The Edge of oblivion

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Hey there my fellow passionate demonlanders!

After what was widely regarded as a stellar off-season (until 5 weeks ago) our great club has found itself in possibly the most difficult and precarious situation in it's history.

Our position is both unique and unprecedented having only recently resolved a long-standing financial burden but also resolved a well overdue spiritual re-alignment with our rich MCC heritage.

The off-field basket case for which we were rightly ridiculed, has received a culture change.

Our on-field however, still bathes in a culture of self-fulfilling failure.

We were undeniably bold in our efforts to rebuild the playing list and in doing so erase the inherent losing mentality that has plagued us since 64, but we made some mistakes. I for one am proud that we took such courageous and drastic risks and the errors (although painful) I can accept.

The result though is s list of kids without any (literally) leadership. even GWS and GCS have more (and insulting the injury) shows James Macdonald leading one of those sides.

I feel that we cannot wait for or kids to develop into senior players and cop the beatings that will result for another sustained period, as this might see the demise of the MFC.

So my question is this . . .

What players can we trade for, what quality can we offer (and please don't throw dead-wood into discussions) to entice clubs in active trade?

Are our compo picks (in a superdraft) more wisely used in offering to top teams with later picks and salary cap pressure with strong older players?

Is the solution the one that would seem counter-intuitive? Trade the picks?

I would just love some discussion on anyone that is theoretically available and (given the room) in our cap who we would happily pay big overs for?

Is this suggestion rubbish? whatever the response I welcome it because like you all are I'm just searching for any hope I can find here.

Peace

Dan

[Angelus BTVS 31]

From what i remember current status is

Unrestricted

Bate, dunn, jamar, green, Rivers

Restricted

Moloney

Of these Moloney would hold some value and also jamar. Due to the status of jamar and free agency rules we would need him to have a very good year in order to maybe get an end of first round compensation pick at best. Moloney we would have option to match bid but why would we? Again if moloney has another good year then might recieve an end of first round pick.

The only other player on list of value that i would be prepared to consider moving on would be blease. He has potentially massive upside but needs to play in order to show value to other clubs.

We need to find several star players for the midfield. Unfortunately in our current state i dont believe the likes of a goddard would even consider the move. I would make my number 1 target David Swallow, beleive him to be out of contract at GC and looking to either get back home or closer to his brother. The kid will be a star and i would go hard for him and he would cost a lot in terms of picks and cash but he is exactly the type of player we need and has been under the guidance of G.Ablett for 2 years.

Going by above we could make a move this year and potentially end up with 5 picks before the 2nd round alone in what is said to be the best draft yet. If using all picks then the recruiters need to have a successful crop come thru as it would make or break the club.

[mauriesy 7,265]

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

[3031 11]

A mature post Maurie. Thanks

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

Edited April 14, 2012 by 3031

[Face Your Demons 175]

We really just have to wait and see if things improve. we know they can play "no really they can" just hope they click a a team

[Angelus BTVS 31]

Well swallow re signed with suns so off market. Still believe is exactly the type of midfielder we need. Explosive, hard running determined player. Hit this draft hard demons. We have makings of a good team just 5 or so holes still, which could be catered for this draft with the right recruiting. And hope likes of watts, trengove, grimes,clark, frawley and sylvia (i know) fullfill there natural talent as could all be elite players. An would make those around them better players

[Demon Disciple 12,072]

It pains me to say it, becuase he is by far and away my favourite player and also happenes to be the most talented player on our list. But unless Sylvia has an absolute stellar year, i'd almost certainly consider trading him at the end of the year. We simply haven't seen him at his best on a regular basis, however he would command some great currency on the trade market.

We also desperately need more players of his experience and age on our list, let alone his talent. But Col will be 27 come November. If we are ever to have a serious tilt at challenging, his best will be well and truly past him. Do we need him? Hell yeah, but trading him and bringing in a younger player (whether through draft or trade) would help improve our chances of future success.

