A BIT OF A MYSTERY

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Nicholson was a positive, not the best kick but he sees ball, gets ball and and does it with pace.

[ox_5 163]

I've been trying to work out all year what Dunn adds to the team. It's not toughness, hard running, good forward pressure or goal kicking. What the heck is it then? 87 games to his name now; there's enough rounds left in the year to become the worst ever player to play 100 games for the MFC, just in time to be delisted.

It frustrates the hell out of me that he keeps getting picked. He is dropped for a reason - because he is no good. I dont care if his bloke shows form at VFL level, we know he cant cut it in the big league. FFS, even Newton had form in the VFL.

Whenever we swing changes his name always comes back as an in. Whoever he is coming in for, dont bother, keep them in the team instead, because Dunn adds zero value whatsoever.

We cant delist this bloke quick enough.

[Axis of Bob 11,695]

I liked the fact that we were completely smashed through the midfield, but we were still in the game for the first 3 quarters. In the past we would have been absolutely smashed if we lost the midfield that badly. We lost the clearances 53 to 25, yet were still in the game.

It tells me that we're on the right track, but we need ball winners and extra fitness. We know that the extra fitness will come thanks to Misson etc, but the ball winners will need to come from somewhere.

Draft = midfielders. We need to hit a star onballer + one or two other starting midfielders in the upcoming draft or two.

[dees64 104]

Very concerning to see Watts not jump for a mark in the last qtr & provide a contest..... whats his future?

We continue to get smashed on clearances & contested poss

Very hard to find any positives! Is it coaching?

Should there be a clause in the contract that allows club & coach to part ways after 12 mths? Nothing against Neeld but what if he cant coach?

[64was2longago 6]

Cannot be pleased with that effort. Footy is a 4 quarter game. We threw in the towel in the last. Still can't understand our lack of fitness. Time after time we run out of legs and I still wonder what Misson is doing with the group as our run out of puff is by far the worse in the league.

Some glimmer of hope turned to a thumping again! Hell this hurts.

[monoccular 17,413]

Cannot be pleased with that effort. Footy is a 4 quarter game. We threw in the towel in the last. Still can't understand our lack of fitness. Time after time we run out of legs and I still wonder what Misson is doing with the group as our run out of puff is by far the worse in the league.

Some glimmer of hope turned to a thumping again! Hell this hurts.

I guess the problem is that one can't convert a group that is so terrible unfit to a group of elite athletes overnight -- some fitness 'experts' here have suggested a full twelve months, so hopefully next season will be vastly better and we will be able to run out games.

I really feel that fitness is a key to being able to not only run adequately, but also to be able to make good decisions under pressure.

[Lordweaver 235]

it's personnel boys get that right and all will be fine

[Striker475 696]

The thing I have for Dunn is that he does do bloody well stopping that return rebound on our I50s. He contests it every time.

I want to keep him. I've said it. Petterd's more talented but doesn't work anywhere near as hard as the Porn Star, while Green is shot. He's behind Howe and LJ in the pecking order, but I don't mind that as he'll work his butt off in the twos and keep the pressure on.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Striker475

[Choko 493]

The thing I have for Dunn is that he does do bloody well stopping that return rebound on our I50s. He contests it every time.

I want to keep him. I've said it. Petterd's more talented but doesn't work anywhere near as hard as the Porn Star, while Green is shot. He's behind Howe and LJ in the pecking order, but I don't mind that as he'll work his butt off in the twos and keep the pressure on.

Dunn is a spud. He plays too often from behind, and does selfish thingslke that ridiculous snap out on the full. He doesn't contribute nearly enough. Delist for mine. Petterd has far more upside.

[Fat Tony 5,220]

I thought our rebound out of the backline was much better today without Bartram and I think he should be played in the midfield going forward.

On the negative, I thought we were pretty selfish in the forward line today, particularly Dunn and Clark.

Tapscott is not quick enough and doesn’t have enough tricks to play forward at AFL level. HBF is the only position he will make it IMO.

I would prefer to see Watts played on the wing and Blease in the backline.

