Whilst I don't agree with all you've said I do agree with that. There were no players on our side that could come of the ground thinking they'd done a good job, none.

Yes, there comes a time where even the coach must get honest.

Todays game could well be the easiest game we play this year...If Ablett is out then GC still exists, granted.

But if this team is going to fumble and miss kick against Footscray...then we have too many VFL players on the list.

Just watch Wet Coke and Hawthorn....the MFC couldn't cope with 4 minutes of that intensity right now.

Mitch Clark earnt his pay...make no mistake.

Dr, do you throw all the pieces of your Jig Saw puzzles into the air, all at once & expect them to land perfectly in place?

Not really sure what you mean??? There were plenty of things I was unhappy with but they did have a crack and I could see what they (or the coach) was trying to do.

When Rivers (late in the game) ignores three players relatively on their own across CHF and kicks it wide to the flank directly to a Dogs player it's not because Rivers is an idiot. It is because he is trying to reinforce the coaches instructions of where he wants the players to be. Rivers basically seemed to be making a point that he would kick it to where the players were meant to be, not to where they were. Now this might be nothing more than one of our older heads trying to make a point on discipline to his team-mates. It could also point to greater issues within the team but at this stage I'll take it as Rivers just trying to make a point when the game was done and dusted.

Grant our backline isnt a strength anymore. Garland has turned to crap, Macdonald and Batram are utterly terrible, we have a young kid in Mcdonald whose disposal isnt up to it yet and Frawley is a shadow of his former self. Rivers shone today. Thats hardly anything to write home about.

We also have a forward line that has a soft small forward, a nothing player in Dunn, we have little to no forward pressure and we have a lug in Sellar who only gets in peoples way.

Sadly it is not just the midfield that is the problem

Only because you don't understand the little things that happened today, that make no sense to you yet. The desire to committ the body to lay tackles & to chase & harass with intent, was a sight for sore Eyes. Forget the rabble teamwork stuff today, the rustiness & lack of confidence. The willingness to do the dirty work, even if unco', was, A BIG STEP.

If you think today was a BIG STEP, you are not marking the cards nearly high enough..

We were playing the westies who are on the brink of starting their fall to the depths....We should have put the sword to them for that reason.

You said "And FFS Morton stop being so lazy you can't be arsed hitting a target by hand 3meters away."

Blaming Morton for missing a handball by saying that he "can't be arsed hitting a target" is completely mindless. What you are saying is that he thought about hitting the target, but instead made the decision to not bother to hit the target. Do you understand how silly this is? You have a default opinion for Morton (that he's lazy) and are just attributing any error he makes as being a result of that. It's wrong and it's mindless. You didn't think about it, you just said it. It's mindless.

Hence it being mindless bashing. You do it all the time.

Alright then- he is too crap of an AFL player to hit a target a metre away. Better?

I agree, but better to start off having too many, trying to make Real Tackles, than have none tackling at all or pretending.

Having too many, we can adjust that. Playing without ticker or aggression, well theres no hope they're.

Fair point. As you & others have said, self- belief is a most important factor but equally important, belief in your team mates will ability to hold a mark or make a tackle stick is also a prerequisite. This will no doubt come if the performances keep on improving.

I also wanted to say that there were some umpiring shockers against us today but I don't think we should use that as an excuse. If we kicked straighter earlier on, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Garland has turned to crap,

Really? What was his role today - do you know? How has his role changed since last year?

I thought he was reasonably good today.

Firstly let me start by saying I can't believe the predicament we now find ourselves in.....the possibility of waiting until late June for our first win! I'm as filthy as anyone that we have gone backwards at such an astounding rate of knots. We must all realize by now that we WILL finish bottom 3 or 4!

BUT

If we could have done just 2 of the most basic things in football, we would have won by a comfortable margin today.

1) Kick goals from very gettable set shots.

2) Hit a target whilst in possession.

