On 31/08/2012 at 00:05, PaulRB said:

The fact that Magner and Sellar were recruited was, in part, because both demonstrated the opposite of this culture, as in hunger, humility and a commitment to do the work required to prepare for the AFL.

And Bomba Thompson demanded Essendon recruited the Weapon into the club, to intimidate the players into action & to inspire them to gain muscle mass.

So he must reckon that not all gym trainers are equal or as effective. Remember I'm talking of carry over attitudes from generations, so this is not about the current new footy dept coaches.

  On 30/08/2012 at 12:31, Moonshadow said:

Look, I'm a little bit ambivalent about these reports of players behaviour, training rumours, etc in terms of accuracy. Many of them are heresay or Chinese whispers. Take em with a very large pich of salt.

They may very well have some sort of accuracy to them, but at the end of a disappointing season, it is important not to get carried away on 3rd hand info or Stalkerbook gossip and denigrate players. It's too easy and convenient to add 2 + 2 and get 10.

We have a very good, very committed, very serious coaching/support team with state of he art facilities. I don't think they would now let the players get away with f&rting out of line, let alone skylarking in the gym, cancelling training, etc (I am aware of the latter claim relating to Bailey not Neeld)

Yes, I know this is a supporter forum and half truths and rumour are commonplace. But let's not eat our own like so many other clubs do, eg Carlton at the moment.

And the shenanigans and unprofessionalism in China? Don't believe that either??

Our culture stinks and there has to be a reason for it. Don't know if this thread is genuine info or not but where there is smoke.......

Most players at other clubs I have spoken to (and that is a lot) laugh at Melbourne - their lack of fight, hardness, commitment etc. Must be something to it, we have had no leadership since Neitz, 12 CEOs in 10 years, crap on-field for the last 6 and we can't develop players. It's not pretty.

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:17, jnrmac said:

And the shenanigans and unprofessionalism in China? Don't believe that either??

Our culture stinks and there has to be a reason for it. Don't know if this thread is genuine info or not but where there is smoke.......

Most players at other clubs I have spoken to (and that is a lot) laugh at Melbourne - their lack of fight, hardness, commitment etc. Must be something to it, we have had no leadership since Neitz, 12 CEOs in 10 years, crap on-field for the last 6 and we can't develop players. It's not pretty.

We did, we had JnrMac.

The problem is one leader at a time isn't enough, & IMO Neitz is too nice to crack the whip. Jnr led but again one player can't change the culture. You 50 per cent of the people just to start the change.

Prima Donna's wreck cultures. We've had our share.

I'm leaning towards believing it simply because most of the team is weak and unfit.

Some might arue

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:17, jnrmac said:

And the shenanigans and unprofessionalism in China? Don't believe that either??

Our culture stinks and there has to be a reason for it. Don't know if this thread is genuine info or not but where there is smoke.......

Most players at other clubs I have spoken to (and that is a lot) laugh at Melbourne - their lack of fight, hardness, commitment etc. Must be something to it, we have had no leadership since Neitz, 12 CEOs in 10 years, crap on-field for the last 6 and we can't develop players. It's not pretty.

No disagreeing with you necessarily jnrmac. However, these rumours and hear says turn 'smoke' into a bushfire quickly on Land. Sometimes smoke is actually steam and hot air, particularly when started by a poster whose silence since is curious.

Much of the China trip too seems to be based upon rumour. If you can tell me you were there and spell out to us the events that supposedly happened, then i'll give it greater credit. The trip was post season, and the rumours seems to revolve around a former sooky no1 draft pick who is a proven liar.

If true, however, it has riddled us of HWFUA and given us two good draft picks. Not a bad outcome to many on here.

Adolf Hitler believed that if a lie was big enough and told often enough people would believe it. Let's not fall into the trap of believing everything everybody else says or writes. While this story may or may not be true, it has also been written (by journalist Charles Happell, I think) that Melbourne players were telling the coaches and administration what to do in the 1980s. And those players, he alleges, were Jim Stynes, Chris Connolly, Garry Lyon and Todd Viney. I have no idea if this is true, either.

Just to clarify...where there is smoke there often isn't fire. Just ask Lindy Chamberlain (and there are plenty more urban myths out there).

  On 30/08/2012 at 23:44, satyricon said:

last time I looked Cronk is a Storm player not Demons, so how would he know what sort of daily program each player has.......this is rubbish perpetuated by the usual suspects

And therein lies one of the issues I have with this thread... Cronk is a Storm player, he is NOT the Melbourne Storm. The topic title should actually be "Storm player Cronk's view of Dees training". Perhaps the topic starter is a trainee journo at the HUN? ;-)

Yes we do have a few skinny kids, but our biggest problem is that we lack pace. Jones, Magner, Tapscott, Clark, Frawley, Beamer, Sylvia, Sellar, MacDonald, McDonald, Jamar, Blease etc aren't exactly walking skeletons, but, apart from Blease, unfortunately lack the pace to get clear with the ball.

