I agree with that. Neeld has very high hopes for JW. That's why i have no probs with him playing VFL now.

Remember Jack did not play TAC Footy.

The MFC should never have played him in 2009. I reckon it really spooked him at the time.

I can see the same thing, WYL. But he's played over 40 AFL games now, he's missed out on that TAC footy. The only way he'll learn, IMO, is by applying his skills at the elite level.

What started as a stupid thread has evolved into some really good discussion and insight. The two things relevant to it that I am keeping at the front of my mind during this dark season are (i) that Jack is getting and using the ball more and more, in a way the coach wants him to. It's not perfect by any means but he is certainly having more and more moments where you can see the class shine, and (ii) that until we are fitter (superfit) we just can't play the style required to the level required. That leaves holes which are exploited. But we have given ourselves every chance of getting that fit, hard team we need by the staff and single minded approach of Neeld.

Last year against Collingwood they blew us off our feet in the last q. We were never going to be more than a mid tier bully until we could match that. It's not something that can be turned around in a couple of games. It may well take until mid next year to start really clicking. Then when the team has the ability and the belief to run hard all game we are going to see the beginnings of a team we can be proud of.

There is a ton of work to do and some list remodelling ahead but it can be done and we're going to give it every chance of succeeding.

Wishful thinking? I don't think so. I think this is a dose of some bloody horrible medicine that will not only save us but make us better.

The amount MFC supporters get defensive about Jack Watts is directly proportional to how much hope we had pinned on him, and we pinned a lot of hope on this kid.

He fails, our hopes flicker. It hurts.

You must be truly deluded if you're satisfied with his progress. I pray his curve is exponential.

Finey had some interesting points to make on his show tonight. I got on late, and he was repeating an earlier conversation, but the gist was to do with where Jack ran to at certain times. He said that it wasn't a courageousness thing... he said that he's certainly got courage... the problem is to do with decision making. I didn't hear the original convo he was referring to, but I think his point was that the issues are fixable. He's making incorrect decisions, and making choices with his last effect on a contest that lets him down.

He'll be fine. He won't be Hurley in style... but when he finds a good role, which a player with his engine, smarts and kicking skill always finds, then we'll have a player.

Melbourne put him up for trade at seasons end or whenever r his contract is up.

He has no passion for the game or contest, looks like he is in slow motion no urgency as well as this he needs to be selfish and go for it, to many times goes for the team option when it is not needed.

Has shown nothing since being on our list.

Why keep him for another two years hoping he will come good , trade him off while he may be worth something.

Otherwise we keep him till he even realises he hasn't got what it takes and is totally worthless.

Before every one starts sprouting rubbish that big guys take longer to develop is aloud of crap,we don't have time.

He seems like a nice guy and I hope he proves me wrong,but He won't.

He will mate, he will! Get off the kid's back and give him a fair go. Likewise, same advice to the armchair heroes.

For mine he is developing well, playing in a team that is 0-9 and mostly getting flogged as it learns a different way to play.

When Watts is our biggest issue at MFC we will be in great shape.

I have read some really brainless threads on here lately, but I think this takes the cake.

Well done fired up - your emotion seems to overtaken all logical and sensible thought.

The kid can play he is actually one of the most intelligent players on the list, which, could be a whole other thread in itself.

He, like many others on the list, lacks intensity and appetite for the contest. As I’ve said before, Watts needs to be thrown into SAS training from Sep - Feb to learn about work rate and hunger, and, there are a few spots on that train that can be filled by his mates.

I remember St Kilda fans saying similar things about Goddard in his infancy and he has turned out pretty well. People tend to forget he struggled early on without a settled position.

I don't even think he shirked it with the Robinson issue, the commentators said he needed to make body contact, but rather bails kick needed to be quicker or higher, watts wouldn't have looked at Robinson and thought I'm just going to stay out of his way, no he was watching the ball that was being kicked to him, which is the write thing to do! The intercept like that happens several times a game, it's just because watts was the recipient some people think he is in the wrong! A similar one was when watts kicked out and kicked it too low and hampson got onto it, why is everyone ignoring grimes who just stood there til hampson marked it and then put up a feeble effort or a spoil!

