I'd say that provided we get the deal done with martin going to the lions which now seems more likely as he has had an interview with them, we will get pedersen over to the dees. Hopefully we would get pick 33 for martin but if we get a pick around 45+ we may need to bundle that with our other pick, 49.

And wouldn't you kick yourself if someone like Stringer was still available at pick 33?

If they want to pay his contract as he languishes in the VFL, good on them.

They don't want him and don't play him but want a top draft pick to trade him, yeah right, next.

I'm with you Robbie. Rivers and Moloney played about 40 games this year and the pick we got for them is not good enough for a bloke who played 2 games for North and couldn't get into the AFL until he was 25.

Can we make Peter File nominate for the PSD if North are going to stuff us around?

Trade Martin to Bris for pick 33, use pick 33 on Ray, take the Pedo with PSD3 for "free."

Is this too simple?

Cannot take Pedersen like you propose as he is still contracted to the Kangas.

And wouldn't you kick yourself if someone like Stringer was still available at pick 33?

Yeah, but we have been down the path of recruiting many (supposed) young guns before, and as far as i can tell so far it has not worked out for us (yet). I can't see stringer falling that far down the draft anyway as he should be a top 20 talent taking into account any injuries he has suffered. and as i said we have drafted many young players, we have a large number on our list currently and very little experience, so given our situation i would prefer to trade for developed, experienced players than wait for draftees to develop like we still are with many players that we have on our list already.

Yeah, but we have been down the path of recruiting many (supposed) young guns before, and as far as i can tell so far it has not worked out for us (yet). I can't see stringer falling that far down the draft anyway as he should be a top 20 talent taking into account any injuries he has suffered. and as i said we have drafted many young players, we have a large number on our list currently and very little experience, so given our situation i would prefer to trade for developed, experienced players than wait for draftees to develop like we still are with many players that we have on our list already.

Balance Young Dee, balance and quality are paramount.

Recruiting mature players just for the sake of it doesn't help, they must be good quality types and you shouldn't pay the Earth for them, Pederson is not that good that you'd offer that sort of pick, at least I wouldn't.

Balance Young Dee, balance and quality are paramount.

Recruiting mature players just for the sake of it doesn't help, they must be good quality types and you shouldn't pay the Earth for them, Pederson is not that good that you'd offer that sort of pick, at least I wouldn't.

I agree with you and pedersen may not be quite worth that pick (possibly 45 + 49?) but i do rate him (i'm not saying you don't) and he would be a top get for us imo. I think we do have a number of quality players atm with good talent but they're still developing and it will take time. I would rather pick up a mature age guy like pedersen who will bring a good, strong body who we already know can make it at AFL level then go to the draft and wait for another few years for another young player who may not make it at all at AFL level. Now with that you can say, 'then why draft at all', as none of the players in the draft are guranteed AFL players but at pick 33 you may get a roughie, but as we have seen before there have been many fine players uncovered around there (howe) but i would far rather get a ready made player like pedersen than have to wait and 'be patient' like we have had to be for the last few years.

i probably rambled on a bit then didn't i?

I agree with RobbieF.... Happy for the club to do a deal for Pederson and Ray, at the right price..... I wouldn't pay overs for ether of them...... They are experience players, but not star players.... They are good/ average players at best...

I agree with you and pedersen may not be quite worth that pick (possibly 45 + 49?) but i do rate him (i'm not saying you don't) and he would be a top get for us imo. I think we do have a number of quality players atm with good talent but they're still developing and it will take time. I would rather pick up a mature age guy like pedersen who will bring a good, strong body who we already know can make it at AFL level then go to the draft and wait for another few years for another young player who may not make it at all at AFL level. Now with that you can say, 'then why draft at all', as none of the players in the draft are guranteed AFL players but at pick 33 you may get a roughie, but as we have seen before there have been many fine players uncovered around there (howe) but i would far rather get a ready made player like pedersen than have to wait and 'be patient' like we have had to be for the last few years.

i probably rambled on a bit then didn't i?

Not really, I understand where you are coming from.

The fact we are after Pederson means that the football department can see something in him. He's under contract so he's not readily available, but we are going after him anyway so they can obviously see some benefit in getting him and they certainly know more than I do, lots more.

My observation is purely that this is a strong draft, he is maybe a 4 or 5 year proposition and there may be a really good junior available at pick 33 if we get that for Martin that can play for 10 years, or not.

Not really, I understand where you are coming from.

The fact we are after Pederson means that the football department can see something in him. He's under contract so he's not readily available, but we are going after him anyway so they can obviously see some benefit in getting him and they certainly know more than I do, lots more.

My observation is purely that this is a strong draft, he is maybe a 4 or 5 year proposition and there may be a really good junior available at pick 33 if we get that for Martin that can play for 10 years, or not.

Yeah it sure is, and there may well be strong 10 year players available there but you really never know. It's always a risk trading picks around that area as there is always a chance of unearthing someone special, but trading the pick can always result in a big plus too, i guess thats the risk that we seem to be willing to take, provided we get the pick.

If North want to bend us over a barrel walk away - then we can just take him next year if we still want him once his contract is up.

Deal faltering through North's greed -

Trade wrap: 3 days to go.

We look elsewhere for a third up forward.

Am I the only person who read this and immediately thought of Jared Rivers?