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:49, hardtack said:

And therein lies one of the issues I have with this thread... Cronk is a Storm player, he is NOT the Melbourne Storm. The topic title should actually be "Storm player Cronk's view of Dees training". Perhaps the topic starter is a trainee journo at the HUN? ;-)

Yes we do have a few skinny kids, but our biggest problem is that we lack pace. Jones, Magner, Tapscott, Clark, Frawley, Beamer, Sylvia, Sellar, MacDonald, McDonald, Jamar, Blease etc aren't exactly walking skeletons, but, apart from Blease, unfortunately lack the pace to get clear with the ball.

45 Yrs of Historical Failures don't lie! They point the finger in the direction of the problem.

It sometimes takes courage that your family is, indeed at fault. A failure. Disfunctional.

It pains to except criticism of the ones we love.

  On 30/08/2012 at 23:59, nutbean said:

Sorry,I take exception with your no doubt at all. I cannot comment at all about the effort those skinny boys put in in the gym but you are aware that no two peoples are the same and you are aware that there are body types that just cannot bulk up ? I saw Matty Lappin at a social function about two years ago and he said he was the curse of the Carlton weight room. No matter what they tried he could not bulk up.He pumped more weights than anyone but as soon as he went on the track to keep his fitness level up the 100gms of muscle fell off.

Yeah that does happen. Lots of cardio vascular exercise actually breaks down muscle, it's why marathon runners are so slim and why endurance cyclists also don't have a lot of muscle, the body focuses it's energy on muscle endurance and not muscle growth.

Finding the balance is the key and everyone's body is different. Some people pack on muscle really well, others don't, and of course you don't want to overdo it because that's when injuries either start to happen or make your pre-disposal to them a lot greater.

I got the impression that under Bailey we were more focused on running than strength hence why we had good speed but as soon as we came up against bigger bodied teams like Geelong that forced us to play hard contested footy we got smashed. Only a few players in our team could withstand that.

The Bombers seem to have swung the other way and which is probably why soft tissue injuries have killed them in the latter half as the bodies start breaking down.

I reckon we look bigger than last year, only just, but that is because Misson and co are adopting a steady process of building the players up properly.

I can't comment on the weight room banter but I think that may be in the past going by reports of the influence of guys like Clark who by all accounts have demanded some serious effort by his presence, let alone work-rate alone. I dare say Grimes and Trengove are no different.

Just can't expect any real results till 2014 I'd reckon

And here's a link to one of Charles Happell's writings referred to earlier. I'll believe the Cronk story - and every other piece of unattributed, unproven and unsubstantiated gossip - as much as I choose to believe this one.

Ah yes an opportunity to raise that wonderful word "Culture' again, and even 'party boys' got a gig as well, nice little post to get the few riled up and start spouting the same tired old cliches, give it a couple more pages and a Hun journalist will be able to add his two bobs worth and claim it is as factual.

Brad Green has had 13 yrs at AFL level, through hard work, he was just reminding the younger players of that, which I am sure Neeld would want him to, the inferrence was interpreted by certain posters to justify their point of view, I listened and it was about the fourth or fifth time Brad trotted out that line since he announced his retirement, it is part of the message the Club wants and Brad being the great Clubman has obliged...........

Just an example Cyril Rioli in his court testimony said he had been drinking bourbon and coke all nigh on a Mid season break, you didn't see the Club sanctioning him or the supporters calling for him to be delisted.....he has probably been given a quiet word and knows what he has to do...but he is a young guy and needs a bit of slack now and again

On here if Col Sylvia smiles the 'supporters' want him delisted, yes he has had a couple of misdemeanours but he copped his punishment, and if his strong showing last weekend is any indication he wants to repay the Club

If players don't cut it, they don't get their contracts renewed and get delisted simple as that. or moved on, Simon Buckley, Juice, Isaac Weetra, Chris Johnston etc etc.....some posters make it sound like the Club has kept the same list for the last 10 years

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:58, dee-luded said:

45 Yrs of Historical Failures don't lie! They point the finger in the direction of the problem.

It sometimes takes courage that your family is, indeed at fault. A failure. Disfunctional.

It pains to except criticism of the ones we love.

What tripe, dl.

What happened 45 yrs ago is irrelevant to now. Christ, not even our coach was alive then.

