...you seem to be making the same mistake others have and that is because Salem looks like Toumpas he plays like him. He doesn't, he is a hard in and under player who loves to tackle but who also has a great kick on him.

Yes, but he's not a ready built solid guy who will smash it in his first year, ala Wines. HH was saying Sydney would have taken Wines over Toumpas and it has already been pointed out that's not consistent with the facts, and if you listen to Roos lately you will hear him talk development, not ready made.

The footy world new after one year that Joel Selwood was going to be a star. They knew he'd be a mile better than that softy Gibbs.

History is repeating. I don't need another 5 years to know we stuffed up.

Although, you were the one that put forward the notion from one of your recruiter buddies Nathan Buckley that players can't be properly compared until the end of their careers.

Although, you were the one that put forward the notion from one of your recruiter buddies that players can't be properly compared until the end of their careers.

He meant unless you're Ben Hur/Hannibal/The Myth, cos clearly he knows before anybody.

I like him. He's more outside, but he also goes when he has to. He's got elite endurance, great skills and makes good decisions. A worthy pick 2. He wasn't what we needed, so getting Tyson was a good call, but unlike some others I really rate Kelly.

Salem is known for being hard at the footy. We won't see the same issues we see with Toumpas and Watts. Salem's biggest knock is not winning enough footy.

I have no problem with outside players, Robbie is my favourite footballer of all time and was as brave as they come, I just don't rate players who lack any physicality.

I think the leap from TAC to Seniors AFL is huge and underestimated when selecting talent. The apparent lack of physicality doesn't manifest itself until these boys hit the big time. I'm reminded of Col Sylvia whose TAC report card looks more like a rap sheet - he had the big body from day one and was described as a "tackling machine" who bullied everyone in the TAC - brought that to the main game too rarely.

The reason Judd went no 3 was solely because of his suspect shoulders.

Whilst the shoulders were obviously the main reason he slipped to 3 I think at least part of the reason Hodge and Bell went above him was that they were both super solid citiznes with strong leadership skills.

Although, you were the one that put forward the notion from one of your recruiter buddies Nathan Buckley that players can't be properly compared until the end of their careers.

I've already answered this.

It's called having an "opinion". I'm happy to be called on it down the track.

I've already answered this.

It's called having an "opinion". I'm happy to be called on it down the track.

So, which is it then? You compare players after one season or after their careers have wound up?

I've already answered this.

It's called having an "opinion". I'm happy to be called on it down the track.

Yes, although you have been happy to 'call' the opinions of others in this very thread.

Whilst the shoulders were obviously the main reason he slipped to 3 I think at least part of the reason Hodge and Bell went above him was that they were both super solid citiznes with strong leadership skills.

Very small part - Judd was a lock for number one like Scully was right up until the time of shoulder problems. As an aside - look at the honor board at East Sandringham - he was getting club championships down there when he still in his mothers womb

Yes, but he's not a ready built solid guy who will smash it in his first year, ala Wines. HH was saying Sydney would have taken Wines over Toumpas and it has already been pointed out that's not consistent with the facts, and if you listen to Roos lately you will hear him talk development, not ready made.

Agree with development and am interested to see how Salem goes. He is quite solid though 'stuie' if you stand next to him, very strong through the legs. I think one reason he is being held back is the thyroid problem that they seem to be monitoring.

Who's Oliver Wines?

Dont you mean who's Oliver PICK ME Wines.

I am not by any stretch writing Toumpas off but last year did our entire team have 19 contested touches all together, Wines is a fighter and a half.

Important to consider Wines is playing in a team that looks very together, focused and energised. Toumpas is playing in a team that has been dysfunctional and yet to demonstrate it can get its act together. Far easier to play like a million dollar baby with the outstanding support and team elan Wines enjoys. Just dying to see what we dish up first round. No doubt both have talent but some grow up in the right families.

Yes, although you have been happy to 'call' the opinions of others in this very thread.

Of course. Some with which you agree and some you disagree. It's called "life".

What other pearls do you have ?

Of course. Some with which you agree and some you disagree. It's called "life".

What other pearls do you have ?

Well, one opinion comes to mind...

lol

Bring on the footy.

For what its worth i rate people who show a semblance of grace and capacity to engage in intelligent argument over narcissists who rely on simplistic, dismissive insults to make their points.

Second on the left, third door along. This is Demonland.

Well, one opinion comes to mind...

lol

Bring on the footy.

By all means share it. Or are you a shrinking violet ?

