I am sick of dismissing articles like this as plain bad luck!

The article is spot on.

Nik - Nat, Shuey & Redden would of been huge in our line - up right now.

Just like the 70's & early 80's we are the easy beat laughing stock of the AFL.

After experiancing life as a demon supporter from 1987 - 2006 we should never have tumbled back here again.

We need to get it right again (What a joke, after all those early draft picks), we desperately need luck but most of all we need the 2012 list to show some resistance.

The reward for crap season number 6 in a row is early draft picks in a strong draft. This sound familiar to anyone?

PS: Swooper, thanks for the HS website tip

I am sick of dismissing articles like this as plain bad luck!

The article is spot on.

Nik - Nat, Shuey & Redden would of been huge in our line - up right now.

Just like the 70's & early 80's we are the easy beat laughing stock of the AFL.

After experiancing life as a demon supporter from 1987 - 2006 we should never have tumbled back here again.

We need to get it right again (What a joke, after all those early draft picks), we desperately need luck but most of all we need the 2012 list to show some resistance.

The reward for crap season number 6 in a row is early draft picks in a strong draft. This sound familiar to anyone?

PS: Swooper, thanks for the HS website tip

You have my vote OMR for what it is worth

What I got from that article is Mark Stevens has named his column after the shape of his head and he goes to the same hairdresser as that DH who joined GWS..

The HS have seriously got the worst journo's going around.

Sad you still think this way but you are right on one thing you have plenty around here that will agree with you - but such is life.

Constantly looking in the rear vision mirror will kill you if you are not careful.

You have no footy acumen whatsoever.

Btw, calling Blease and Strauss mistakes doesn't mean that I don't see their ability and nor does it mean that they won't play 100+ games. I like Strauss as a footballer and watched him for Vic Metro prior to being drafted. I doubt you watch any junior footy.

But that doesn't mean in hindsight that I'd take those players, because I wouldn't. Hindisght, of course, is a wonderful thing, but recruiters are paid for their foresight. And yes, clearly I realise you don't value draft picks and think that it's all about development and nothing else. Just as clearly, I think you're a dill.

Edited April 19, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

Guys.

- Hindsight, 20/20

- Those two players have both broken their legs. You can rattle on all you want about luck, but a snapped leg is generally a 12 month injury for a professional sportsman. Think about a 'normal' person breaking their leg. At least 6 weeks in a plaster cast, followed by instructions to avoid any serious sport for a further 3 to 4 months. Generally it's about 6 months without doing a thing. Then you have to rebuild your fitness levels - running a lot etc. This can be further set back by soft-tissue injuries in the legs as they have been inactive for so long.

- Jack Redden has a Brownlow medallist standing next to him when he walks onto the field. He also had another guy who was a contender for a while there.

- Luke Shuey has a guy who nearly one a Brownlow. As well as one of the best ruckmen in the competition. And half a premiership side surrounding him.

The reality is, our 2000-2005 drafting is what's killing us now. We were always going to have to go through the mass retirements from 2007 onwards. Look at our best 22 in 2006 and see how many of them were still playing by 2009, for example. Compare that to West Coast and Brisbane and look at some of the names that are still there.

You have no footy acumen whatsoever.

Btw, calling Blease and Strauss mistakes doesn't mean that I don't see their ability and nor does it mean that they won't play 100+ games. I like Strauss as a footballer and watched him for Vic Metro prior to being drafted. I doubt you watch any junior footy.

But that doesn't mean in hindsight that I'd tale those players, because I wouldn't. Hindisght, of course, is a wonderful thing, but recruiters are paid for their foresight. And yes, clearly I realise you don't value draft picks and think that it's all about development and nothing else. Just as clearly, I think you're a dill.

get it right Ben.....it's not all about development.....it's all about development $$$$$$$$s

ya gotta buy-in

in modern football AFL that is....................don't worry the penny will drop for you and the majority of people here eventually

get on board or perish

and i don't find it surprising that people here can't understand that BP is in a pivotal position at carlton.....ah well never worry

I am sick of dismissing articles like this as plain bad luck! The article is spot on. Nik - Nat, Shuey & Redden would of been huge in our line - up right now.

Look, it's a hypothetical but these three kids are far more sheltered than they would be if they played for Melbourne and I don't think they would be doing better than say a Trengove, who is struggling to make an impact and he is better than the lot of them.