We pretty much all accept that Neeld and co were brought in to dramatically change how our playing group behaves and plays, that our culture, approach and list were insufficient to give us sustained success. This is an issue that I'm sure Neeld isn't scouring the history books of MFC to research it's origins. He'll be addressing the existing problem and looking to put a plan in place to change it.

The rest of your post is simply flailing mastu******n.

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:05, PaulRB said:

The fact that Magner and Sellar were recruited was, in part, because both demonstrated the opposite of this culture, as in hunger, humility and a commitment to do the work required to prepare for the AFL.

Yep, spot on. You can throw Couch in for good measure. I think we will see Neelds emphasis on those elements very strongly in the upcoming drafting period.

I have the feeling Sylvia has bought into the Neeld message and barring injury will be close to our most important player next year.

  On 30/08/2012 at 11:44, Canplay said:

I had breakfast with the Storm's Cooper Cronk recently and he shared a view on Dee's youngsters work ethic.

He said he looked at them in the gym (that they share at AAMI) and couldn't believe how lazy they are. He said they work through their sets with no intensity or purpose. The younger blokes clown around and none of the older blokes pull them into line. He said the Storms weight session intensity compared to the dees was a million miles apart.

After Green's swipe at some of the younger players, Jimmy's books observations and now this - it's no wonder Neeld wants to turnover half the list.

If this is true then Neeld should have been onto it before round one.

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:58, dee-luded said:

45 Yrs of Historical Failures don't lie! They point the finger in the direction of the problem.

It sometimes takes courage that your family is, indeed at fault. A failure. Disfunctional.

It pains to except criticism of the ones we love.

Huh?

  On 31/08/2012 at 01:14, Moonshadow said:

What tripe, dl.

What happened 45 yrs ago is irrelevant to now. Christ, not even our coach was alive then.

We pretty much all accept that Neeld and co were brought in to dramatically change how our playing group behaves and plays, that our culture, approach and list were insufficient to give us sustained success. This is an issue that I'm sure Neeld isn't scouring the history books of MFC to research it's origins. He'll be addressing the existing problem and looking to put a plan in place to change it.

The rest of your post is simply flailing mastu******n.

No your wrong moon. The club has only had success when it has had to go outside and import hardness & cultural change. As it did with Checker Hughes.

The culture lasted till the Cancerous culture sacked the honest Norm Smith.

Then the wheels continued to fall off.

Barassi returned & it took him & Jordan all of 5 Yrs to start the changes required to shift this Cancer.

A fresh face appeared & took the hard work forward from there.

The wheels soon fell OFF again & haven't really returned, even with some ventures up the ladder the Club culture still eats away at the Hunger.

I have to put what I put in another post....this is footy....all this twaddle about Culture etc.......sheesh....we are talking about sport......it doesn't change the world......it only impacts on you if you want it to.......it's fun reading some of the posts.....we are talking about an "industry" their word not mine so is so far removed from normal reality...you wonder how some of the young guys get theirs heads around it anyway...........if we could harness the hot air that is created from all the talking etc that now goes with footy we could probably power the planet for years in the future

22 guys train to run up and down a field kicking and handballing a strangely shaped ball in the hope of occasionally kicking it between some big sticks, 22 other guys try and stop them, they take turns doing this..

I go along to watch it happen, how the guys do everything before the game to get where they are I don't really care, just the two hours each weekend matter, but I listen to the Coach who says it will improve coz they have a plan, no idea what it is but he seems to so I'll see how it goes...........not really interested in 45 years ago, interested in this Saturday, then trade week, then the draft then next season

  On 31/08/2012 at 01:41, dee-luded said:

No your wrong moon. The club has only had success when it has had to go outside and import hardness & cultural change. As it did with Checker Hughes.

The culture lasted till the Cancerous culture sacked the honest Norm Smith.

Then the wheels continued to fall off.

Barassi returned & it took him & Jordan all of 5 Yrs to start the changes required to shift this Cancer.

A fresh face appeared & took the hard work forward from there.

The wheels soon fell OFF again & haven't really returned, even with some ventures up the ladder the Club culture still eats away at the Hunger.

As I said, this is irrelevant to today. Ask Neeld if he is concerned with what happened half a century ago. Dont see him talking about the 1960s in any interviews. I'll trust his call.

FYI, it's 2012. Do you want to be beamed up, Scotty?

  On 31/08/2012 at 01:20, thaipantsman said:

If this is true then Neeld should have been onto it before round one.

It is an interesting aspect.

I have a take on whats transpired at the Dees, but my caveat is its only my opinion

Context.

There is much written on these pages that seemingly makes observatiosns on this year as though it is in some way in isolation. Its not.

