Now it's time for the serious question

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Throw into that lack of fitness (either for the kicker or the receivers), lack of confidence, lack of experience, and lack of stability (in the team) etc. etc., and you have all the recipes needed for poor skill execution. You're right about making bad decisions - but they should hardly need to be making decisions at all if everyone was doing what they're supposed to, and getting to where they should be (for which, see above re fitness, confidence, stability in the team, experience etc.)

It's all interrelated, and it only needs a couple of those components to be a little out of kilter to see the kind of performance we saw last night.

What you say may be true but when I see a player/players unable to execute a simple 30 metre pass to a team mate, when under no pressure,

I reckon it's a lack of skill. We seem incapable of displacing the basic principles of football and it's not getting better.

Jetta made some unbelievable errors last night as did Garland and Frawley.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm not overly down because I'm getting what I expected. It's round 17 after-all, so I've had a fair test sample throughout the year. I've only tipped Melbourne twice inaccurately. I tipped them in round one to beat Brisbane and I tipped Essendon to beat them. Obviously I tipped Port last night.

Last night we had 10 more inside 50's, far more tackles, and just about the same number of disposals, but our system and delivery into the forward-line was very poor. We constantly have the same issue - the midfield, although it was good to see Jones fight through a slow start and cope with a tight tag from Kane Cornes. That's a bit of a break-through for him. Moving forward I like the backs - Frawley, Tom McDonald, Watts, Grimes, Nicholson ...; the forwards with Clark, Jurrah, Howe, need support, but hopefully Garland is developed there, as his brain fades are less costly and we need a dangerous small; the rucks are solid if unspectacular.

I wish Neeld played Trengove in the middle and not forward, as he did in the first quarter and I look forward to some midfield additions at year's end. Viney isn't a messiah, no player is, but with a quality inside mid, plus hopefully two other top 5 draft talents we'll start assembling some quality where we need it. It will still take a few years, but rather than seeing Couch and Magner run around I'll be seeing genuine talent that will evolve. The midfield is crucial, but arguably the easiest area to fix. Selwood, Bartel, Judd, Pendlebury, Hodge, Cotchin, Scotty Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Sidebottom, Thomas, Goddard, Wells, Deledio are all first round draft picks. If all goes to plan at year's end we get three first round draft picks plus Viney. Imagine 4 of the above walking through the door as 19 year olds. If we were under the old zoning system I'd be far more perturbed, but our destiny is in our own hands. Get these picks right and we'll assemble top shelf talent. And there will be top shelf talent in this draft.

I know that plenty of you are sick of hearing about draft picks. If I felt the same I too would be in a state of despair. But I know that this year's draft opportunities are massive for the footy club. And I just thank God that Barry Prendergast won't be calling out the names.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Hannibal 5,814]

What you say may be true but when I see a player/players unable to execute a simple 30 metre pass to a team mate, when under no pressure,

I reckon it's a lack of skill.

I reckon it's a lack of talent.

[beelzebub 23,313]

. And I just thank God that Barry Pendegast won't be calling out the names.

this is all you really had to say

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm not overly down because I'm getting what I expected. It's round 17 after-all, so I've had a fair test sample throughout the year. I've only tipped Melbourne twice inaccurately. I tipped them in round one to beat Brisbane and I tipped Essendon to beat them. Obviously I tipped Port last night.

Last night we had 10 more inside 50's, far more tackles, and just about the same number of disposals, but our system and delivery into the forward-line was very poor. We constantly have the same issue - the midfield, although it was good to see Jones fight through a slow start and cope with a tight tag from Kane Cornes. That's a bit of a break-through for him. Moving forward I like the backs - Frawley, Tom McDonald, Watts, Grimes, Nicholson ...; the forwards with Clark, Jurrah, Howe, need support, but hopefully Garland is developed there, as his brain fades are less costly and we need a dangerous small; the rucks are solid if unspectacular.

I wish Neeld played Trengove in the middle and not forward, as he did in the first quarter and I look forward to some midfield additions at year's end. Viney isn't a messiah, no player is, but with a quality inside mid, plus hopefully two other top 5 draft talents we'll start assembling some quality where we need it. It will still take a few years, but rather than seeing Couch and Magner run around I'll be seeing genuine talent that will evolve. The midfield is crucial, but arguably the easiest area to fix. Selwood, Bartel, Judd, Pendlebury, Hodge, Cotchin, Scotty Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Sidebottom, Thomas, Goddard, Wells, Deledio are all first round draft picks. If all goes to plan at year's end we get three first round draft picks plus Viney. Imagine 4 of the above walking through the door as 19 year olds. If we were under the old zoning system I'd be far more perturbed, but our destiny is in our own hands. Get these picks right and we'll assemble top shelf talent. And there will be top shelf talent in this draft.

I know that plenty of you are sick of hearing about draft picks. If I felt the same I too would be in a state of despair. But I know that this year's draft opportunities are massive for the footy club. And I just thank God that Barry Prendergast won't be calling out the names.