It is cringeworthy how bad we were at these 2 simple but so important factors, but considering they had 90 odd more possessions than us, we did pretty well to be in the game for all but the last 5 or so minutes.

If you can't look for positives ( admittedly, they are few n far between) you are in for a miserable 4 months ahead!

You said "And FFS Morton stop being so lazy you can't be arsed hitting a target by hand 3meters away."

Blaming Morton for missing a handball by saying that he "can't be arsed hitting a target" is completely mindless. What you are saying is that he thought about hitting the target, but instead made the decision to not bother to hit the target. Do you understand how silly this is? You have a default opinion for Morton (that he's lazy) and are just attributing any error he makes as being a result of that. It's wrong and it's mindless. You didn't think about it, you just said it. It's mindless.

Hence it being mindless bashing. You do it all the time.

He shits me to tears because I haven't given up on him, like I have on so many others.

Sorry if we can't all be so emotionally disconnected like you. Footy may be just a game of stats and tactics to you, but it isn't to me.

It hurts me to see us suck so badly and it annoys me when talented players make stupid mistakes under no pressure.

My only default view is that we have too many talented players who have coasted by for too long without any accountability.

Just watched the replay after being at the game today... Not sure why I felt the need.

It's very evident that Watts has almost everything as a footballer... except for intensity. He really could have been the difference tonight, he had 4 or 5 opportunities to really shine but just couldn't step it up a notch.

What is it going to take?

Torture a kitten in front of him? Jumper leads to the nipples?

Why doesn't he care?

Stop!!!!!!!! This was our best performance for the year CLEARLY. Seriously, we played the game out and, you know what, Morton was ok. Some of you need to get a grip. It's as if you can't wait to bag the crap out of your own side.

It probably was our best for the year but Morton was certainly not ok. Look at his body language and the intensity of his attack on the ball. A couple of half-hearted attempts at physicality but nothing of the standard required. Maybe he needs another twenty games before we make a decision but he's not doing anything to help his chances. My fear is that we'll ditch him and he'll end up starring for someone else who can afford to have an outside receiver who never gets his own ball.

Neeld said at his post-game presser that Dunn was good in the second-half. I mean seriously, does he take supporters for morons?

yeah, 8 kicks and 2 handballs. He was mad!

All in all I'm much encouraged by the game today. Reality says that the only reason we lost was the skill errors. We played with much more heart and intensity that we have shown in the first three rounds and showed some real ability in attack. Neeld has said repeatedly that the team already know how to attack and his job is to teach them to defend. I think we saw that today. The Dogs were repeatedly forced to reverse course and bring the ball right back to their defensive 50 (which elevated their disposal count a lot) because they couldn't find a way through. When we attacked through the middle we looked quite good.

I also think that overall our list is in better shape than theirs. The real damage was done by the usual suspects and they are all getting on in years. None of their talls look particularly good. The doggies got the ball forward breaking up the play. They deliberately kicked mongrels when under pressure because they expected to win the ground level ball, and it worked. That sort of play won't work against a better midfield. They scored most of their goals through scrapping and working the loose ball forwards. They got the four points today, but if I were a Dogs supporter I'd be very worried about that squad.

Points of note for me:

- If we hadn't made so many silly disposal errors the possession count would have been far better and probably in our favour.

- We need to have better hands. Far too often we got the ball clear of the pack to an open player and he failed to pick it up cleanly. This of course gave the doggies time to pressure him.

- Watts may be the most scragged player in the league. I truly think the he must have run over Gieschen's cat or something. Have a look at how often he is taken down before he can get to the ball/contest. It seems to be standard procedure to throw yourself into the back of his knees when he outsprints you.

- We NEED to make some changes in the backline. No team can support that many bad kicks in their defensive 50. Strauss has to come back, even if his defence is suspect, and I would rather have Davis than Tom McDonald at the moment.

