Some of the comments on this thread are just fanciful.

How does the club delist Davey for instance? I had thought he was contracted until the end of next season.

Morton? Some people here may not rate him (I think he has upside still), but on any construction the club would try to trade him if they wished to move him on - why simply delist him?

All clubs are now looking at the VFL for some effective, mature bodied depth players. Bate and Dunn, by VFL standards, more than fit that category - and that's why I understand Neeld stopped Bate being traded to the Bulldogs. They have a role IMO. Not everyone will be Buddy Franklin.

The lack of evidence based thinking that often occurs here is as troubling as some of the performances of our players at times. It seems that some of you treat list management like a board game (say, a kid's version of Monopoly). I think it's a bit more scientific than playing favourites each week.

I trust Neeld (and his crew) will have worked out the gaps in our list by now, will have assessed the relative merits of each of our current players, and will go into this year's draft period with a solid plan as to what and who we need.

I expect the wish list would include classy mids (one established), a small forward and another tall marking forward. And, in this regard, I expect the mindset is more about how to get these much needed players onto the list rather than simply to exit 10-12 players who are currently on our list. The latter is merely a by-product of the need to get the new required players, and any trades I expect will be influenced by the deals needed to get that done.

That's a fabulous post RB. Entirely sensible.

Obviously I agree with it!

I feel for all first year senior coaches. They inherit utter crap. Except for Geelong and Adelaide this year. The cull will be over two years minimum. I know we are all getting itchy to give some players the ass and it will be done but you can't turn over 10 players in one year.

Damien Hardwick would disagree regarding the 10 players. 2010 they made 12 list changes.

Edited July 2, 201213 yr by Bonkers

Understandable oversight - you left out Petterd

I am not picking on Mckenzie Nasher

But that is the problem with about 10 on our list.

You cannot make multipule changes in one season

So we are stuck with a whole lot of players who cannot hit targets

I dont know that we are 'stuck' with as many as some suspect.

Like many id probably love to swap out about 11-12..... but I really cant see why , with some deliberate efforts at trade week together with the draft(s) we cant get 8-9 new faces at the club. We're never going to fix all our ills in one fell swoop but we can make a serious inroad there.

Much will depend upon how much patience has been exhausted come seasons end.

I reckon Petterd is gone.

Morton could well be trade-bait for Boak

Green may well call it a day

Can't see any other big changes really,

If Green doesn't retire he'll need to be tapped on the shoulder. He's done.

What's this love for Magner. He might be tough but he is not a creative player. His disposal is average with minimal penetration, goes to ground all the time and looks like he is running in quicksand he is so slow.

It'd be Toumpas or Wines, wouldn't it.. O'Meara would have been nice, but these 2 sound brilli'.

I watched the Under 18 Championships and the kid that stands out to me ahead of Toumpas is his SA teamate Sam Colquhoun

He is a ball magnet averaging nearlty 30 possies, a game, an elite kick and shows poise that McKenzie and Magner would only dream about. Could possibly get to pick 13.

If we participate in the mini-draft Jessie Hogan KPF looks great along with, Jack Martin but they can't play until 2014.

Some of the comments on this thread are just fanciful.

How does the club delist Davey for instance? I had thought he was contracted until the end of next season.

Morton? Some people here may not rate him (I think he has upside still), but on any construction the club would try to trade him if they wished to move him on - why simply delist him?

All clubs are now looking at the VFL for some effective, mature bodied depth players. Bate and Dunn, by VFL standards, more than fit that category - and that's why I understand Neeld stopped Bate being traded to the Bulldogs. They have a role IMO. Not everyone will be Buddy Franklin.

The lack of evidence based thinking that often occurs here is as troubling as some of the performances of our players at times. It seems that some of you treat list management like a board game (say, a kid's version of Monopoly). I think it's a bit more scientific than playing favourites each week.

I trust Neeld (and his crew) will have worked out the gaps in our list by now, will have assessed the relative merits of each of our current players, and will go into this year's draft period with a solid plan as to what and who we need.

I expect the wish list would include classy mids (one established), a small forward and another tall marking forward. And, in this regard, I expect the mindset is more about how to get these much needed players onto the list rather than simply to exit 10-12 players who are currently on our list. The latter is merely a by-product of the need to get the new required players, and any trades I expect will be influenced by the deals needed to get that done.

Fantastic post Ron burgundy. well structured logic without the post thrashing emotion.

Logic ... but no concrete moves. Just theory. We need them for depth ... we do not have class midfield, class half back or real tough workers. Plenty of depth types.

Retire: Brad Green

trade 1: Bennell & Morton to West Coast for Koby Stevens & Ashley Smith (skilled running half back)

Delist: Spencer, Bate, Jetta, Fitzpatrick, Petterd

that's 8 off the list, 2 on ... Nicho elevated. Leaves us 3 (Viney), 4 (classy mid), 12 (classy mid), 26 (small fwd/pace), 40 (someone with pace)

i wouldn't be against a 'hardwick' cull of 10-12

we have the worst list in the comp. only drastic action will change that

having said that, turning over up to 12 players and getting something better is easier said than done

Too late mate I am already in the sheds drinking stubbies.

PS did not notice it cfh

two sheds to the wind

Logic ... but no concrete moves. Just theory. We need them for depth ... we do not have class midfield, class half back or real tough workers. Plenty of depth types.

