Toumpas v Stringer v Wines

[Sir Why You Little 36,892]

Whilst his cards may be marked, its nothing to do with selection this week seeing as he missed last weeks VFL game as he was recovering from concussion.

Dean Kents cards must be marked also as he is not playing

His card has been marked since he dropped that absolute sitter in Round 1

Pressure.

[SaberFang 7,151]

We desperately need to draft kids who aren't affected by pressure.

[Adam The God 30,021]

Seems like a lovely kid, but I've made my peace with Toumpas not making it. We move on. I think he'll be traded at year's end.

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

Seems like a lovely kid, but I've made my peace with Toumpas not making it. We move on. I think he'll be traded at year's end.

See, I really don't get this. Unless he is part of some massive win package for us why would a kid have currency with another club when he's not a starter in our 22 (that lost to Essendo and Carlton ffs)

Also we all [censored] and moan about not having the depth to take the time to develop kids properly in the magoos like a Hawthorn can, but the moment some 20 year old isn't getting a game we want to trade him out for a packet of half eaten salt and vinegar chips.

[Sir Why You Little 36,892]

See, I really don't get this. Unless he is part of some massive win package for us why would a kid have currency with another club when he's not a starter in our 22 (that lost to Essendo and Carlton ffs)

Also we all [censored] and moan about not having the depth to take the time to develop kids properly in the magoos like a Hawthorn can, but the moment some 20 year old isn't getting a game we want to trade him out for a packet of half eaten salt and vinegar chips.

He has had more than enough chances to show something...

Just does not have the right attitude...

[Uncle Fester 2,848]

He has had more than enough chances to show something...

Just does not have the right attitude...

Expand on the attitude comment please

[SaberFang 7,151]

I don't think there's anything wrong with his attitude, but how do you teach a kid not to panic under pressure?

You either have those core instincts or you don't, but it's frankly gobsmacking to me how he was drafted in the first place. I can understand why teams passed on Stringer (and how Lever fell so far last year), but Wines should not have come as a shock. Bull in a china shop.

Were the effects of pressure acts simply not factors in drafting 3 years ago? Hard to believe considering how huge a leap it is between suburban leagues and the AFL.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I don't think there's anything wrong with his attitude, but how do you teach a kid not to panic under pressure?

You either have those core instincts or you don't, but it's frankly gobsmacking to me how he was drafted in the first place. I can understand why teams passed on Stringer (and how Lever fell so far last year), but Wines should not have come as a shock. Bull in a china shop.

Were the effects of pressure acts simply not factors in drafting 3 years ago? Hard to believe considering how huge a leap it is between suburban leagues and the AFL.

Far too much emphasis is placed on SANFL form with junior players.

Melbourne simply got cute by trying to compliment Viney's inside grunt with outside run (ironically Toumpas is slower than Viney).

I still remember watching Wines in his first NAB Cup game and Ricciuto was commentating, basically said two inside grunt players (Wines and Viney) are better than one.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Definitely a contributing factor, that the SANFL might not be all it's cracked up to be.

We definitely tried to get a little cute, rather than going the "sure thing." Safe to say that mistake hasn't been made since Roos came on board. It's reassuring to know that Cockatoo and Lever were our other two targets if we'd managed extra first rounders last year, considering both have shown so much promise since debuting.

But anyway, we move forward to another great chance to get things right. Between pick 5, Howe's pick and presumably Garland's compo, we should be able to secure enough established talent AND quality young kids inside to secure our future.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We did well with Kent and Viney in that draft. Considering where both were taken, I think we did well with those 2. In regards to Toumpas, I'd be keen to cut him loose for a second round pick. I think we could cash him in for a second round pick, use it on Lovell or Gresham, that would be the way to go.

I didn't bump this thread to have a go at our club, but rather the keyboard warrior recruiters, who go so heavy at other posters for putting their thoughts & opinions about their hopes.

its about those who try to belittle others for stating their thoughts, just as we all have the right to do in our society... its about the denigrating & attempted ridiculing in a serious fashion, to injure others.

thats why I bumped this.. I think/hope this is an extension of what Roosy was talking about, if I read him correctly.