- Mitch Clark is gold. Not just his attack on the ball but his attack on the man as well. Loved the huge tackle he made, even if the ump gave a charity free for it.

- The Umpires have it in for us. I know the free kick count was even, but they paid repeated frees to the Dogs where they could score from them, they ignored frees to our forwards and gave us some cheap consolation frees around HB and wing where they couldn't do any real harm.

- Bate's passing into the forward line is first rate and he's finding more and more of the ball as he settles into the midfield.

Not really sure what you mean??? There were plenty of things I was unhappy with but they did have a crack and I could see what they (or the coach) was trying to do.

When Rivers (late in the game) ignores three players relatively on their own across CHF and kicks it wide to the flank directly to a Dogs player it's not because Rivers is an idiot. It is because he is trying to reinforce the coaches instructions of where he wants the players to be. Rivers basically seemed to be making a point that he would kick it to where the players were meant to be, not to where they were. Now this might be nothing more than one of our older heads trying to make a point on discipline to his team-mates. It could also point to greater issues within the team but at this stage I'll take it as Rivers just trying to make a point when the game was done and dusted.

What I mean. When a young side has the start to a season from Hell, Rnd 1 after an depleting funeral, then a smashing at the hands of one of the top 3 sides over the other side of the country. And key players out injured or in a media minefield, how hard do you think it is to get back team equilibrium.

We are just seeing Beamer back, & soon Sylvia, I hope. Then Grimes next week, maybe with or without Clarke? All the while with a very young list bereft of experience & short on for strong bodies.

We will see a slow improvement over the next few weeks, bit by bit, as we piece together our season.

as much as i dislike umpire bashing I agree with Striker475 that crucial bad decisions may have cracked our fragile team today.

here's my rundown..

Watts - needs to keep on his feet, zero defensive pressure

Bate - very good today

Davey - getting confidence back, good on ground but shirks in the air

Morton - I actually wish he didn't kick that goal because it might lead to him getting a run again next week, seriously how does he get a game?

Moloney - welcome back

Neeld - We had an early pick of the coaches and stuffed that up as well!

chopping block - Morton / MacDonald

Melbourne Demons FC - "Could probably do it, but it's not gonna happen" - the stoners of the AFL

My side should they be all fit and ready to go next week :

B - Garland Frawley Bartram

HB - Tapscott Rivers McDonald

C - Moloney Couch Jones

HF - Sylvia Watts Howe

F - Green Clark Davey

R - Jamar Magnar Trengove

Int : McKenzie, Bate, Bail, Sellar (sub)

You're seriously dropping Morton?

I'm going to go out on a limb here (and it's obviously a huge tree) but I think Morton will be a better winger than Watts will be a CHF.

Seriously, Watts is soft. Not anywhere near enough body strength (upper or lower) to play CHF. Unless of course he is constantly being moved out of position so easily because he's playing for a free kick, which is also bad for an 'alleged' CHF.

Cut your losses and put him on the wing. He'd be handy with his pace and he'd be okay using his length to spoil kicks coming out of our forward 50 when the press is on.

Oh, and I almost forgot, long story short, I was watching the 4th quarter tonight that I had recorded and watched Watts give the lamest attempt at a smother I have ever seen. Ball just inside their 50 and a Dogs player trying to centre the ball to the corridor. Watts steps in, puts one hand out, turns his head, turns his shoulders away and gets nowhere near it. FFS, a tough, committed and courageous (traits of a true CHF) player would dive on that s&*t.

Just watched the replay after being at the game today... Not sure why I felt the need.

It's very evident that Watts has almost everything as a footballer... except for intensity. He really could have been the difference tonight, he had 4 or 5 opportunities to really shine but just couldn't step it up a notch.

What is it going to take?

Torture a kitten in front of him? Jumper leads to the nipples?

Why doesn't he care?

I just watched the latest episode of "Mad Men" Season 5...i found it a much better option.

yeah, 8 kicks and 2 handballs. He was mad!

