Try thinking about a long term culture where hard work is the norm & head over footy the expectation.

If we want to continue to play garbage football, keep the soft players & the soft bruise free culture.

No room for passengers on a workmans train. Just make way.

Football teams are made up of many parts try watching Jurrah when his cofidence is up he does most of the team things. Its a misnomer that he never does

Hmmm, Nicho played out of his skin last night and was one of our best for mine, close to BOG. Might have to rethink that one.

GTG I like Bartram as well and can see why Neeld does to but he is definitely limited and has poor disposal which is why I would consider it. He has been good this year though and could be a very good "depth" 23-30 on the list type player. Don't think he's best 22 though.

Football teams are made up of many parts try watching Jurrah when his cofidence is up he does most of the team things. Its a misnomer that he never does

I have watched him & hoped for him. He's very highly talented & also a huge liability.

I wouldn't want him in a finals team for us, the way he's gone about it.... IF, he changes & gets tougher, & chases & brings down his quarry & does the 1%'s,,, then after a season of that I may start to believe in him.

But Not Now, I don't.

Crazy - he is the type of player who can make the difference in finals. You need cream as well as cake. Look at how he single-handedly got us back in the game last year against the Lions. He has improved on doing the "team" things and is an automatic best 22 when fit.

2015

Jamar

What's the go with the senior list changes next year?

I thought with the adjustment to the VL rules next year (ie $100k per veteran of 10 yrs or more senior service and unlimited veterans) that senior list sizes will be adjusted to 40 from 38 or will they stay at 38?

Ok. A few people are still going on about Moloney, Petterd, Sylvia etc & who we should trade or delist, reality is we will delist at least 5.

Green may retire, Jamar might go up to a veteran, there will be places everywhere....well maybe not.

Here is an updated list of our contracts, correct me if I've got any wrong.

Have your say on who we should delist or put up for trade. I will highlight at least 5 for a start who may be delisted/retire.

Contracted to End of 2012

Brad Green (Upgraded to Veterans List)

Rohan Bail

Lawrence, Kelvin (Rookie)

Jai Sheehan (Rookie)

Tom Couch (Rookie)

James Magner (Rookie)

Leigh Williams (Rookie)

Clint Bartram

Matthew Bate

Jamie Bennell

Sam Blease

Lucas Cook

Troy Davis

Lynden Dunn

Colin Garland

Jeremy Howe

Neville Jetta

Nathan Jones

Liam Jurrah

Tom McDonald

Jordan McKenzie

Brent Moloney - FA

Ricky Petterd - possible trade?

Jared Rivers

Jake Spencer

James Strauss

Michael Evans

Dan Nicholson

Contracted to End of 2013

Colin Sylvia

Aaron Davey

Jack Grimes

Jordan Gysberts

Jack Watts

Max Gawn

Cale Morton

Stefan Martin

Rory Taggert

Josh Tynan

James Sellar

Contracted to End of 2014

James Frawley

Luke Tapscott

Contracted to end of 2015

Jack Trengove

Mitch Clark

Mark Jamar

Unknown

Joel Macdonald

Jack Fitzpatrick

Edited June 25, 201213 yr by Hells Gates

I think that Jetta has alot more to offer then Williams and Evans.

I think that Jetta has alot more to offer then Williams and Evans.

This could be true but also Evans has also proved he can do a lot more when given his chance also.

I prefer the OP, it had the players who were FA so that people wouldn't put 'possible trade' next to Bate, Moloney, or Dunn...

But you are looking at list deletions.

Green has a decision to make with Neeld and Leigh Brown.

Bennell, MacDonald, Bate, Dunn, Jetta, Spencer, Petterd, Evans ®, and Lawrence ® may look elsewhere or be moved on.

It will be difficult because Magner and Nicholson will be on the list next year - unless Magner agrees to do what McKenzie did and stay for the 2nd year on the RL. Nicholson must be upgraded.