[Melbournepotter 378]

We need to recruit an experienced ruck (tall..not follower) and a good experienced midfielder to help gel the current team. Jamar is struggling and the other ruck stocks are either injured or not up to it. Put Martin at CHB. He's not a forward but has played down back previously with ( I believe) success,

Who the players are may be difficult. I don't know the contract status, but perhaps Warnock at Carlton. While injured, he may have slipped down the list so may want game time. I believe we tried for him before but failed...perhaps he'll change his mind ? We may have to look at the VFL to pick up some good mature footballers to give leadership to the current younger players. In hindsight, we have removed too many experience players, recruited the wrong players, while the senior players that are left are not providing the leadership required for some reason.

Has the loss of Bruce, McDonald and others affected the psyche of the other senior players ?

[dee-luded 2,959]

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

Naurie, Matthews also said, they trot out Gary Lyon to do figure head works as well.

Inferring we don't have people at the top prepared to stand up in the spotlight, to take the pressure & lead. He was talking heads of all dept's. Leadership. Culture... no ducking the Head.

Edited April 15, 2012 by dee-luded

[Guest José Mourinho]

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

Sorry Maurie.

Great post, but I think this last part isn't quite correct.

They THINK it will make them feel good.

[Sir Why You Little 36,994]

Naurie, Matthews also said, they trot out Gary Lyon to do figure head works as well.

Inferring we don't have people at the top prepared to stand up in the spotlight, to take the pressure & lead. He was talking heads of all dept's. Leadership. Culture... no ducking the Head.

We must recruit a topline midfielder(s) to put some pride right through the club.

Ready to go midfielders. Don't blame the defenders they are all working triple time.

Neeld spoke of supporter morale last night. It is important

The club must trade hell for leather this year.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,128]

We do not need to pay overs for mature B Graders. We need to load up on the best pure mids with our early draft picks and have them grow with the wave of kids we already have. Then look to see if we can pull another Magner from a second tier competition next year. Our players under 23 are quality but lack the bodies and confidence at this time. We have been waiting long enough already so now is not the time to become short sighted.

[Sir Why You Little 36,994]

We do not need to pay overs for mature B Graders. We need to load up on the best pure mids with our early draft picks and have them grow with the wave of kids we already have. Then look to see if we can pull another Magner from a second tier competition next year. Our players under 23 are quality but lack the bodies and confidence at this time. We have been waiting long enough already so now is not the time to become short sighted.

We need better than B Graders BRFE. That's my point.

The kids need a poster for the bedroom of an AFL star in a melbourne jumper, next year at the latest. Not in 3-5 years.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

We have holes evrywhere.

Needed: Gun midfielders of all size and description.

Pace off the half back flank.

Good ball use off the half back flank

A couple of quick small crumbing forwards.

These are my most pressing needs.

[thaipantsman 180]

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

emphatic NO to a suggested Blease trade. The kid broke his leg in the school ground and needs to be given time. I've seen enough in him to suggest a star will emerge. I even set my bike lock to 4646 sadly to see a number change.

That all said if members check my earlier posts, Dees do lack a Mentor. Off the top of my head Barassi as a player in 64, Hassa Mann, Robby Flower, Stan Alves, Gary Lyon, Jim Stynes, Sean Wight and many more. Alves might have been the medicine at the time he took over at the Saints. The passion of the red and blue seems to be lacking in the current group with hands out for the pay packet without the red and blue passion.

Why didn't we offer the job to Ratten? He worked well with Melbourne Midders. His Navy blue passion would have quickly changed to red and blue..he's the type!

It may come though! Watch for Watts and Blease. Sylvia and Moloney may spark big MJ back to some All Australian form and the rest can feed off this.

In a much earlier post I made mention of Leigh Williams without knowing a lot about him. I think he kicked around 80 +goals for Norwood last year is a big body but sadly also injured. Also friends quietly don't disagree that Fevola may have been worth a risk with a one year performance base contract. Melbourne require the services of one very goal hungry forward.

I agree we must wait till the end of this season and then form a judgement on Neeld however the buck does stop with him. Privately yes I'm worried as we all are.

Edited April 15, 2012 by thaipantsman

[jnrmac 20,055]

"Culture", "losing mentality", "lack of heart", "lack of leadership" ... all "nothing" terms and easy, sloppy analysis, used by unthinking supporters to vent their anger.