Watts is definitely playing well and one of the few outside players who has been a real outlet for our in and unders! One of my major problems is that we have no one on the outside, if watts bursts into packs then we would literally just be dishing it out to the opposition! Watts stays easily, played two good games! And will definitely be playing in two years time!

There are degrees of being soft. And we all know that Dunn is worse than Watts.

I'm staggered that you don't think Watts is soft. Truly staggered.

You said your definition of soft was not going, I said sometimes he doesn't go. I'm not sure what's got you so staggered.

Watts was good, yes the kick at the end was not great. but it took a 200cm ruckman to mark it.

Bails kick was rubbish not Jacks Fault. Put the ball on his head

This is the problem, it's in your make up you can not teach this.

Tell that to Tom Hawkins

Jack Watts the forward would love Jack Watts the defender/midfielder kicking to him, he is one of the few players in our team that can actually hit targets. I was unable to go top to the MCG yesterday but watched it last night, Watts like most our players was done at 3 qtr time. The way he moved in the first half was the best I have seen him this yearand I would like to see his GPS stats he covered huge amounts of ground.

Jack will return to our forward line later this year and certainly in 2013, we will see the best of him once we can get an effective midfield that can kick. If we can't start winning more footy through the middle and have players that can kick to advantage a player like Jack Watts will struggle. This will change as he gets stronger but he is a lead up smart footballer, he will learn to work harder and be harder.

Jack will return to our forward line later this year and certainly in 2013, we will see the best of him once we can get an effective midfield that can kick.

I don't agree. At the moment he's an outside winger in a 196cm body, who can't stand the body contact to be a leading forward.

Leave him in the backline where he can learn to toughen up, not shirk, and where his kicking skills and running ability can be used effectively to rebound.

You clearly have no idea! He is having a better year than Trengove! Do you want him traded as well??

I , like most have great hopes for Watts but ....

When he realises that he the 196cm marking target and not the crumber the better. (WTF is Neeld/Craig/Malthouse telling him?)

When he learns that if he doesn't get the ball the 1st time he can actually go in and try again a second.

When he looks past leading players 30-40 meters away and has the confidence to have the odd ping from fiddy will be nice.

When he realises he's a big unit and unlikely to get killed out there will be great.

The day Watts gets 3 Brownlow votes I can guarantee there'll still be so-called supporters bagging him!

The day Watts gets 3 Brownlow votes I can guarantee there'll still be so-called supporters bagging him!

Absolutely

As if there aren't enough opposition supporters, media etc on Jack's back already, we have to hear it from our own supporters

Some have mentioned it, but it's amazing how most forget how soft and unaccountable Goddard was in his first 5 years

You idiot

Cannot fathom the scattergum crap that Jack has copped from thread to thread in the last couple of days.

He was asked to play a role and did it incredibly well. 8 D50 rebounds, 12 contested possessions, 22 uncontested, 11 marks with two of those contested.

He regularly filled holes and tried very hard in a position he wouldn't have played in at all.

I understand that we didn't draft him to be a loose man in defence, but a 21 lead up forward is not going to get near it when we have 30 terrible I50s a game.

Those criticising him after that game simply look like people who have made their mind up on Jack for the time being and will not let facts sway their belief.

But in all the gloom - Watts did well, Blease did well, and thank Christ for Mitch Clark and Nathan Jones.

De Ja Effing Vu...

It's easier to continue to berate him isn't it?

It's simple. You can hide behind the cloak of "I just want what is best for the Dees" can't you?

The Jack Watts Problem © is quickly ceasing to be such an issue, and we have many other issues, far worse and more complicated (maybe that's why...), to deal with.

Why are people so quick to write off a skillful 196cm player who was one of the youngest in his draft class (NikNat is nearly a full year older), who was physically underdeveloped when he came to the club, and is still just 21???? Tippett took until he was about 22 (in 2009) to start achieving anything in the AFL and he had a similar (basketball) background to Watts. It takes time people!!!!

Awful thread.

Watts was good, yes the kick at the end was not great. but it took a 200cm ruckman to mark it.

It didn't help that Grimes slipped over...