Rivers and Jamar (2 vets outisde) can be Vets Listed which will mean 6 rookies next year. We will save $100k on both due to a rule change:

http://www.theage.co...1012-1ll89.html

So we would need to upgrade Magner, and Nicholson and have space for Viney, Pick 4, 13, 25, 44 (at least) and any Free Agents that we can attract. The Pre Season Draft would be close to useless unless you have the last pick and are trying to coax a young star into that draft.

With two new vets it means we are still looking for at least 5 deletions for the draft and then add any for free agents.

Edited - Moloney is RFA and I confused myself with regard to vets rules. Jamar and Rivers are eligible in 2013, Davey and Sylvia in 2014, and Moloney the year after that.

Edited June 26, 201213 yr by rpfc

I prefer the OP, it had the players who were FA so that people wouldn't put 'possible trade' next to Bate, Moloney, or Dunn...

But you are looking at list deletions.

Green has a decision to make with Neeld and Leigh Brown.

Bennell, MacDonald, Bate, Dunn, Jetta, Spencer, Petterd, Evans ®, and Lawrence ® may look elsewhere or be moved on.

It will be difficult because Magner and Nicholson will be on the list next year - unless Magner agrees to do what McKenzie did and stay for the 2nd year on the RL. Nicholson must be upgraded.

Rivers, Moloney, and/or Jamar (2 vets outisde) can be Vets Listed which will mean 6 rookies next year. We will save $100k on all three due to a rule change:

http://www.theage.co...1012-1ll89.html

So we would need to upgrade Magner, and Nicholson and have space for Viney, Pick 4, 13, 25, 44 (at least) and any Free Agents that we can attract. The Pre Season Draft would be close to useless unless you have the last pick and are trying to coax a young star into that draft.

With two new vets it means we are still looking for at least 5 deletions for the draft and then add any for free agents.

I think I will go have another coffee and come back and read this!!

Brain not working very well this morning!

2015

Clark, Trengove, Jamar, Garland, McKenzie

2014

Frawley, Tapscott, McDonald

2013

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Martin, Tynan, Sellar (assumed automatic 2 yr deal),

2012

OOC (in number order)

Jones, Batram, Bennell, Petterd, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Jurrah, MacDonald, Howe, Jetta, Davis, Spencer, Bail, Fitzpatrick

Rookies (upgrade or delist)

Nicholson ®, Evans ®, Lawrence ®

Rookies (1 year option)

Couch, Magner, Sheahan, Williams

RFA

Moloney

UFA

Green, Rivers, Bate, and Dunn.

Edited July 8, 201213 yr by rpfc

2015

Clark, Trengove, Jamar, Garland, McKenzie

2014

Frawley, Tapscott, McDonald

2013

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Martin, Tynan, Sellar (assumed automatic 2 yr deal),

2012

OOC (in number order)

Jones, Batram, Bennell, Petterd, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Jurrah, MacDonald, Howe, Jetta, Davis, Spencer, Bail, Fitzpatrick

Rookies (upgrade or delist)

Nicholson ®, Evans ®, Lawrence ®

Rookies (1 year option)

Couch, Magner, Sheahan, Williams

RFA

Moloney

UFA

Green, Rivers, Bate, and Dunn.

rpfc, Beamer might be UFA if he is in top 25% of salary. n'est ce pas?

rpfc, Beamer might be UFA if he is in top 25% of salary. n'est ce pas?

Other way around - for players in the top 25% after 8 years they are RFA. For those outside the top 25% they are UFA. Moloney is definitely paid in the top 25%. Confirmed by the AFL:

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=130821

He has only been at the club since 2005 which means he will get UFA in 2015.

Ok. A few people are still going on about Moloney, Petterd, Sylvia etc & who we should trade or delist, reality is we will delist at least 5.

Green may retire, Jamar might go up to a veteran, there will be places everywhere....well maybe not.

Here is an updated list of our contracts, correct me if I've got any wrong.

Have your say on who we should delist or put up for trade. I will highlight at least 5 for a start who may be delisted/retire.