We still could do with more pace. Hopefully Bartram, Sylvia and Davey come back in next week for Green (inj), Sellar and Bennell.

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

Agree on Dunn, Nasher.

Yeah he tries hard but I just don't see what he brings to the table other than a booming kick for goal. But no use having a nice long kick for goal when you hardly win the ball inside 50.

Combine that with Seller and a lack of crumb and it's no surprise that Mitch Clark looks like the only forward capable of kicking multiple goals.

But at the end of the day it's not really about the forward line, it's a midfield issue. How can we not have a group of elite midfielders after all the high picks we've had? It's just depressing.

Last chance to get it right this year - absolutely critical not to stuff it up this time!

As bad as we are and as hard to watch as we are I'm still confident that there is the potential to turn things around quicker than most would think.

[P-man 13,366]

Today was heartening from the view that for the first time this season we weren't so predictable in how we moved the ball forward. We weren't continually opting to bomb it long and hug the boundary to create a stoppage. We were a bit more creative and weren't afraid to look for inside options and use the corridor. We were able to get it out of our back half with more ease. We looked alot more assured with the ball in hand. Likewise our defensive work was ferocious and there were no easy possessions.

This is all discounting the last quarter where we completely died in the backside.

Clearly we still have alot of work to do on our clearances, and part of that will come with recruiting some quality inside mids, but today was the first time this season where I have seen a glimmer of hope for the future of this club.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I saw enough to give me a bit of a smile in the game, but seriously- Last quarter?

What did Neeld say to us at the last break? We were playing brutal footy in the third qtr and really stopping the Carlton flow. Then the last quarter began large gaps in defence and trailings of opponents began to emerge again. Carlton may have woken up to an extent but I was pretty disappointed in how we finished the game off.

We are really exposing ourselves late in games and giving up- it's a worry. If we had held strong and only lost by the 16 points we trailed at 3QT we would feel like we had made a much bigger leap

[felixdacat 459]

Suck we lost again, thought the boys responded ok after the beating they have been getting all week. A few thoughts..

Congrats to Sam Blease first goal in AFL if he can continue that will be awesome

Bail runs well and will get better

McDonald is very versatile and will be a good player

Grimes is stringing games together

Frawley needs to watch his kicking close to the boundary

The team lost steam and won't start winning if they don't get fitter.

I don't think Neeld's game plan is necessarily going to be hugging the boundary in fact I reckon we won't see one style of game or one game plan from Neeld but a few.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Felix da Dee

[PeterJames 46]

The thing that frustrates me is players going to ground so easily. Bail did this a lot and had one shocking effort where he dropped a chest mark went to ground and took forever to get up. He is not clean enough as with Nicholson dropping easy chest marks. Agree with Dunn being selfish and just too many brain fades! Bennell not sure why we keep playing him, is 5 metres out could run into an open goal but runs sideways and misses. Not sure how he gets a game ahead of Morton (i missed the Sydney debacle and before that he was in our best 2 weeks in a row!)

Mcdonald and Blease really look like good players. I want Blease and Tappy to stay in as they seem to attack the game but in different ways.

Mitch Clark has been an amazing recruit, scary to think where we would be without him!

[Cheesecake 92]

Today was heartening from the view that for the first time this season we weren't so predictable in how we moved the ball forward. We weren't continually opting to bomb it long and hug the boundary to create a stoppage. We were a bit more creative and weren't afraid to look for inside options and use the corridor. We were able to get it out of our back half with more ease. We looked alot more assured with the ball in hand. Likewise our defensive work was ferocious and there were no easy possessions.

This is all discounting the last quarter where we completely died in the backside.

Clearly we still have alot of work to do on our clearances, and part of that will come with recruiting some quality inside mids, but today was the first time this season where I have seen a glimmer of hope for the future of this club.

Great analysis, P_Man. The bit in bold, particularly, is what pleased me about the game. We saw elements of what was good about the Bailey game plan, with what is good about Neeld's. And we were able to do this because we had players like Bail, Blease, Nicho and Jones giving us run and options.

This is our future, I think. If we can play this game style for four quarters, make a few less stupid decisions or poor kicks through the back half, and get our contested possession up (particularly, get our midfield firing - apologies to Jones, who is awesome), we'll start to beat sides.

