I just seem to get the impression these guys have the shits about the leadership situation. They can say they are fine and they are going to knuckle down and contribute and continue to lead etc, and they probably genuinely mean that. But when the heat gets put on them, when the hard stuff needs to be done, they just rollover and give in. I wish they understood that everyone in the football world can see these guys are exactly what is wrong with our club, and being over 25 doesn't give you a right to be a leader. Run out of chances for mine, and Green and Davey should be put out to graze and Moloney gets a chance to pull his finger out.

Davey - plays nest week. Forward pressure was good, but need to involve himself more (possession wise).

We must've been watching a different game. Davey was close to worst on ground in the game I watched.

Just stay home with your kids Aaron -have another one even .We'll just keep paying into your account and you can watch it on telly .

Just read the article on the Age about our club chaplain who has been with us since '97.(what a Jinx)

Another parasite on the payroll .

Harden up men .

People die all the time.

Focus on ripping the heart out of the opposition-they are the ones who are trying to kill you and this club.

The other article was about not blaming the Stynes factor .

Generation WHY?

Hearing Magner speak, he fully appreciates his opportunity to play AFL after so many years of being overlooked. He got to where he is the hard way and sees playing football in the AFL as a privilege, not a right.

I think many senior players need to realise this, and follow the example set by Magner.

I don't think being in or out of the leadership group would have changed the way they played. I'm glad they are out.

i have a mate who nows Moloney quite well through sponsorship at the club and he has told me that he is really [censored] at not being in the leadership group, and is carrying a major chip on his shoulder

Plenty of talk about playing well for Stynes yesterday. What about the old leadership group Green and co wanting to show the coach he was wrong in dropping them from the group.

Just so much to play for yesterday, just cannot forgive them. Do not care if a few NEVER play for the Demons again. In fact lets hope Casey play them in the 2nds

i have a mate who nows Moloney quite well through sponsorship at the club and he has told me that he is really [censored] at not being in the leadership group, and is carrying a major chip on his shoulder

He showed his leadership yesterday and why he is not in the leadership group.

i have a mate who nows Moloney quite well through sponsorship at the club and he has told me that he is really [censored] at not being in the leadership group, and is carrying a major chip on his shoulder

Also Beams did a great job on him as well. Jamar having a shocker didn't help.

Jamar got votes in the Age today

Hearing Magner speak, he fully appreciates his opportunity to play AFL after so many years of being overlooked. He got to where he is the hard way and sees playing football in the AFL as a privilege, not a right.

I think many senior players need to realise this, and follow the example set by Magner.

Agree, but this should extend to someone like blease aswell. How can a 24 year old magner come out of nowhere and show his heart and skills whilst someone like blease who has been in the elite system of the AFL with all the perks of coaches and support staff show such little effort and half assed contests? Pathetic. I truly believe some of our players are comfortable with treating footy as a job. They collect their cheque at the end of the week and if we win it's good and if we lose it's no drama.

Jamar got votes in the Age today

Still got quite a few hit-outs and a few contested marks.

Throw Davey into the middle. He's still slick enough to evade tacklers and his pace as an outside player is badly needed. Anyone who can carry the ball 4 or 5 steps to compose and deliver is much better than the outside mids we have now. Jones and Magner can go in and get it and Davey can run off with it.

Green seems to be unable to keep his feet after EVERY contest. Even with minimal contact he goes to ground. We are then 1 player down in the ensuing fight to gain possession. He has NO follow up from a contest.

Moloney can have a weekend beating up on VFL boys as far as I'm concerned. We have nowhere else for him to play to try and get him into the game. He's basically a follower or nothing. I'll take the latter next week. Give someone else a go.

Nicely put Twister. Exactly what i was asking bro yesterday as we got pummeled time and again from the clearances. Why isn't Davey being played through the middle (outside)? No class, poise, pace or silky skills outside....even on the rare occasions we managed first possession at the inside contests. Davey actually showed glimpes of his former self yesterday, but the rest as many have said, was pretty average....for his usual standard and experience.

Put him into the middle as an outside link man and also an occasional inside when he needs to go. Make him earn it and get him involved so he has no option and has nowhere to hide. He loves getting the ball (yes he's mostly a receiver) but once he gets it he's one of the few players in our team who can escape in traffic and find his way through to a lead up option up forward or further outside. And even if he cant find a lead up he at least drives the ball to advantage in some cases, without bombing it on top of the forward's heads like our other mids.

Green.....only option i can see here is to rotate off the bench out of the square in short stints. Elsewhere he just doesn't have the pace or tank (outside of his initial spurt) to chase down as you said when we don't have the ball. Not saying he isn't trying. Just past playing anywhere beyond 40 from goal now on the hit up.