This year is the first of 3 for Neeld. I have the gut feeling that the Board actually are looking at 5 but this may have seemed overgenerous at the beginning so things were tempered with 3 and a "look and see" overview.. Now this puts 2012 in a position of being the START to things. Neeld stated from the outset that he would watch and make value judgements as to the players upon what he saw. This initally was taken to be the preseason but I think in Marks thinking that 2012 represents the 'larger" look and judgement of the club ( player wise )

its ok to put in a good preseason and maybe camouflage your actual dedication but over a season all is revealed. Possibly Neeld has stood back a little and just fed yards and yards of rope to all and sundry who would take it. Not being draconian in repsect of overseeing at the gym and such might be part of this strategy. i.e Lets see who actually applies themselves. Who walks the walk.

Noone has anywhere to run to now. Neeld and the FD will now know the tru nature and character of all those who aspire to donning the red and blue.

Players have had their chances. Some took to it with gusto, some spat the dummy, some just arent up to it and some maybe just didnt realise they were performing a year long test.

Same context EOS-2012 and season 2013 onwards

Neeld enacts Phase 2. A broom (or as some would prefer a scythe ) swept through the team and replacements brought in. A quite different Demon team takes to the track and the game ramps up.

Summary.. 2012 was about sifting Wheat from the chaff.

Post 2012. Time to bake a premiership pie

  On 31/08/2012 at 00:09, dee-luded said:

And Bomba Thompson demanded Essendon recruited the Weapon into the club, to intimidate the players into action & to inspire them to gain muscle mass.

Errrrr and how did that work out for them again?......

  On 30/08/2012 at 11:44, Canplay said:

I had breakfast with the Storm's Cooper Cronk recently and he shared a view on Dee's youngsters work ethic.

He said he looked at them in the gym (that they share at AAMI) and couldn't believe how lazy they are. He said they work through their sets with no intensity or purpose. The younger blokes clown around and none of the older blokes pull them into line. He said the Storms weight session intensity compared to the dees was a million miles apart.

After Green's swipe at some of the younger players, Jimmy's books observations and now this - it's no wonder Neeld wants to turnover half the list.

I've heard exactly the same thing. One of my uni lecturers is support staff at the storm and he told me this earlier on the year. He said the way they train is an absolute joke, no intensity etc. He said Watts is a joke (don't shoot the messenger, I like the bloke), and that they could not believe how they take their training sessions.

I'd be interested to hear from those who bemoan our 'culture' etc and 45+ years of failure on the subject of the 45 years (or so) of failure of the Bulldogs and St Kilda. What's wrong with their culture?

BTW, did you ever see the Junction Oval facilities? How could anyone be 'professional' there and see themselves in the same league as Cwood, Carlton etc.

  On 30/08/2012 at 12:34, stuie said:

Lol at everyone immediately believing someone with 29 posts....

Since when does the number of posts affect the legitimacy of the point being made ?

Extraordinary post.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:11, Moonshadow said:

As I said, this is irrelevant to today. Ask Neeld if he is concerned with what happened half a century ago. Dont see him talking about the 1960s in any interviews. I'll trust his call.

FYI, it's 2012. Do you want to be beamed up, Scotty?

As I said it is relevant because it's the culture of the club that softens everything that comes into it's comfort zone.

Most people who come in fall into the comfortable security trap of the MCC/MFC.

It has been since it's inception, & as I said it stopped with Checker Hughes, (who renamed the club as one tool to help change the pastel colors) And checker taught Smith who eventually got to carry on that torch.

Until has was Got.

Our best footy since was in the late 80's - early 90's,,, after Barassi/Jordan + Barry Richardson, Dick Seddon, Ray Manley, etc rebuilt the side/list into a battle hardened one thru the kids coming in. + Sean & Jimma, Bails, Balls, Yeates, etc, etc. Prodigy's of Jordan & Barass.

That hardened team withered after another 5 Yrs or so.

We still had a good list thru the 90's, BUT, where oh where did that intensity & professional hardness go? We should have blasted the opposition away.

But we IMO were comfortable in Hollywood boulevard.

  On 31/08/2012 at 02:41, BLWNBA said:

I've heard exactly the same thing. One of my uni lecturers is support staff at the storm and he told me this earlier on the year. He said the way they train is an absolute joke, no intensity etc. He said Watts is a joke (don't shoot the messenger, I like the bloke), and that they could not believe how they take their training sessions.

Just wondering, how many sports scientists to we employ, and how many does this AFL team Storm employ? Oh wait, they're NRL and train completely differently and have NO understanding of the completely different AFL teams train and recover.

Ugghhhh... this thread is getting worse, we have enough witch hunts and lynch mobs here already.