[Geddy Lee 582]

The Good:

Tom McDonald - this guy is going through Frawley-like improvement week to week.

Jared Rivers - played really well on a guy 15cm taller than him; won out nearly every time.

James Frawley - played well as always.

Sam Blease - taking the game on

Dan Nicholson, Rohan Bail - very raw, some big clangers, but were mostly very constructive

Jordie McKenzie - good job on Judd.

Mitch Clark - nuff said.

Our tackling was excellent - Tapscott, Magner, Jones in particular.

The Bad:

Jack Watts' attack - not good enough matey.

Colin Garland - if you're playing on a lightning-fast small defender, as you often do, stay the %#&@ down.

Jeremy Howe's goal-kicking. I got canned 4 weeks ago for calling him out on this; it's deplorable.

Mark Jamar around the ground. Little every week.

Jack Trengove's 2 possessions up til half time.

The Ugly:

Jamie Bennell

James Sellar

Lynden Dunn

Brent Moloney

The team going so much better when Sylvia, Davey and Bartram aren't in it.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The thing that frustrates me is players going to ground so easily. Bail did this a lot and had one shocking effort where he dropped a chest mark went to ground and took forever to get up. He is not clean enough as with Nicholson dropping easy chest marks. Agree with Dunn being selfish and just too many brain fades! Bennell not sure why we keep playing him, is 5 metres out could run into an open goal but runs sideways and misses. Not sure how he gets a game ahead of Morton (i missed the Sydney debacle and before that he was in our best 2 weeks in a row!)

Mcdonald and Blease really look like good players. I want Blease and Tappy to stay in as they seem to attack the game but in different ways.

Mitch Clark has been an amazing recruit, scary to think where we would be without him!

Mitch Clark has indeed been good, but he seems to run out of steam in the latter half of the game. I think he runs himself in to the ground early on and doesn't have much left in the tank in the second half. At one stage yesterday I think he took himself off because he was exhausted he just jogged to the bench after kicking a goal. Another time he went in to a pack when I thought he should have stayed down, we had players in the contest and he wasn't in a good position to take the mark anyway.

Maybe he thinks he has to lead the way, which is admirable but he must let others do some of the heavy lifting when the ball comes forward. Love his work rate and commitment but would like to see him get a bit more help with maybe Sellar doing a bit more of the hard stuff and Petterd or Dunn or whoever taking a bit of the pressure off.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The Good:

Tom McDonald - this guy is going through Frawley-like improvement week to week.

Jared Rivers - played really well on a guy 15cm taller than him; won out nearly every time.

James Frawley - played well as always.

Sam Blease - taking the game on

Dan Nicholson, Rohan Bail - very raw, some big clangers, but were mostly very constructive

Jordie McKenzie - good job on Judd.

Mitch Clark - nuff said.

Our tackling was excellent - Tapscott, Magner, Jones in particular.

The Bad:

Jack Watts' attack - not good enough matey.

Colin Garland - if you're playing on a lightning-fast small defender, as you often do, stay the %#&@ down.

Jeremy Howe's goal-kicking. I got canned 4 weeks ago for calling him out on this; it's deplorable.

Mark Jamar around the ground. Little every week.

Jack Trengove's 2 possessions up til half time.

The Ugly:

Jamie Bennell

James Sellar

Lynden Dunn

Brent Moloney

The team going so much better when Sylvia, Davey and Bartram aren't in it.

I reckon that Jack Watts could get 100 possessions, 20 contested, kick 20 goals and have 10 tackles and still there would be criticism of him on here.

He did some things wrong but they all did; how many games has he played?

Garland kept Betts to 2 goals in the first 3 quarters, one a very fortunate mark that just cleared the pack and fell in to his hands and another that was a free in front; the whole team played poorly in the last quarter and Betts got 3; not entirely Garland's fault with the ball coming in the way it was.

Where was Garland in your thoughts at 3 quarter time; in our best?

[Geddy Lee 582]

I reckon that Jack Watts could get 100 possessions, 20 contested, kick 20 goals and have 10 tackles and still there would be criticism of him on here.