Contracted to End of 2012

Brad Green (Upgraded to Veterans List)

Rohan Bail

Lawrence, Kelvin (Rookie)

Jai Sheehan (Rookie)

Tom Couch (Rookie)

James Magner (Rookie)

Leigh Williams (Rookie)

Clint Bartram

Matthew Bate

Jamie Bennell

Sam Blease

Lucas Cook

Troy Davis

Lynden Dunn

Colin Garland

Jeremy Howe

Neville Jetta

Nathan Jones

Liam Jurrah

Joel Macdonald

Tom McDonald

Brent Moloney - FA

Ricky Petterd - possible trade?

Jared Rivers

Jake Spencer

James Strauss

Michael Evans

Dan Nicholson

Contracted to End of 2013

Colin Sylvia

Aaron Davey

Jack Grimes

Jordan Gysberts

Jack Watts

Max Gawn

Cale Morton

Stefan Martin

Rory Taggert

Josh Tynan

James Sellar

Contracted to End of 2014

James Frawley

Luke Tapscott

Contracted to end of 2015

Jack Trengove

Mitch Clark

Mark Jamar

Unknown

Joel Macdonald

Jack Fitzpatrick

Contracted to End of 2012

(Rookie) Tom Couch --------------------------------- ??????

(Rookie) Michael Evans ----------------------------- ??????

(Rookie) Kelvin Lawrence -------------------------- ??????

(Rookie) James Magner ------------- Elevate -- 2 Years

(Rookie) Dan Nicholson (elevated rookie)----- 2 Years

(Rookie) Jai Sheehan extend

(Rookie) Leigh Williams extend

Brad Green (Upgraded to Veterans List) --------- Retire

Rohan Bail --- 2 Years

Clint Bartram --------------- I feel Clints time is closing ???

Matthew Bate -------- ?????????? 1 Yr,,, or trade out.

Jamie Bennell ------------------------------------ Trade Out

Sam Blease -- keep

Lucas Cook -- keep

Troy Davis -- keep

Lynden Dunn -------------------------- 1 Yr,,, or trade out.

Jeremy Howe -- 2/3 Years

Neville Jetta --- 2 Years

Nathan Jones ----- 3 Years

Liam Jurrah ----------------- ?????????????????????

Brent Moloney - Restricted-FA ----------- Trade Out

Ricky Petterd ------------------------------- 2 Years or Trade

Jared Rivers ------------------------------- 2 Years, or Trade

Jake Spencer ----- 1 Yr

James Strauss -----2 Years

Contracted to End of 2013

Colin Sylvia

Aaron Davey --------------------- Trade Out.

Jack Fitzpatrick

Jack Grimes

Jordan Gysberts

Jack Watts

Max Gawn

Cale Morton --------------------------------------- ?????????

Stefan Martin

Rory Taggert

Josh Tynan

James Sellar

Contracted to End of 2014

James Frawley

Tom McDonald

Luke Tapscott

Contracted to end of 2015

Mitch Clark

Colin Garland

Mark Jamar

Jordan McKenzie

Jack Trengove

Nicholson must be upgraded.

I think he probably will be upgraded but have they abolished the 3rd year rookie option?

Rivers and Jamar (2 vets outisde) can be Vets Listed which will mean 6 rookies next year. We will save $100k on both due to a rule change:

I was under the impression that it would be 6 rookies and 40 on the senior list regardless of the number of vets or has this not been confirmed?

Other way around - for players in the top 25% after 8 years they are RFA. For those outside the top 25% they are UFA. Moloney is definitely paid in the top 25%. Confirmed by the AFL:

http://www.afl.com.a...x?newsid=130821

He has only been at the club since 2005 which means he will get UFA in 2015.

ah, back to front then - thanks

now, with RFA how feasible/realistic do you think it would be to TRADE a RFA player?

2015

Clark, Trengove, Jamar, Garland, McKenzie

2014

Frawley, Tapscott, McDonald

2013

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Martin, Tynan, Sellar (assumed automatic 2 yr deal),

2012

OOC (in number order)

Jones, Batram, Bennell, Petterd, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Jurrah, MacDonald, Howe, Jetta, Davis, Spencer, Bail, Fitzpatrick

Rookies (upgrade or delist)

Nicholson ®, Evans ®, Lawrence ®

Rookies (1 year option)

Couch, Magner, Sheahan, Williams

RFA

Moloney

UFA

Green, Rivers, Bate, and Dunn.