Deal faltering through North's greed -

Trade wrap: 3 days to go.

We look elsewhere for a third up forward.

Great I'd be happy for us to walk away.

why do we need him, we have ruckmen and forwards.

sounds similar to Sellar.

write down our best 22, would he be in there and whst position.

Am I the only person who read this and immediately thought of Jared Rivers?

No, you're not. Our compo pick from FA explorers in Rivers and Moloney is apparently not good enough for one with 2 AFL games to his name this season; a former mature age recruit. Probably at the demands of an unhappy Brad Scott.

James Sellar is probably sitting at home praying that this deal completely falls apart.

I wouldn't mind him, I'm sure many would be happy for him to come across; but only for a realistic swap and for mine even 49 bordered on overs.

Glad to see we too are realistic as a club and can play hard ball too. North are playing with themselves

Still, I think it will still get done at trade ends knocking on the door. But to our terms or nothing.

Deal faltering through North's greed -

Trade wrap: 3 days to go.

We look elsewhere for a third up forward.

Mind you, the spin that's been put on it there is that we're 'struggling' to come up with a deal to satisfy North, not that they're being greedy (which obviously they are).

At least, I hope it's spin and we're not so desperate that we'll do something stupid.

And wouldn't you kick yourself if someone like Stringer was still available at pick 33?

Stringer will go in the top 6. Bulldogs ar in love with him.

Mind you, the spin that's been put on it there is that we're 'struggling' to come up with a deal to satisfy North, not that they're being greedy (which obviously they are).

At least, I hope it's spin and we're not so desperate that we'll do something stupid.

This is the crux. Greed, or in another view, overreaching. North have only themselves to blame should this trade falter. They set their own bar essentially with the HMac deal. Pick 36. By any litmus or comparison of value Pedersen is a good round below that in trade parlance. We're not talking player ability or role value, just trade value.

49 from us , if indeed true is magnanimous. In my thinking that's overs and feel in reality 63 or 70 is what it's worth. Sometimes you have to suffer and grin and bear it in order to move forward. So to do that maybe 49 is the magic pick?

Rumors abound for trades involving Martin, and even Martin AND Gysberts for 33 and 24 respectively.

Either of those picks is worth something far greater than Pedersen and is way above the bar values even set by North. North have backed themselves into a few corners with trades they want but seem to want others to pay for them.

Brayshaw, there's a Mr Kerrigan on the line for you !!!

It's tricky because the clubs have specific picks - something like this could work ...

Brisbane out: 33 & 53

Brisbane in: Martin & 39

Melbourne out: Martin & 49

Melbourne in: Pederson & 53

North out Pederson & 39

North in: 33 & 49

This is the crux. Greed, or in another view, overreaching. North have only themselves to blame should this trade falter. They set their own bar essentially with the HMac deal. Pick 36. By any litmus or comparison of value Pedersen is a good round below that in trade parlance. We're not talking player ability or role value, just trade value.

49 from us , if indeed true is magnanimous. In my thinking that's overs and feel in reality 63 or 70 is what it's worth. Sometimes you have to suffer and grin and bear it in order to move forward. So to do that maybe 49 is the magic pick?

Rumors abound for trades involving Martin, and even Martin AND Gysberts for 33 and 24 respectively.

Either of those picks is worth something far greater than Pedersen and is way above the bar values even set by North. North have backed themselves into a few corners with trades they want but seem to want others to pay for them.

Brayshaw, there's a Mr Kerrigan on the line for you !!!

You can only trade the pick number you have. AT this point we don't have a free 2nd rounder because we have committed it via F/S. We only have 3rd/4th rounder to give. So it's their choice to take it if we offer pick 49. Given they got rid of McIntosh for pick 39 I reckon 49 is overs but maybe they are trying to appease their supporters. No doubt some clubs are playing the PR game.

I have no idea if Pedro (gone all Mex on ya!) can play but I 100% get the strategy.

Whether he is a success or failure it is guaranteed that he will be ready to go round 1.

A later draft pick, especially a 190cm plus in all probability, you have to wait a minimum of 2 years plus to see anything worthwhile - Howe (who was more mature anyway) only started to show this year.

So the decision is to give a draft pick away for someone who is ready to go now against drafting someone we have to wait for (huge disclaimer that both the mature age player and the newbie could both be great successes or big spuds).

this is one player who we should all play hard ball on. Otherwise we will expect something great from him. Does anyone want this guy or only Melbourne?

It's tricky because the clubs have specific picks - something like this could work ...

Brisbane out: 33 & 53

Brisbane in: Martin & 39

Melbourne out: Martin & 49

Melbourne in: Pederson & 53

North out Pederson & 39

North in: 33 & 49

That would be criminal if it occurred, we would lose a player and 4 spots in the draft for Pederson; thanks but no thanks. If Brisbane are silly enough to pay 33 for Martin, which I doubt they are, then we must spent it wisely.

That would be criminal if it occurred, we would lose a player and 4 spots in the draft for Pederson; thanks but no thanks. If Brisbane are silly enough to pay 33 for Martin, which I doubt they are, then we must spent it wisely.

If all we are going to do with Martin and Pick 50 is try and get Pedersen and Ray then they are useful only if they get our intended targets.

Overpayment is irrelevant.