& also too pump up your tyres KDA, & another, I forget who it was... If I go back & Reread the thread, I'll find the good intuitive posters who got it pretty close to right.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Exactly

Ever club passed over Chris Grant multiple times, like they all did with James Hird, who, as a player, was fantastic.

Every club got those very wrong.

I wonder if their supporter blogs go mad over this lack of crystal ball?

A thread dug from the depths about recruiting? Yep, more negativity.

Honestly though, I don't see the point in worrying about the past when it can't be changed. All clubs have made a balls up at some point in their recruiting.

It's time to move forward people.

assume.... ass u me. assume

[dee-luded 2,959]

A thread dug from the depths about recruiting? Yep, more negativity.

Honestly though, I don't see the point in worrying about the past when it can't be changed. All clubs have made a balls up at some point in their recruiting.

It's time to move forward people.

assume, ass u me, assume.

I think this sort of mean spirited ness is just what Roosy was referring to.... instead of asking for clarification, you go out & accuse, & still get it wrong. but that won't stop you will it, or the other invertebrates who do likewise.

this bump; is about just this sort of negative attacking type of post, created without any semblance of creative spirit, in its intentions.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I don't see the point of trading Toumpas now. He's worth nothing on the trade table. There's a chance, albeit a slim one, that he could start showing some consistent form next year. He's showed signs so far I guess but not much more than that. Might as well keep him for next year and delist after that if he doesn't make the best 22.

& this is normal for the more timid types, they take longer to grow into senior footy. see watts is name?

I find it an interesting stat that Hird was taken so late in the draft, but it also shows that the focus on the draft has probably changed a lot since that era.

It's a fact that as soon as their name is called out and they join that club, the number they were taken means very little to nothing. But the media and often us supporters won't forget that.

wasn't he father son?????

also not strictly true of thompson.

he was a lock in our side in his last year for us, then broke his arm, and when he got fit we were flying so it was tough to break back in.

prior to that season,

As much as I desperately want Jimmy to make it, he just doesn't have football smarts, makes stupid mistakes, too slow for the game!!

well he did in the U-18's, so he hasn't made the transition yet...

thompson was dirty on the coach for not giving him a go. it was well talked about at that time around the training sessions.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I don't think there's anything wrong with his attitude, but how do you teach a kid not to panic under pressure?

You either have those core instincts or you don't, but it's frankly gobsmacking to me how he was drafted in the first place. I can understand why teams passed on Stringer (and how Lever fell so far last year), but Wines should not have come as a shock. Bull in a china shop.

Were the effects of pressure acts simply not factors in drafting 3 years ago? Hard to believe considering how huge a leap it is between suburban leagues and the AFL.

composure is learnt (or taught), so is panic & over anxiousness.

& it can be reversed as well. with self development, insight & learning to trust in yourself.

Greg Norman was composed, as long as the quest wasn't bigger than he was... he could win anything, until the things he wanted the most, the deepest meaning things to him he mucked up, because he held them too high, higher than himself.

treat things with a dash of contempt, as well as your opponents. & respect your own frailties, but strive hard.... & never ever give in.

[titan_uranus 24,963]

But we also need to applaud those Demonlander's who picked it before the fact.

No, we don't.

If this was another era, we would have blamed Toumpas's slow rise on our "development" inadequacy at the club. That is another debate for another day.

What does this mean? You think our 'development' is still A-grade, and was in 2013?

Far too much emphasis is placed on SANFL form with junior players.

Melbourne simply got cute by trying to compliment Viney's inside grunt with outside run (ironically Toumpas is slower than Viney).

I still remember watching Wines in his first NAB Cup game and Ricciuto was commentating, basically said two inside grunt players (Wines and Viney) are better than one.

Cute? It's not like we did a Gysberts or a Cook and picked some unknown. Toumpas was rated by many to be better than Wines.

