan Byrnes Hogan

Summary:

Not looking good but trying to find the positives here.

Mark Neeld...your future will be decided at the conclusion of Round one. Byrnes, Pederson (Sellar mark 2)and Rodan.....All would be excellent players down at the Grove Mate but this is Melbourne FC.