Turnovers

[Demon17 4,600]

Our top 5 ball getters had 50 -ish % kicking efficiency yesterday, meaning we gave the ball back every second time we got it for this group.

The heart and effort was great yesterday and the supporter turnout fantastic but this is killing us.

[Biffen 12,342]

Can kick/handball

Sylvia, Jurrah ,Grimes ,Jetta ,Martin ,Petterd ,Srauss ,Bennell ,Gysberts

Guys that cannot hit the target

Jordy McKenzie ,Joel Mac ,Bartram ,Dunn ,Morton ,Tom Mc ,Sellars .

We are turning over more than BHP at the moment .

Edited April 23, 2012 by Biffen

[drdrake 3,038]

Can kick/handball

Sylvia, Jurrah ,Grimes ,Jetta ,Martin ,Petterd ,Srauss ,Bennell ,Gysberts

Guys that cannot hit the target

Jordy McKenzie ,Joel Mac ,Bartram ,Dunn ,Morton ,Tom Mc ,Sellars .

We are turning over more than BHP at the moment .

Biffen, we must watch different teams, Martin, Bennell, Petterd and Gysberts a little questionable IMO. The only players I have 100% faith in is Watts, Howe, Sylvia, Jurrah, Davey, Jones has a good kick but makes the wrong decisions, Grimes is a good kick but trys to kick it to low. Sellar has a good kick we just don't know it as he only has had the footy a handful of times.

The issue with us is we have to many players that just can't hit targets my list includes

Frawley, Garland, MacDonald, Rivers, Bartram(our backline from last night)

There is a difference from having bad skills to making bad decisions, the players below have OK skills but make bad decisions

Morton, Bail, Moloney, Jones, McKenzie(our midfield from last night) McDonald

And these guys just can't get enough of the footy for us to get a fair assessment

Dunn, Sellar, Trengove, Davey

Thats 14 out of 21 that started last night, either can't consistantly hit targets or make good decisions when they have the footy or can't get it enough.

[wmth 69]

Yes, I read the efficiency % in the paper this morning. Pales in comparison to the Bulldogs. Amazing we came close.

No doubt this is due to just poor skills by some, but the way we get our (limited) ball is also a factor. It's in tight, with no one (or structure allowing) to release it to. It's always a hurried kick.

The good sides have structure and set plays with players in waiting and as a result, they move away from stoppages quickly and efficiently. We either have no one in a good position, or too many going in while the oppositions whisks it away.

It is almost impossible for a player to get 30 touches with our style. There is no balance between inside and outside ball.

For us to win, good players need a lot of the ball i.e trengove etc.

My feeling is the way we are playing makes it look like he, and others, are badly out of form. bombing long and focing stoppages is not a way to rack up possessions and have a big influence. It will come, but there is not enough looking inward, hardly a switch and hardly any easy ball (not a bad thing).

One positive: it's the same problem every week. As Neeld said, it's about building a foundation. A foundation built from layers of hard ball gets. Not a bad place to build from.

[Biffen 12,342]

Biffen, we must watch different teams, Martin, Bennell, Petterd and Gysberts a little questionable IMO. The only players I have 100% faith in is Watts, Howe, Sylvia, Jurrah, Davey, Jones has a good kick but makes the wrong decisions, Grimes is a good kick but trys to kick it to low. Sellar has a good kick we just don't know it as he only has had the footy a handful of times.

The issue with us is we have to many players that just can't hit targets my list includes

Frawley, Garland, MacDonald, Rivers, Bartram(our backline from last night)

There is a difference from having bad skills to making bad decisions, the players below have OK skills but make bad decisions

Morton, Bail, Moloney, Jones, McKenzie(our midfield from last night) McDonald

And these guys just can't get enough of the footy for us to get a fair assessment

Dunn, Sellar, Trengove, Davey

Thats 14 out of 21 that started last night, either can't consistantly hit targets or make good decisions when they have the footy or can't get it enough.

Well said.There is an important difference between constant skill errors and bad decision making .

Some players have one problem ,others have both .The lack of block/shepherding compounds it .

[mauriesy 6,813]

we must watch different teams ...

Indeed, we must watch different teams. Based on the official disposal efficiency (%) stats from yesterday (below), Frawley, Rivers and MacKenzie contradict your list. In fact, they were among the best.

Watts 83

Frawley 81

Rivers 80

McKenzie 79

Bate 75

Dunn 75

T McDonald 73

Trengove 69

Tapscott 67

Bartram 64

Garland 60

Bail 58

Howe 58

Jones 55 (his worst this year)

Moloney 53

Morton 52

Jamar 50

J Macdonald 50

Magner 50

Davey 44

Clark 43

Sellar 25

[mauriesy 6,813]

Well said.There is an important difference between constant skill errors and bad decision making .

Is there? What's the effective difference between bad skills and bad decision making when the outcome is a turnover?

[Biffen 12,342]

Is there? What's the effective difference between bad skills and bad decision making when the outcome is a turnover?

One of those problems can be fixed with coaching.

Constant skill error at he age of 24 or 25 means we may have to let the guy go .

Frawley and Garland are not in this category .

Joel Mac ,Dunn ,McKenzie ,Bartram are .

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,462]

I'd be wary of using the kicking efficiency figures for individual players. According to the figures for all teams, forwards have poorer kicking efficiency than defenders. I suspect this is because a shot for goal that scores anything other than a goal is deemed to be ineffective, and, I suspect, it does not take into account from where the kick is taken. Nevertheless, even without using statistical measures it's plain to the eye that disposal for our team is a significant problem.

As mentioned above, some of this is likely to be due to pressure being placed on the player kicking because he's often not in open space, but there is no denying we have more poor kicks on the list than desirable.

[mauriesy 6,813]

One of those problems can be fixed with coaching.

Constant skill error at he age of 24 or 25 means we may have to let the guy go .

Frawley and Garland are not in this category .

Joel Mac, Dunn, McKenzie, Bartram are .

I'm not so sure that one is more or less teachable than the other, but anyway, carry on.