If we'd taken Wines, we'd still be a bottom 6 side right now, and you'd be saying 'why would we take two identical players when we are crying out for uncontested possessions and outside run? How stupid of Melbourne'.

[olisik 4,060]

Why hasn't Toump even been playing in the 2s? When he came off from a bump a couple of weeks back and was seen talking to his dad at half time in the sidelines do you guys think his card was marked then? Has he been at training since?

[dazzledavey36 54,084]

Why hasn't Toump even been playing in the 2s? When he came off from a bump a couple of weeks back and was seen talking to his dad at half time in the sidelines do you guys think his card was marked then? Has he been at training since?

Because he has two knocks to the head in a space of 3 weeks

Health becomes priority first and i am glad the club is taking a safe approach

[picket fence 16,981]

"Cute? It's not like we did a Gysberts or a Cook and picked some unknown. Toumpas was rated by many to be better than Wines.

If we'd taken Wines, we'd still be a bottom 6 side right now, and you'd be saying 'why would we take two identical players when we are crying out for uncontested possessions and outside run? How stupid of Melbourne'"

I doubt it, Wines is a better midfielder than any we have by a mile, so saying we would be still be bottom six is speculation. Regarding Jimmy Toumpas, he may well have been rated better by many but not me. I always wanted Wines. Main point being how the hell could we have gambled so much by picking a bloke who had major surgery to not one but two hips??

Amazing, did we not think that this might lead to one of his main problems ( which seemed to be a strength) of now lacking pace?

Astounding stuff from our recruiters!

[Gorgoroth 12,910]

Can't have surgery to two hips. We only have one.

Ha ha.

I think he should get a two year extension, I think he can still make it, wether he does is another matter.

[Macca 16,900]

The draft is an ass. These kids are too young when they're drafted and that's the reason why things will often not work out ... nothing is going to change unless they change the system.

Getting "better" recruiters won't make an ounce of difference either when we're talking about top end draft picks. The number of top juniors (who are usually picked in the top 5 or top 10) who don't make the grade backs up my point. I'd say at least half of these "top" juniors don't get to play 100 games and most (80-90%) never attain true A grade status.

Yet there's an assumption here and elsewhere that a top end draft pick should be an automatic A grader.

Either all the recruiters are basically incompetent or the system is a bad one. Take your pick but logic and common sense should find one leaning heavily towards the latter explanation. We pluck these teenage kids out of high school and continue to place totally unrealistic expectations on them. Many base their opinion on the number attached to these kids and that number is often altogether inaccurate.

It's grossly unfair.

.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Macca

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,298]

See, I really don't get this. Unless he is part of some massive win package for us why would a kid have currency with another club when he's not a starter in our 22 (that lost to Essendo and Carlton ffs)

Also we all [censored] and moan about not having the depth to take the time to develop kids properly in the magoos like a Hawthorn can, but the moment some 20 year old isn't getting a game we want to trade him out for a packet of half eaten salt and vinegar chips.

Any chance Roos told McCartney to "see what the kids got".

Hence no contract offered.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If we'd taken Wines, we'd still be a bottom 6 side right now, and you'd be saying 'why would we take two identical players when we are crying out for uncontested possessions and outside run? How stupid of Melbourne'.

But we'd be looking at what Toumpas was doing at another club and thinking how lucky we were to dodge that bullet.

[rpfc 28,220]

There's nothing wrong with the SANFL - we just recruited the third best player from the NEAFL and he would be lower than in the SANFL.

The problem with recruiting kids based on promising SANFL or WAFL performances is that they are not shouldering load - they are bit players playing a role that may mean getting footy more easily than it would be if they were the focus of the opposition like they would be in juniors.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The problem with recruiting kids based on promising SANFL or WAFL performances is that they are not shouldering load - they are bit players playing a role that may mean getting footy more easily than it would be if they were the focus of the opposition like they would be in juniors.

Which is what I was getting at with "junior players".

[rpfc 28,220]

Which is what I was getting at with "junior players".

Yeah, there are some that equate the failure of Toumpas and other kids to a judgment on the SANFL itself - it's not that simple.