Retire: Brad Green

trade 1: Bennell & Morton to West Coast for Koby Stevens & Ashley Smith (skilled running half back)

Delist: Spencer, Bate, Jetta, Fitzpatrick, Petterd

that's 8 off the list, 2 on ... Nicho elevated. Leaves us 3 (Viney), 4 (classy mid), 12 (classy mid), 26 (small fwd/pace), 40 (someone with pace)

Like it JC !! like it a lot.Scientific evidence based and actually achieves something more than just defensive wish making and blind faith.well posted!

Logic ... but no concrete moves. Just theory. We need them for depth ... we do not have class midfield, class half back or real tough workers. Plenty of depth types.

Retire: Brad Green

trade 1: Bennell & Morton to West Coast for Koby Stevens & Ashley Smith (skilled running half back)

Delist: Spencer, Bate, Jetta, Fitzpatrick, Petterd

that's 8 off the list, 2 on ... Nicho elevated. Leaves us 3 (Viney), 4 (classy mid), 12 (classy mid), 26 (small fwd/pace), 40 (someone with pace)

No way in hell we'll delist Fitzpatrick. To have another 200+cm crumber and marking target in the forwardline?

Given he has diabetes, this may be a possible reason he hasn't bulked up. Now they know, they can alter his training/eating habits to allow him to fill out. I'd be giving him at least another 2 years.

i wouldn't be against a 'hardwick' cull of 10-12

we have the worst list in the comp. only drastic action will change that

having said that, turning over up to 12 players and getting something better is easier said than done

i'll have what hes having !!

Im not sure that we might go that far; 8 or 9 is my thinking but if Neeld summises that a big broom has to go through Thats fine by me.

I mean if you cant stick your hand up in this season,of all seasons then you cant be worth squat !!!

I watched the Under 18 Championships and the kid that stands out to me ahead of Toumpas is his SA teamate Sam Colquhoun

He is a ball magnet averaging nearlty 30 possies, a game, an elite kick and shows poise that McKenzie and Magner would only dream about. Could possibly get to pick 13.

If we participate in the mini-draft Jessie Hogan KPF looks great along with, Jack Martin but they can't play until 2014.

I like the way your thinking, & Colquhoun reads well.

Knightmare rates him around P-19, but has him going @ P-11.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2012-mock-draft.956129/

I wonder if Carlton could be talked into trading they're 1st Rnder, for a rangy long winded winger.

The trouble with getting to pickup a Top father/son in a powerful draft year, is we don't get a legup over the field, & may well fall further behind.

I think we should take absolute "Best Available" with our 1st Rnd picks this year, & after we can draft for need.

I can see us drafting 4 - 5 from the NAB Draft,,, 2 rookies,, & hopefully trade in 2.

Maybe one player gets delisted, to be potentially re-rookied?

There was a lot of hype about this upcoming draft running pretty deep. Considering our position on the ladder I can see the club using more than 5 picks. We could probably upgrade Magner & Nicholson, thats 7 changes at least. A couple of players may be demoted to the rookie list. Recruit two free agents makes 9. The club will obviously try to bring in mature players that can fill a role on low salary. Personally I'm predicting a pretty large clean out.

The other thing to remember is that this list was a long way off the pace in terms of AFL standard fitness and strength less than a year ago.

It will take about three pre-seasons to get it up to an elite level.

That doesn't mean the list lacks talent though.

Give Misson some proper time with some of these (currently) maligned players, and some of you may take a different view of their relative worth in a couple of years from now.

Give Misson some proper time with some of these (currently) maligned players, and some of you may take a different view of their relative worth in a couple of years from now.

Some...possibly....Some will be gone too

Some...possibly....Some will be gone too

Yep - thanks for the heads up on that.

Yep - thanks for the heads up on that.

Ron...I simply dont think thats the greatest quality thats missing in some of these blokes.. not so much fitness as you would have it... more ticker I suggest.

The other thing to remember is that this list was a long way off the pace in terms of AFL standard fitness and strength less than a year ago.

It will take about three pre-seasons to get it up to an elite level.

That doesn't mean the list lacks talent though.

Give Misson some proper time with some of these (currently) maligned players, and some of you may take a different view of their relative worth in a couple of years from now.

I know there's nothing we can change from past years , but how on earth did the club not know how far behind other clubs we were in terms of fitness ? I don't recall hearing anything about these levels until Misson , Neeld and Craig came on board .

Was our footy dept that far behind ? Did our club , or people within the footy dept not notice how other clubs were going about their pre-seasons ? It's fairly transparent I would have thought .

You'd reckon that all people within a footy dept should at least know 'The lay of the land' . It's just astonishing if they didn't .

The other thing to remember is that this list was a long way off the pace in terms of AFL standard fitness and strength less than a year ago.

It will take about three pre-seasons to get it up to an elite level.

That doesn't mean the list lacks talent though.

Give Misson some proper time with some of these (currently) maligned players, and some of you may take a different view of their relative worth in a couple of years from now.

Your right but there is a lack of heart for the hard things, & hard work.

Mostly I think in the older bracket, where they learnt the easy way.

The other thing to remember is that this list was a long way off the pace in terms of AFL standard fitness and strength less than a year ago.

It will take about three pre-seasons to get it up to an elite level.

That doesn't mean the list lacks talent though.

Give Misson some proper time with some of these (currently) maligned players, and some of you may take a different view of their relative worth in a couple of years from now.

I think it is more fitness and strength in partnership that we lack.

As in - Bruce could run 20km a game but was pretty slight.

We need big arses on our big runners and that's what I expect from Misson to bring in a few years time.

I do agree, with your premise of letting Misson have another crack at giving some of these kids a body that can allow them to compete better.