And his opponent? Who was he? How did he go? What sort of influence did he have?

He's killed us more than once in his career.

Grant our backline isnt a strength anymore. Garland has turned to crap, Macdonald and Batram are utterly terrible, we have a young kid in Mcdonald whose disposal isnt up to it yet and Frawley is a shadow of his former self. Rivers shone today. Thats hardly anything to write home about.

We also have a forward line that has a soft small forward, a nothing player in Dunn, we have little to no forward pressure and we have a lug in Sellar who only gets in peoples way.

Sadly it is not just the midfield that is the problem

I agree we are carrying some deadwood. It puzzles me why Bartram is getting a game let alone in the leadership group.

Although Garland isnt at his best this year he is still better than most. I wont accept Frawley is a shadow of his former self. He is having an outstanding year and if he was in a top 4 side the AFL world would be singing his praises. In loosing performances he shut down Kennedy (fresh off a 5 something goal performance) and Reiwold the following week. Make no mistake he is elite and unappreciated.

Our true backline should be: Frawley, Garland, Grimes, Davis, Tapscott + fringe player

Forwards should be: Watts, Jurrah, Clark, Howe, Petterd, Slyvia

We havent seen this combo due injury etc, but I have no doubt it is a group with immense talent that can comp against anyone.

As for the rest of the side, we're loosing bc we carry the deadwood of Bartram, Bate, SELLAR, Morton. These guys gets games for some unknown reason. You could throw Green, Davey & Rivers into that side but I know why they're given a game.

Keepers in the midfield: Jones, Trenners, Moloney, McKenzie

Bail has been poor this year but today showed some improvement - another positive!

Just watched the replay after being at the game today... Not sure why I felt the need.

It's very evident that Watts has almost everything as a footballer... except for intensity. He really could have been the difference tonight, he had 4 or 5 opportunities to really shine but just couldn't step it up a notch.

What is it going to take?

Torture a kitten in front of him? Jumper leads to the nipples?

Why doesn't he care?

Someone was saying last night he's better than NicNat. I laughed. NicNat has something that elevates him miles above Watts: appetite for the contest. Watts's miss from dead in from was bad, the dropped mark was pathetic, Morton-like. Symptomatic of the team.

If you think today was a BIG STEP, you are not marking the cards nearly high enough..

We were playing the westies who are on the brink of starting their fall to the depths....We should have put the sword to them for that reason.

Oh you think I'm a soft marker?

Just realistic WYL. Throwing tanties doesn't do anything but create more tanties.

No, I know how hard it is for these young teams to reorganise there confidence, individually & team wise as well, to get a cohesiveness about the side is not easy in a toughly contested & strategic AFL game.

The Western Bulldogs are more experienced & mature than our boys, & are also on the same learning curve were on, re the new coach & a new brand of football. they are further ahead of us at present 7 have been for a few years, but the wheel is turning & we are growing.

The fact we way out of form & confidence just makes it appear worse than it is. But it's incredibly hard to get the team back up, when they're collectively so far down.

We will.

Today we lost for 3 reasons.

1. Skill errors.

2. When the game was there to be won, the dogs senior players stood up. Cooney, Murphy et al.

3. I don't normally critisize the umpires, but today they absolutely crucified us. Guy takes two bounces, gets tackled and it's play on? Wtf

Fair point. As you & others have said, self- belief is a most important factor but equally important, belief in your team mates will ability to hold a mark or make a tackle stick is also a prerequisite. This will no doubt come if the performances keep on improving.

I also wanted to say that there were some umpiring shockers against us today but I don't think we should use that as an excuse. If we kicked straighter earlier on, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Exactly. Get the basics right first, the 1%'s, the chasing, the tackling the head down - arse up stuff that will inspire teammates, rather than bewilder them.

Then the pride will return to the players, & it will show, & then we will feel the intensity rise & good footy will start to flow.