Rubbish, I thought he was good against the Tigers and good aganst the Cats. His delivery inside 50 has been outstanding. He has been a star in the training I have gone to and also showed a bit in the intraclub games. He has been in the top dozen players in this club during the preseason by any measure. His game against the Hawks was ordinary but he was not on his own there, they were unbelievable.

True.

You need to pull your head in and have a listen to Roos speech at the season launch. If you are expecting BOG efforts by our first and second year players you will spend you spend you life a very disappointed person.

True again.

Sydney 2009 - first two picks Rohan and Jetta - hardly what you call in an under type footballers.

Same draft - Geelong picked up Daniel Menzel with their first pick ?

Hannibal is "OWNED".

Interestingly - Rohan and Menzel went around about where they were expected to be taken - the BEST picks at the selection.

OWNED again Hannibal!

Yet they both missed ( like all others) on big bodied Nat Fyfe at no 20.

Yep, again Han.

You seriously have no idea who they would have taken.

I like him. He's more outside, but he also goes when he has to. He's got elite endurance, great skills and makes good decisions. A worthy pick 2. He wasn't what we needed, so getting Tyson was a good call, but unlike some others I really rate Kelly.

Salem is known for being hard at the footy. We won't see the same issues we see with Toumpas and Watts. Salem's biggest knock is not winning enough footy.....

What the F. When your off the drugs, come back Han.

I have no problem with outside players, Robbie is my favourite footballer of all time and was as brave as they come, I just don't rate players who lack any physicality.

.

Hannibal, stop talking mate. You've dug a hole big enough to park your fat gut in mate.

Yes just like the Silvia haters and the Morton haters

May have slipped your notice but Sylvia was on the list for 10yrs and Morton played 73 or so games.

Would be good if people could reserve judgement until the kid has played a few games.

WOn't happen around here though. Cos they are all such geniuses.

I've already answered this.

It's called having an "opinion". I'm happy to be called on it down the track.

There's an old saying Hannibal, "opinions are like ar--holes, everyone's got one".

I love the way Ollie plays, but we have Jimmy. I say support our players no matter what, especially the young ones making their way. These guys are the future of our Club, and with Roosy's direction, I stand by the MFC all the way. Like everyone here, I have been through the crap years, but you have to go through them to really appreciate the good ones. Jimmy, Jack, Christian, Dom and ournother Young Ones are the future and we better get behind them. If you don't like what we have, go to the Collingwood page Mate and stay the hell there. Don't need to see the spew from your mouth anymore.

There's an old saying Hannibal, "opinions are like ar--holes, everyone's got one".

I love the way Ollie plays, but we have Jimmy. I say support our players no matter what, especially the young ones making their way. These guys are the future of our Club, and with Roosy's direction, I stand by the MFC all the way. Like everyone here, I have been through the crap years, but you have to go through them to really appreciate the good ones. Jimmy, Jack, Christian, Dom and ournother Young Ones are the future and we better get behind them. If you don't like what we have, go to the Collingwood page Mate and stay the hell there. Don't need to see the spew from your mouth anymore.

Jack needs to get on the field first

By all means share it. Or are you a shrinking violet ?

Shrinking violet?

lol

I wonder if Toumpas will play this week.

He might be a chance...

Jack needs to get on the field first

He will Olisik, he will. Give the kid some time. When he gets back, he will be ready to Rock & Roll my friend. He's come from a fair way back. Just like some other kid on our list who's name escapes me for now? Back'em in mate.

Ok but Nutbean, recruiting isn't an exact science! I never went with ratings, always with what our greatest need was. It really was elementary our greatest need was for Grunt! The fact we went for something different has nothing to do with draft order, ratings etc. I'll tell you now we stuffed up massively!

I'm skipping a lot of posts in this thread, they're all the same anyway, but this one stood out.

I'm sorry, but to say we had an 'elementary need' at all, let alone it being grunt, is just silly. We needed everything (and we still need a lot of things). We needed skill just as much as we needed grunt, and we needed pace, and good contested marking, and a long-term ruckman, and half-back flankers, and fitness. The list was enormous.

Of course, another scenario that many don't think about is if we had indeed taken Wines (along with Viney), improved in our 'grunt', and then watched as Wines and Viney and Jones and Grimes and Trengove struggled for assistance outside. Then some would have said 'hey, look at Toumpas, gee he's got a great kick and awareness on him. We should have taken him!'.

Shrinking violet?

lol

I wonder if Toumpas will play this week.

He might be a chance...

Look, I've established you like this LOL expression, but if you have anything meaningful to say let me know.

You will respond, nothing is more certain, so be coherent.