And yes, clearly I realise you don't value draft picks and think that it's all about development and nothing else. Just as clearly, I think you're a dill.

Absolute rubbish - read what I said you are the dill. I value ALL draft picks when you are spending the money to develop them. Subtle difference to both your & rpfc argument.

You over rate early draft picks - thats common - I can deal with that.

Its you that comes out with the ridiculous "top 5 draft picks are gold" - bulldust.

Its you that clearly dont get it - but not un-common around here.

Edited April 19, 201213 yr by Dr Who

get it right Ben.....it's not all about development.....it's all about development $$$$$$$$s

ya gotta buy-in

in modern football AFL that is....................don't worry the penny will drop for you and the majority of people here eventually

get on board or perish

and i don't find it surprising that people here can't understand that BP is in a pivotal position at carlton.....ah well never worry

Why does this not surprise me from you. Sure I can feel another English lesson coming on. Stick to that I'm learning something from you.

I value ALL draft picks when you are spending the money to develop them.

How often have you said, "it's not the draft picks" ? We all know that they need to be developed and have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ spent on them. And we all know that this wasn't happening enough at the MFC. No revelations there.

It was more appropriate when a chimp was your avatar.

So the [censored] bag award for revisionist history in 5c ( I spent too much ) psuedo-journalism goes to ...........drum roll.............Muck Stevens!!!!

Honestly mate, did some kid in a Melbourne jumper take his ball home and not play kick to kick with you when you were youngen ?

Cant wait for the next instalment of Red and Blue Hills !

Look, it's a hypothetical but these three kids are far more sheltered than they would be if they played for Melbourne and I don't think they would be doing better than say a Trengove, who is struggling to make an impact and he is better than the lot of them.

Their whole argument is hypothetical - based on bleating, bulldust & ignorance.Sometimes just sometimes you have to deal with what you have.

Look at the causes and not the symptoms. But I'm the silly one - hehehehe - lets see.

How often have you said, "it's not the draft picks" ? We all know that they need to be developed and have $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ spent on them. And we all know that this wasn't happening enough at the MFC. No revelations there.

It was more appropriate when a chimp was your avatar.

Fail - touched a raw nerve with you have I - you pedal your rubbish some might believe it. Others might question it.

Well its not at SOME clubs!!!! Penny dropped yet.

Edited April 19, 201213 yr by Dr Who

Their whole argument is hypothetical - based on bleating, bulldust & ignorance.Sometimes just sometimes you have to deal with what you have. Look at the causes and not the symptoms. But I'm the silly one - hehehehe - lets see.

Strangely, I don't know what you are talking about.

My 'Shuey and Redden would be struggling in losses for the MFC if we picked them up' theory is what is hypothetical. I don't know that for certain.

If you are trying to tie in your well-worn, already discussed and acknowledged ad-nauseum-before-you-arrived point about the money some clubs have invested in player development, please refrain - that isn't my point.

My point is the beating up of Watts, now Blease and Strauss by the press as bad picks are articles too early in the making. And the way they speciously tie those picks to our current predicament is misleading, lazy, frustrating AND it takes the blame away from the senior players who haven't done enough and those at the club who have made a serious error in judgement when they gave the club over to the misfits when Junior and Bruce left and 'thinned the herd.'

De-luded I cannot agree with you in two areas

In my 50+ years of playing and watching football I have concluded that frightened players never improve.

Bennell will never change, he will always be that way.

Blease is IMO a one trick pony, gets the ball and dashes down field. might be ok at VFL level but from what i can see he has no other tricks and his kicking is poor.

We need to drop 5- 6 from our list at the end of 2012.

Bennell is on top of my list and Blease is a maybe based on how he goes over the next 16 weeks.

Almost all, are frightened when young, & it's an adjustment at each progressing level.

Until you get to the level, where you struggle to believe if your good enough... thisd is where the mental toughness & ruggedness helps, & being kept back to mature can also help.

Throwing timid kids in can be a disaster. And some may learn to just seek the easy ball instead of an Honest approach & attack the game head on.. Any bells ring there?

I think its still too early to call on Jamie but the other has had warnings for over 12 months so far... lets see toward the end of the season...

Some of you blokes need to grow up.

There is nothing wrong with this article.

Mark Stevens was in a privileged position for that draft and he has gone back with the benefit of hindsight to give us who weren't there some insight. It's a perfectly reasonable journalistic exercise, and pretty interesting.