I agree with most of what you say there but I doubt that the recruiting of some good young midfielders will immediately solve our problem; my guess is that we will have very few wins next year and will probably finish in a fairly low position on the ladder next year as well. We will probably have the chance to pick up some early talent in the 2013 draft as well.

It will be interesting to see if the AFL hand out any priority picks this year and if they do they couldn't give one to GC without giving one to us as well.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I agree with most of what you say there but I doubt that the recruiting of some good young midfielders will immediately solve our problem

Who said it would ? At least if we draft future A grade mids we know that we're not consigned to oblivion forever.

Supporters need to understand one thing, there's only one way to improve a crap side and that's through the draft. There is no other proven way. Teams such as Collingwood (Ball/Jolly) and Hawthorn (Dew) have topped up to win a flag, but there's only one way to develop a good list. And yes, once you've got your hands on them you need to develop them well and there's no doubt we've previously been poor in this regard. Sydney continually top up, but not from our crap position.

it's why this year's draft and the sensational hand we've been dealt is crucial.

EDIT: and the AFL are on record as saying that there will be no priority picks this year.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[tonatopia 278]

I've said it all over the past weeks. Nothing more to say. Maybe, I told you so!

[The heart beats true 18,110]

It's not worse than 2008 in execution on field but it's much worse in terms of hope.

It's pretty clear from the support at games that most believe we are going nowhere and have really resigned themselves to kicking the club. It's not pretty but it's not entirely unfounded either.

[Maldonboy38 6,390]

This era does feel very similar to the late 70's and early 80's with one exception - there was no draft then and we were stuck for a very long time. But I still reckon the footy I saw Melbourne play in the late 70's is the worst I have seen. I saw the Bomber beat the Dees at VFL park in about 78 or 79 and it just wasn't VFL standard - the top VFA sides would have beaten us that year I reckon.

This year is so poor because we have enough talent to be at least 9th - 12th, not languishing down the bottom. Our skill level is the worst in the AFL and I am watching less footy now than ever in the past 30 years.

[Hardnut 327]

This era does feel very similar to the late 70's and early 80's with one exception - there was no draft then and we were stuck for a very long time. But I still reckon the footy I saw Melbourne play in the late 70's is the worst I have seen. I saw the Bomber beat the Dees at VFL park in about 78 or 79 and it just wasn't VFL standard - the top VFA sides would have beaten us that year I reckon.

This year is so poor because we have enough talent to be at least 9th - 12th, not languishing down the bottom. Our skill level is the worst in the AFL and I am watching less footy now than ever in the past 30 years.

Well said Maldonboy - I saw a lot of that period also. I particularly agree with your comments on our talent and skills - is that addressed at training I wonder?

[wattsup 470]

May or may not be our worst year, but I've NEVER in my 30 years of being a Demon been as without hope as I am this year.

It feels like I'm not even following footy this year, and like my team doesn't have a soul at all.

I've never had a season before where my mood is so effected by it on non-game days.

this is how i feel im honestly just bored of it all and im finding myself not watching anymore, i would rather watch a movie with the wife and just check the scores when its finished, i still buy a membership and always will, but can you imagine what it will feel like when we do finally make finals. i have never been looking forward to draft day than i am right now, this year could end tommorow and i honestly couldnt care less.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Interesting watching the AFL Future stars before they had us taking Viney at 3 Grundy at 4 and Kennedy at 13; no Stringer in the top 21.

Whitfield at 1 and O'Rourke at 2.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Interesting watching the AFL Future stars before they had us taking Viney at 3 Grundy at 4 and Kennedy at 13; no Stringer in the top 21.

Whitfield at 1 and O'Rourke at 2.

It's worth noting that they did it purely on where they *ranked the players and not on a club's needs, or who they thought a club may choose.

*other than F/S selections.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Range Rover 1,935]

Interesting watching the AFL Future stars before they had us taking Viney at 3 Grundy at 4 and Kennedy at 13; no Stringer in the top 21.

Whitfield at 1 and O'Rourke at 2.

Did they mention Stringer at all? Very odd given the hype around him.

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

I saw the early 80's and they were hard but from 1987 to 2006 barring a couple of odd years here and there we were generally fairly decent. Throughout those years we maintained very strong cores of sides and have lacked that since 2006. We drafted bad during the Danniher era and he never had the quids at his disposal to rebuild another strong list, probably erred to in relying on those who continued to let him down when it got tough.

For me the season has not gone as expected but I had us finishing around 10th at best, I think with injuries and a lack of confidence we have underperformed despite a new coach and game plan we should have won more. Unlike Hardnut & Tonatopia I will not be slashing my wrists but found myself turning off last night about ten minutes from the end, which is something I have never done before.

I saw the same despair and lack of hope on Meth Coast fans 2 years ago and have been around long enough to know things change in footy and get your rebuild and structures right like Magpies & Cats from 1999 & Hawks from 2004 and you can have yourselves up there for a decade and in with a shot of a flag every so many years with a few tweeks to a list.

Wont say roll on dratf period & 2013 because we will be better, but I expect improvement without setting the world on fire

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It's worth noting that they did it purely on where they *ranked the players and not on a club's needs, or who they thought a club may choose.