As Leigh Matthews said after yesterday, "Melbourne need to get proper structure around the stoppages, win the contested ball, use it well and spread". Then we'll get somewhere.

Throwing out half the side, demoting players "forever", sacking coaches and blaming assistants without any real evidence are knee-jerk reactions that just make you feel good.

Well done genius. You don't think Neeld has been teaching that?

Clearly the players are not doing it. Now what does he do? Give us some non-sloppy analysis from a thinking supporter?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,128]

We need better than B Graders BRFE. That's my point.

The kids need a poster for the bedroom of an AFL star in a melbourne jumper, next year at the latest. Not in 3-5 years.

Unless you can tell me who this star is that's available that will help us deliver a premiership I disagree. I have no interest in a stop gap I am interested in what is best to give us the best chance of ultimate success.

[demonique 314]

So right. We need mature age units to go with the young players. You can't overload developing youngsters!!!

We could look into the WAFL , SANFL , anywhere to get these guys ala Magner

WA and SA are far stronger leagues than VFL! I feel

[Sir Why You Little 36,994]

Unless you can tell me who this star is that's available that will help us deliver a premiership I disagree. I have no interest in a stop gap I am interested in what is best to give us the best chance of ultimate success.

Who is mentioning "stop gap??" This old club needs to get out of first gear...recruiting more kids as long term prospects is not what we need.

Interesting that Malthouse made some honest comments about the club, rather damming i heard..Trying to find a Podcast.

Would be interesting if Neeld or Leigh Brown have been chatting?

[Guest José Mourinho]

Well done genius. You don't think Neeld has been teaching that?

Clearly the players are not doing it. Now what does he do? Give us some non-sloppy analysis from a thinking supporter?

He keeps reinforcing it.

Only an idiot would expect drastic change after a preseason and 3 games.

Ross Lyon. Alistair Clarkson. Mark Thompson.

[Toorak 108]

So right. We need mature age units to go with the young players. You can't overload developing youngsters!!!

We could look into the WAFL , SANFL , anywhere to get these guys ala Magner

WA and SA are far stronger leagues than VFL! I feel

Tevez is looking for a new club. He might just be the answer!

[Angelus BTVS 31]

Who is mentioning "stop gap??" This old club needs to get out of first gear...recruiting more kids as long term prospects is not what we need.

Interesting that Malthouse made some honest comments about the club, rather damming i heard..Trying to find a Podcast.

Would be interesting if Neeld or Leigh Brown have been chatting?

wyl is this the comment ?

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/afl/13423152/malthouse-demons-arent-a-club/

agree in order for malthouse to come out with a comment like this he must have some insight into exactly what Neeld is up against. i beleive culture is extremely important at any workplace / club and it's definitely not a nothing term. Just look at what the bloods have done up in sydney. and how geelong have instilled thiers to all young players coming thru thier club.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,128]

Who is mentioning "stop gap??" This old club needs to get out of first gear...recruiting more kids as long term prospects is not what we need.

Interesting that Malthouse made some honest comments about the club, rather damming i heard..Trying to find a Podcast.

Would be interesting if Neeld or Leigh Brown have been chatting?

Maybe I will understand this more if you explain to me who you think we should be trying to recruit. I expect that you will struggle to come up with some realistic options. I am not saying dont bring in mature bodies but not the expense of using our top picks to overpay for players.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

From what I heard Malthouse said (and I didnt hear it as I was at the game) that Neeld had told him that the club was way behind where he initially thought and that it will take a long time to rebuild it from scratch. then he laid into Cale Morton for three quarters all of which Im sure he will reiterate in private to Neeld.

[Sir Why You Little 36,994]

wyl is this the comment ?

http://au.news.yahoo...s-arent-a-club/

agree in order for malthouse to come out with a comment like this he must have some insight into exactly what Neeld is up against. i beleive culture is extremely important at any workplace / club and it's definitely not a nothing term. Just look at what the bloods have done up in sydney. and how geelong have instilled thiers to all young players coming thru thier club.

Yes thankyou....i heard other journo's mentioning it this morning..

How far back is this club starting from & why?

I believe every word Malthouse is saying...he has been told first hand.