So you don't like it, too bad. Shooting the messenger is always the easiest thing.

I don't rate Bennell at all and clearly we could have done better out of that draft. Broken leg or not, the mistake was Strauss for mine. I can live with Blease. He does have blistering pace and if he gets the confidence to use it he could develop into a valuable player.

Pick 19 was where got it wrong.

And once more on the subject of Watts, it was absolutely the right call. Others here have said it already but I'll add my voice to those who reckon NicNat is all iciing, no cake - plenty of highlights but little football sense. Watts is an innate footballer and highly skilled below the knees as well as balanced and able to take a contested grab as well as a reliable and accurate kick. He is about as well rounded as Mark Stevens, one of the better H-S journos.

Some of you blokes need to grow up.

There is nothing wrong with this article.

Mark Stevens was in a privileged position for that draft and he has gone back with the benefit of hindsight to give us who weren't there some insight. It's a perfectly reasonable journalistic exercise, and pretty interesting.

So you don't like it, too bad. Shooting the messenger is always the easiest thing.

I don't rate Bennell at all and clearly we could have done better out of that draft. Broken leg or not, the mistake was Strauss for mine. I can live with Blease. He does have blistering pace and if he gets the confidence to use it he could develop into a valuable player.

Pick 19 was where got it wrong.

And once more on the subject of Watts, it was absolutely the right call. Others here have said it already but I'll add my voice to those who reckon NicNat is all iciing, no cake - plenty of highlights but little football sense. Watts is an innate footballer and highly skilled below the knees as well as balanced and able to take a contested grab as well as a reliable and accurate kick. He is about as well rounded as Mark Stevens, one of the better H-S journos.

Settle down, Mr. Stevens.

Hes blowing his own trumpet withe a revisionist verve. I wonder if hed be so amenable if others compared his predictions with outcomes. But thats unlikely as Stevens prefers to write after the fact unlike a more learned and informed commentator such as Quayle. Stevens idea of fishing would be a Trout farm !!!

But every clubs has supporters like these.

And every club has "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" supporters like you.

There are two sides to every discussion.

It was more appropriate when a chimp was your avatar.

More appropriate than an empty vessel?

Strangely, I don't know what you are talking about.

My 'Shuey and Redden would be struggling in losses for the MFC if we picked them up' theory is what is hypothetical. I don't know that for certain.

If you are trying to tie in your well-worn, already discussed and acknowledged ad-nauseum-before-you-arrived point about the money some clubs have invested in player development, please refrain - that isn't my point.

My point is the beating up of Watts, now Blease and Strauss by the press as bad picks are articles too early in the making. And the way they speciously tie those picks to our current predicament is misleading, lazy, frustrating AND it takes the blame away from the senior players who haven't done enough and those at the club who have made a serious error in judgement when they gave the club over to the misfits when Junior and Bruce left and 'thinned the herd.'

THIS

Thank God we didn't take Lewis Johnson.

Maybe we just had too many Johnstons/Johnsons ......

Settle down, Mr. Stevens.

You got me.

Thank God we didn't take Lewis Johnson.

Maybe we just had too many Johnstons/Johnsons ......

Taken by the swans, generally regarded as being very good at the recruitment game...

Some of you blokes need to grow up.

There is nothing wrong with this article.

Mark Stevens was in a privileged position for that draft and he has gone back with the benefit of hindsight to give us who weren't there some insight. It's a perfectly reasonable journalistic exercise, and pretty interesting.

So you don't like it, too bad. Shooting the messenger is always the easiest thing.

I don't rate Bennell at all and clearly we could have done better out of that draft. Broken leg or not, the mistake was Strauss for mine. I can live with Blease. He does have blistering pace and if he gets the confidence to use it he could develop into a valuable player.

Pick 19 was where got it wrong.

And once more on the subject of Watts, it was absolutely the right call. Others here have said it already but I'll add my voice to those who reckon NicNat is all iciing, no cake - plenty of highlights but little football sense. Watts is an innate footballer and highly skilled below the knees as well as balanced and able to take a contested grab as well as a reliable and accurate kick. He is about as well rounded as Mark Stevens, one of the better H-S journos.

You point to Blease's elite attribute in speed saying he could be valuable

What about Strauss' elite kicking? is that not a valuable asset? Look at Hawthorn, loaded with elite kicks