What's this love for Magner. He might be tough but he is not a creative player. His disposal is average with minimal penetration, goes to ground all the time and looks like he is running in quicksand he is so slow.

Keep Jordie and only upgrade Nicholson as he has pace and can break the lines.

A love a littel humour on monday morning.

Magner is a first year player. He , unlike others has managed to keep his job. Hes been asked to not only play a hard game ( but he likes it that way it seems anyway ) he has taken it upon himslef it seems to attempt tostep upa littel even before hes had a chance to consolidate his abilities at this level.

He earns his possessions, he doesnt shirk contests. Hes far from slow, open your eyes ; hes taken down a few unsuspecting opposition during the year.

What he is...is all but alone out there at times and doesnt have a lot of his compatriots presenting in positions that make the meerist of sense.

This guy is a genuine uncut gem. Another preseason and more games under his belt and he will be amongst the first picked week in week out.

This guy actually WANTS to play.

Picks 3, 4, 13, 30, 50

Upgrade: Nicholson and Magner

Free Agents: Sewell

PSD: ? (1 young OOC may be worth it...)

8 or 9 players will most likely be removed from the senior list.

Those suggesting delisting Joel MacDonald want this club to be sitting at the bottom forever. He may not have the best disposal, but he competes and works hard every minute he is on the ground.

We need guys like this that keep us in the contest. My main belief with our lack of progress over the last few years is that we are rarely 'in' games. We get blown out of the water and the rest of the game both teams just go through the motions. Guys like J Mac may not be able to help you beat Collingwood or Hawthorn, but he'll keep us 'in' games against the majority of other sides.

We need senior bodies desperately, and we need to not moth in to the contest. Yesterday was a repeat of round one, Brisbane just punched holes through and press and when we clogged the centre of the ground they just did circle work. The game was so boring as a Melbourne supporter to watch.

Those suggesting delisting Joel MacDonald want this club to be sitting at the bottom forever. He may not have the best disposal, but he competes and works hard every minute he is on the ground.

We need guys like this that keep us in the contest. My main belief with our lack of progress over the last few years is that we are rarely 'in' games. We get blown out of the water and the rest of the game both teams just go through the motions. Guys like J Mac may not be able to help you beat Collingwood or Hawthorn, but he'll keep us 'in' games against the majority of other sides.

We need senior bodies desperately, and we need to not moth in to the contest. Yesterday was a repeat of round one, Brisbane just punched holes through and press and when we clogged the centre of the ground they just did circle work. The game was so boring as a Melbourne supporter to watch.

completely agree on joel mac. in a perfect world he wouldnt be there but considering where our list is at, we need back ups such as him. I actually am very impressed with his desire over the last month. Magner and Nicho should be upgraded. again Magner is a tryer, but he hasnt got many mates around him doing the same. for what its worth here is my list of blokes that we could do without.

bennel

green

davey

moloney (doesnt appear to want to be there)

dunn

bate

jetta (unless he shows something over the rest of year)

sylvia (his time has gone)

scully (oops, we already dumped that loser)

I really like bail, he is never going to be a worldbeater but i just like him

morton has shown slight glimpses of late, but worried that might be all he has.

jurys out on spencer and fitzpatrick. injuries have not been kind

not sure if bartram will be able to get his body right

pettard doesnt seems to be able to take the next step. another year maybe.

Priorities would be to make sure we get t mac and blease signed up. tom is obvious, but it seems that blease is not in favour as they continually seem to want to drop him. i reckon hes a beauty.

eesh, its going to be a long crawl back up the ladder.

Cull isa bit over the top, any given season most clubs will turn over 6-10 players including rookies, and most will make 4-5 changes to there senior list. We will be on the high side 5-6 on the senior list will go, Spencer, Green are two definates, leaves us 4 more one of Dunn or Bate will be gone, Jamar and Davey both turn 30 next year both will go onto the veterans list freeing up 2 spots, another 2 will be either delisted or traded who they will be only the club nows.

Those capable of being developed into a premiership player, or are core:

Clark, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Watts, Frawley, Rivers, Grimes, Jamar, Garland, Jurrah, Tom McDonald, *Sylvia, *Moloney

Players with question marks, are depth, or have skill issues:

Bartram, McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Martin, Jetta, Joel Mac, Magner

Too early to call:

Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Strauss

Sorry, but I just don't see it:

Dunn, Bate, Bennell, Morton, Spencer

Time has passed them by:

Green, Davey

Others such as Taggert, Tynan, Cook, Davis, Gawn, etc. are development players and I'll leave the Rookies.

* some will have these two in the ? category and I have no problem with that.