Interesting. Of that list now that we are at risk of losing, I think only Jones, Blease, Cook, Stauss, Howe, Jurrah, Davis and Rivers are really key. It wouldn't be the end of the world if we lost any of the others...

now, with RFA how feasible/realistic do you think it would be to TRADE a RFA player?

Incredibly tough with a big however...

In other sports they have a rule called a 'Sign and Trade' where a team WELL over the cap can get the team that has the player to 'sign' a contract on the proviso that the player then gets traded to the team of his choice. A recent one is Steve Nash in the NBA was a FA but 'signed' with his club Phoenix who then agreed a very good trade with the Lakers.

But the AFL doesn't allow clubs to over the cap at all, so it wouldn't make any sense at all.

Anyone thinking that Goddard or Moloney will be involved in a trade is being taken in.

However, after thinking about it some more a club can say 'we are going to match that offer and then trade you to get better value' but that stance is frought with danger. It will happen soon enough but usually in sports with 'restricted free agency' when a team matches an offer they want to keep the player.

Edited July 8, 201213 yr by rpfc

guys we are a very poor team just look at yesterday and where we are on the ladder.

Our position is just not because we have a lot of injuries.

Even before the injuries we were poor and have been for 4+ years .

I think it is likely that all four on the UFA list are unlikely to be with us in 2013.

Green - must nearly be his last year, good games at casey mean nothing with Greens skill level, I think he will be retired unless a miracle happens in the next 6 weeks.

Rivers Bate and Dunn are serviceable footballers who must be looking at the Dees and saying no finals here for 3 - 4 years, I will try my luck somewhere else if I can get a reasonable offer.

Battram - his knee problems may mean he never plays again, could be delisted because of them.

Bennell Oh please he is useless.

Bail Cannot kick to position of dubious value

Petterd- seems to be no longer capable at AFL as the Game has changed in the last couple of years, showing little at casey, for the high jump I think.

Spencer - I like him but I struggle to see him as a Top six team player.

Moloney- seems to have fallen very quickly but he can leave if he gets an offer he wants to take. If not I would say sorry mate it is over.

That is 10 players that I doubt will be around in 2013

If 3 stay from that list there is 7 to go leaves lots of room for recruits and lightens the salary Cap considerably.

Rookies

Nicholson - cannot kick to position Gone

Evans- Average player with a bad back Gone

Lawerence - not good enough Gone

PS

One LJ may be at her majestys pleasure.

I think there are no end of players that cannot take the Dees forward, a number will be gone by the end of 2012.

The trick will be to find replacements who are better.

2015

Clark, Trengove, Jamar, Garland, McKenzie

2014

Frawley, Tapscott, McDonald

2013

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, Taggert, Gawn, Martin, Tynan, Sellar (assumed automatic 2 yr deal),

2012

OOC (in number order)

Jones, Batram, Bennell, Petterd, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Jurrah, MacDonald, Howe, Jetta, Davis, Spencer, Bail, Fitzpatrick

Rookies (upgrade or delist)

Nicholson ®, Evans ®, Lawrence ®

Rookies (1 year option)

Couch, Magner, Sheahan, Williams

RFA

Moloney

UFA

Green, Rivers, Bate, and Dunn.

BUMP ! Has there been any changed status since this last update, rpfc. Was Evans to be upgraded ? Did he sign or something last year under Bailey ?

Get Jones and Howe signed up, then put the cue in the rack until we sort ourselves out towards the end of the year, is my view...

BUMP ! Has there been any changed status since this last update, rpfc. Was Evans to be upgraded ? Did he sign or something last year under Bailey ?

Nothing confirmed. We have 18 players for next year on the books.

No wonder we have cap space...

(Old55 is certain Fitz has another year so keep that in mind.)

We will lose 10-12 easily and im glad to see most (but not all) of the culprits are out of contract at seasons end.

Get Jones and Howe signed up, then put the cue in the rack until we sort ourselves out towards the end of the year, is my view...

Totally agree. Quite simply, two of our most important players.