Beamers not gone by a long way IMO. You can't kick last years top brownlow voter and B&F out for good after only one poor game. Some time downstairs might not hurt either but as someone said here, drop him and then our other mids get hard tagged.

But unless he's fed the ball with some great ruck tap work, he's in a bit of trouble getting to the contest and finding the ball enough times to provide an impact. No significant 2nd/3rd efforts after the initial one. Not saying he doesn't try, and he isn't alone, but just not able to impact often enough AFTER that first effort. Needs to change his build IMO. We all know he's a strong man upstairs, no question. But look to change him from being so top heavy to getting more speed/power, agility and drive through the hips and legs. If he's going to go to another level before it's too late in his career, this is a must i reckon. Stagnating atm.

You need to do more than attract a tagger and after a while the tagger won't be there anymore. Besides it's time for the others to learn how to deal with a tagger and they are not getting a good example. Brisbane get a lesson every game from Black, it is an unfair comparison I know as Black is one of the greats of the game.

I am surprised and disappointed - Neeld coached Collingwood's midfield, and I am sure they had to contend with taggers. I would have thought that given his recent history our midfield would be developing as a strength, not the weakest link that it is at present.

I guess he needs time, and we are impatient after nearly half a century on (mostly) mediocrity.

He promised lots: little delivered so far.

The lack, or really absence of any intensity yesterday was more disappointing IMO than the scorecard.

One can never tell what effect deep emotions have - positive or negatives, so I won't write them off just yet, but Mark, the natives are restless!

Ok, I am their biggest critic but...

Let's just give them some time.

If we are allowing everyone else the "getting used to Neeld's gameplan" excuse, you have to give it to the older boys too.

Ok, I am their biggest critic but...

Let's just give them some time.

If we are allowing everyone else the "getting used to Neeld's gameplan" excuse, you have to give it to the older boys too.

It would be harder to adjust for them as they would be more use to the old one. So you do have a point.

It would be harder to adjust for them as they would be more use to the old one. So you do have a point.

Exactly right. I didnt see the game only reading reviews through the papers. From what I can gather, although jamar got votes we got smashed through the middle and proceeded to bomb long to mitch who didnt kick a goal till the last 1/4.

Give it atleast 2-4 games before putting players to see their careers out at casey.

Yes its a horrid result, maybe, just maybe the senior players really are feeling are finding it without someone who was so dear to the club for their entire careers.

Just a thought.

Anyways, as we say every year lets see how they back it up this week

Agree, but this should extend to someone like blease aswell. How can a 24 year old magner come out of nowhere and show his heart and skills whilst someone like blease who has been in the elite system of the AFL with all the perks of coaches and support staff show such little effort and half assed contests? Pathetic. I truly believe some of our players are comfortable with treating footy as a job. They collect their cheque at the end of the week and if we win it's good and if we lose it's no drama.

nailed it.

none of our senior group seem to have the burning desire to want success

take note colin

I am surprised and disappointed - Neeld coached Collingwood's midfield, and I am sure they had to contend with taggers. I would have thought that given his recent history our midfield would be developing as a strength, not the weakest link that it is at present.

I guess he needs time, and we are impatient after nearly half a century on (mostly) mediocrity.

He promised lots: little delivered so far.

The lack, or really absence of any intensity yesterday was more disappointing IMO than the scorecard.

One can never tell what effect deep emotions have - positive or negatives, so I won't write them off just yet, but Mark, the natives are restless!

6 months on and I've learnt 1 thing, [censored] players are still [censored] players

Won the Bluey last year and got 19 Brownlow votes, a bad game in round 1 doesn't overshadow that.

He is still in the best 22.

He showed his leadership yesterday and why he is not in the leadership group.

im not saying he should be in the leadership group, im just stating he is disappointed his not

im not saying he should be in the leadership group, im just stating he is disappointed his not

Yes but thats the point he has no right to be disappointed. Time & time again when we need someone to step up no one does including him

im not saying he should be in the leadership group, im just stating he is disappointed his not

Yep, I understand what that you were just passing something on and my point is made at him, as loges says he has no right to be disappointed. If he were a true leader or had the qualities he would have done a Teddy and "Stuck it right up em"

Add Rivers. Too easily mismatched in a Body contest.

Sellar must come in.

Add Rivers. Too easily mismatched in a Body contest.

Sellar must come in.

Which is why I would love to see Rivers used as a'floating spoiler' in defence. Spoiling is his best quality so it would be great if he could be put on a less dangerous forward who likes to committ up the ground.

Any "leader" who adjusts his willingness to lead based on official titles is no leader at all. Leadership is a character trait that can only be turned off with a concerted effort, and can almost never be turned on by someone who doesn't have it naturally.

If Beamer is [censored] off at not being in the leadership group, then he doesn't deserve to be in it at all. Leaders don't lead for the benefit of themselves, but for the benefit of others.