I have 7 players in the "time has passed by", or "sorry" categories, but those in the "?/depth" category wouldn't feel safe - depending on contract status. Also, I don't believe Davey will be going anywhere, even though I've placed him where I have. I think he'll get his final year in 2013. And Magner will obviously also get another year.

If every player was out of contract I reckon there'd only be a about a dozen players confident of their short-term future.

I have to say that I'm disappointed to list Morton where I have, as I still see talent and upside. But I too have given up hope. He just doesn't have the capacity to win the type of contested footy that players are exposed to in finals. Every player on the list should be measured by their potential to influence finals.

If you can't perform in finals you're about as useful as a cold pie.

By my assessment we don't have one A grade player. Clark was having an A grade year, but I don't give an A grade rating on one year, let alone half a season. We have potential A graders - Clark, Trengove, Watts, Frawley, Howe and we need to really get some wins in the draft/trade table at year's end. Essendon have shown that things can change quite quickly and I'm relatively bullish about our future. But I always am.

Those capable of being developed into a premiership player, or are core:

Clark, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Watts, Frawley, Rivers, Grimes, Jamar, Garland, Jurrah, Tom McDonald, *Sylvia, *Moloney

Players with question marks, are depth, or have skill issues:

Bartram, McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Martin, Jetta, Joel Mac, Magner

Too early to call:

Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Strauss

Sorry, but I just don't see it:

Dunn, Bate, Bennell, Morton, Spencer

Time has passed them by:

Green, Davey

Others such as Taggert, Tynan, Cook, Davis, Gawn, etc. are development players and I'll leave the Rookies.

* some will have these two in the ? category and I have no problem with that.

I have 7 players in the "time has passed by", or "sorry" categories, but those in the "?/depth" category wouldn't feel safe - depending on contract status. Also, I don't believe Davey will be going anywhere, even though I've placed him where I have. I think he'll get his final year in 2013. And Magner will obviously also get another year.

If every player was out of contract I reckon there'd only be a about a dozen players confident of their short-term future.

I have to say that I'm disappointed to list Morton where I have, as I still see talent and upside. But I too have given up hope. He just doesn't have the capacity to win the type of contested footy that players are exposed to in finals. Every player on the list should be measured by their potential to influence finals.

If you can't perform in finals you're about as useful as a cold pie.

By my assessment we don't have one A grade player. Clark was having an A grade year, but I don't give an A grade rating on one year, let alone half a season. We have potential A graders - Clark, Trengove, Watts, Frawley, Howe and we need to really get some wins in the draft/trade table at year's end. Essendon have shown that things can change quite quickly and I'm relatively bullish about our future. But I always am.

Good post.

Just get rid of Morton ffs.

As for others...

Greeny its time to pull the plug.

Flash maybe you should retire also.

Jetta see you later you aint up to it mate. No offence intended.

Joel Mcdonald see you later also. No room for uncoordinated clumsy backmen with bad skills at MFC.We gave you a shot and you havent delivered sorry mate see you later.

Beamer you are nearly in the gun too...you have had a bad year and need to make up for it next year.

While we are at it...take the captaincy and give it to Chunk and VC to Mitch Clark! Take the pressure off Trenners.. and Grimes as Grimes is not anywhere near captain material.

For me, end of the season I'd be looking at not moving that many on.

RETIRE: Green

FREE AGENTS: Bate (Bulldogs?), Dunn (Carlton?)

DELIST: Spencer, Lawrence

TRADE: Petterd & third round pick to Lions for their 2nd round pick.

Bennell and same 2nd round pick to West Coast for Stevens?

Gives us live picks with 3, 4, 13 & 26 (assuming we finish 16th)

Upgrade: Magner

Sign Shannon Byrnes as a free agent for a crumbing forward

Nicho & Evans get a third and final year on the rookie list

Shehan, Couch & Williams get a 2nd year on rookie list

1 pick in the rookie draft.

Hmmn, nice work TD.

But we need another pick, or 2, for the Pre Season Draft. It's a must this year.

Look at what Sydney and to a lesser extent Collingwood have done. Neeld wants hard bodies.

The Swans have recruited

R Shaw, Kennedy, McGlynn, Mumford, Richards, Mattner. Morton, Spangher, Seaby. Not all of themn have worked but they are ready to go players.

Our comparison would be a Joel Mac who is a tryer but hasn't got the goods to set the world on fire. You need talent around these guys and the Swans haver recruited tremendously well in that regard. Their culture is quite extraordinary and something at this point we can only aspire to.

Simon Buckley was an ordinary player who got injured a lot but at the Pies he has done quite well.