*other than F/S selections.

That's true, but to not rank Stringer in the top 21 surprised me.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Did they mention Stringer at all? Very odd given the hype around him.

No mention at all, so either they are wary of his recovery or just don't rank him highly, perhaps they will adopt the wait and see.

[Ned 156]

I'm not sure this is the worst season. But it's the first season I've stopped enjoying footy and felt really depressed about the team. In 2008-09 I bought the story. I don't see a story at the moment. Hopefully we can really turn it next year.

[The Reverend 1,736]

IMO yes it is the worst year l have ever seen, l was a kid growing up in 70's and early 80's and we were rubbish then but at least we had a go. This team is the most spineless gutless bunch of human beings ever to play for Demons, they need to clear out about a dozen players.

But that's the point isn't it? Neeld and co are in the process of cleaning up the mess created over previous years that allowed us to accumulate these players. Those that can't look at what's going on at the moment and see it in a positive light will never see the glass as anything but half empty. This year is a necessary evil. It's painful to watch but we are seeing the club expose those who are not up to it. They are being given chances to show their stuff and can have no complaints come the end of year cull that will inevitably take place. Those who point to Bailey's eight wins last year are kidding themselves. We have a rubbish list and it needs to be cleaned out. It can't be done without some objective assessment of what's there. That means providing opportunities and seeing who has what it takes.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Crawf52

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I saw the early 80's and they were hard but from 1987 to 2006 barring a couple of odd years here and there we were generally fairly decent. Throughout those years we maintained very strong cores of sides and have lacked that since 2006. We drafted bad during the Danniher era and he never had the quids at his disposal to rebuild another strong list, probably erred to in relying on those who continued to let him down when it got tough.

For me the season has not gone as expected but I had us finishing around 10th at best, I think with injuries and a lack of confidence we have underperformed despite a new coach and game plan we should have won more. Unlike Hardnut & Tonatopia I will not be slashing my wrists but found myself turning off last night about ten minutes from the end, which is something I have never done before.

I saw the same despair and lack of hope on Meth Coast fans 2 years ago and have been around long enough to know things change in footy and get your rebuild and structures right like Magpies & Cats from 1999 & Hawks from 2004 and you can have yourselves up there for a decade and in with a shot of a flag every so many years with a few tweeks to a list.

Wont say roll on dratf period & 2013 because we will be better, but I expect improvement without setting the world on fire

I'm the same, I don't despair but I realise that the club must get the next couple of drafts right or there will be no recovery. We have a poor list with a bunch of players that are simply not up to AFL Level and recruiting good VFL players won't win us a flag it will be replacing one NQR with another. Love the endeavour of Magner but he ain't a top line mid and that's what we need.

The club must demand more from the existing players like Howe, who can't just drifts in and out with a couple of speccies here and there but not much else, or Sylvia who seem to choose when he goes and when he doesn't. There are too many players that go missing for too long in games.

Midfielders, strong, fast, and skilled that's what we need no more tall skinny "may be good" players. Begone with the NQR's, delist them so the temptation to give them one more try is no longer there.

[Dr. Mubutu 831]

If only more than quarter of the team were a decent kick. You have to wonder what exactly they're doing at training to have skill levels this poor. I've said it before and I'll say it again: we just have a list of DUMB footballers. Blaming the gameplan is the world's biggest cop out. They've had 10 months with this gameplan and the skills are still pox. Bring on the mass delistings.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Dr. Mubutu

[Carrot Top 947]

I've seen worse of the field in the 70's and 80's, but by God nothing comes close to how horrible the last twelve months has been for us as a club. From the moment the ball was bounced to start the 186 game we've been smashed from pillar to post with just about every piece of bad luck possible. About the only thing that has gone right was the snaffling of Clark and then he's gone for the season now.

I'm just waiting for the season to end where hopefully I will see a whole raft of NQR players given the boot, and where we will draft the best available (not for needs) and maybe trade for a need or two.

[The heart beats true 18,110]

I'm just waiting for the season to end where hopefully I will see a whole raft of NQR players given the boot, and where we will draft the best available (not for needs) and maybe trade for a need or two.

Carrot Top you better hope those 'best availables' aren't scrawny outside mids or I'm going to lose it.

[Guest KingDingAling]

Its a very bad year.

Whether we draft the wrong kids or cant develop those drafted, Im not sure.

But I believe we should do whatever we can to land picks 1 and 2.

Put the boys on ice, I'd rather take a few losses in a year that means nothing

and land the 2 top picks and have Viney in the second round.

Absolutely has to be done.

[old dee 23,782]

Its a very bad year.

Whether we draft the wrong kids or cant develop those drafted, Im not sure.

But I believe we should do whatever we can to land picks 1 and 2.

Put the boys on ice, I'd rather take a few losses in a year that means nothing

and land the 2 top picks and have Viney in the second round.

Absolutely has to be done.

KDL we do not have to tank mate there is a very good chance we will finish last or second last when we are trying.