He did some things wrong but they all did; how many games has he played?

Garland kept Betts to 2 goals in the first 3 quarters, one a very fortunate mark that just cleared the pack and fell in to his hands and another that was a free in front; the whole team played poorly in the last quarter and Betts got 3; not entirely Garland's fault with the ball coming in the way it was.

Where was Garland in your thoughts at 3 quarter time; in our best?

If you think Watts attacked the ball hard enough today, you have rocks in your head. I would rather he have 10 possies giving his all than 34 kick backwards (like last week). As I said in the other thread, if you are happy with his development you are deluded - you have actually convinced yourself that he is tracking nicely. He isn't.

Garland was OK, but if you put your hand up to play on a small - don't play like a tall. As you can see from my favourite players list, I am a fan of all our defenders. I don't think it was a good game by him.

[rpfc 28,267]

I reckon that Jack Watts could get 100 possessions, 20 contested, kick 20 goals and have 10 tackles and still there would be criticism of him on here.

He did some things wrong but they all did; how many games has he played?

Garland kept Betts to 2 goals in the first 3 quarters, one a very fortunate mark that just cleared the pack and fell in to his hands and another that was a free in front; the whole team played poorly in the last quarter and Betts got 3; not entirely Garland's fault with the ball coming in the way it was.

Where was Garland in your thoughts at 3 quarter time; in our best?

Jack is a thinker, and he can be soft but sometimes what looks like softness is just him trying to play a role in a contest. Like the marking contest at the end of the game that you noted earlier - he has no right to get in the way of the forward leading out (the way Tapscott obliterated Howe earlier when the game was alive...) and that forward has no right not bringing that football to ground. As you say, ball comes to ground - Watts is the only one on his feet - goal. And he held Walker well when he was on him.

And poor old Garland - Betts get some easy ones at the death and you're a mug.

[mauriesy 7,261]

but after 4 years of list development

I don't think we've had four years of list development. We've had five years of list change (and will have another couple yet as we exit a few more NQRs).

The development is really starting from now.

[mauriesy 7,261]

I'm actually not sure what to think about Moloney's game. He seemed like he was working hard, but he is now being exposed for being a poor runner. He has never been a good runner, but he's being exposed for it more now because of the two way running that Neeld requires. I just don't think he is physically capable of doing what he wants to.

I think his efforts to play a team game have improved a great deal, but he isn't physically capable to doing it. He is, after all, only a middle of the road runner at our club which, for a number 1 midfielder with a tag, is not good. When he is tagged he can't out work his man and can only use his strength at stoppages, except that he is too tired to do anything in the massive congestion of our stoppages.

I don't think it's a mental thing, but rather a lack of running ability. And it's not just Moloney, it's just that he gets the most opposition attention.

Moloney is just McLean with big biceps and boxing gloves.

[rpfc 28,267]

I don't think we've had four years of list development. We've had five years of list change (and will have another couple yet as we exit a few more NQRs).

The development is really starting from now.

That's a good point.

Misson and Craig excite me more than Neeld, always have. I have great hopes because we are finally up with the modern game. Morton, Watts, Bail, Howe, Trengove, McKenzie, Blease, McDonald, Viney, and the rest of the recent/soon-to-be acquired are all talents that we will finally be able to give a chance to turn their bodies into vehicles for their talent that can withstand AFL footy.

[praha 11,236]

I learned more about Carlton yesterday than I did Melbourne.

Carlton probably won't ever win a flag. They are rough, lazy and sloppy.

That said, they smashed Melbourne yesterday. The difference in clearances was simply shocking. I fail to understand how Moloney, Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Jamar, etc. can be so easily smashed week in, week out. It's mind boggling.

Delivery going forward was AWFUL.

That said, our transition at times we really good. We spread out and moved the ball clear at times, but broke down as soon as we got to CHF and the likes of Dunn were chopping the ball forward instead of kicking it in quick and direct.

I struggle to find positives because the team is so obviously poor in some areas. I'm struggling to understand how it went so bad, so quickly. Mysterious stuff.