These guys are all role players and that's the big difference. Nick Maxwell is an ordinary footballer but a good leader and a fantastic role player. Thats the type of team Neeld wants to develop. And you can't do that by binning 11 players and drafting kids at pick 100. Its why I reckon he kept bate, Much maligned here but has done well this season with limited opportunities. Solid body and 6-70 games experience. Expect m,ore of the same..

If we delist/trade around 6 players, another 6 of similar value will remain...

A significant overhaul of the list is required. Given our excellent hand in the draft, and therefore strong trading position, this is the year to do it. Next year, with one first rounder and no f/s, we won't get the same value from turning over players (ie the differential between the value of players in and value of players out will be less).

So be aggressive Dees!

We could delist about 12 players easy from this MFC team.

You just cant carry this many spuds at this level.

We are in some real trouble if we dont make finals next year IMO

6 years with no finals is just shocking after the picks we have had.

This draft is going to give this club one last chance with this list.

Mark neeld has a big job coming up and i am sure he will show no mercey as this is his once in a life time shot as coach.

I think there will be one or two big name moved on at years end.

I have a bad feeling that blease will not be with the dees in 2013.

Im sick of looking forward to draft picks.

Cant wait for the day i just go to the footy and know my team has a chance to win every week again.

Its been a long hard 6 years for every demon fan.Its time for the MFC to do something for its loyal fans.

just bloody start winning Melbourne

Big Jim there is as much chance of the Dees playing finals football next year as there is of me be signed up as an Astronaut.

We have 5 or 6 good players 10 Average players and at this point no game breaker.

A reasonable amount of improvement may come from this group but Finals is beyond them

Big Jim there is as much chance of the Dees playing finals football next year as there is of me be signed up as an Astronaut.

Is that you out there 'old dee' ?

Is that you out there 'old dee' ?

Yes I thought I would look at yesterdays game from a directly overhead position!

Yes I thought I would look at yesterdays game from a directly overhead position!

Ha ha ha ! That's what I call 'Distancing yourself ' . If we keep up performances like yesterday , I'll be joining you !

Is that you out there 'old dee' ?

Nah, this is him, I have it on good authority >

Jordie's effort can't be questioned and he is very hard at it but his kicking and pace are so far below AFL standard it's ridiculous. He missed targets today by 15m. You can only carry so many one-paced, poor kicks on a list. We seem to have more than our fair share in Grimes, Trengove, Magner, McKenzie, Moloney, Bate, Bail. They're everywhere!

Then I look forward to the day when that pacy, classy midfielder pushes Jordie out of the side. Problem is that whoever he is he's not on the list yet. Until he is and he does, McKenzie stays.

It'd be Toumpas or Wines, wouldn't it.. O'Meara would have been nice, but these 2 sound brilli'.

Then I look forward to the day when that pacy, classy midfielder pushes Jordie out of the side. Problem is that whoever he is he's not on the list yet. Until he is and he does, McKenzie stays.

I am not picking on Mckenzie Nasher

But that is the problem with about 10 on our list.

You cannot make multipule changes in one season

So we are stuck with a whole lot of players who cannot hit targets

I feel for all first year senior coaches. They inherit utter crap. Except for Geelong and Adelaide this year. The cull will be over two years minimum. I know we are all getting itchy to give some players the ass and it will be done but you can't turn over 10 players in one year.

I feel for all first year senior coaches. They inherit utter crap. Except for Geelong and Adelaide this year. The cull will be over two years minimum. I know we are all getting itchy to give some players the ass and it will be done but you can't turn over 10 players in one year.

Spot on cfh.

I would suggest it will probably take 3 - 4 years

Spot on cfh.

I would suggest it will probably take 3 - 4 years

5,000 posts Old dee! Raise the bat and kiss the helmet mate. Tigers turned over a heap in 3-4 years I suggest the MFC have a built in revolving door we are gonna need it.

5,000 posts Old dee! Raise the bat and kiss the helmet mate. Tigers turned over a heap in 3-4 years I suggest the MFC have a built in revolving door we are gonna need it.

Too late mate I am already in the sheds drinking stubbies.

PS did not notice it cfh

Agree on comments about Jordie's kicking. Love his endeavour, but his kicking is barely VFL standard. Bartram as well. Meanwhile, McDonald's lucky he's turned into a really promising young defender, because his kicking is atrocious.

That's 11 draft picks required. Just what sort of quality do you expect to get around pick 120?

Even you Nasher are going a long way into the draft. Our fifth pick will be around 42-44. If you get rid of two more, plus possibly Bail, you will have us going out to 79 or 97. Not much star quality comes from picks like that.

Best to delist 5, 6 at most, promote some rookies and look for new rookies.

Yes I Agree at the moment we have 10-11 players not good enough look for some in the VFL and elsewhere who are ready to play