I understand the logic too, but it's still a big no to Koshitski. And although you try to be diplomatic and nice, when it boils down to it, you don't want him either.

The very reason we kept Newton on the rookie list is to fill this need - that's how big it is - he was unable to do it.

I'm no Kosi-lover but he's the best option - talent, price and availability wise for a burning need. He's not a "spud" - how do you explain the fact that he averages more marks and more contested marks than Chris Dawes? He's versatil - he can ruck if necessary and he's a great kick. The main knock on him from my pov is his defensive skills - I'd like to see him lay more tackles.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Justin_Koschitzke.html

I think everyone on this thread agrees with one thing; they aren't the biggest Kosi fan. I will tell you the reason for this; it is his awareness.

I will cringe every time he goes near a contest and so will everyone else. He is a bumbling fool, and he will take out Watts, or Howe, or Jurrah- or any poor bastard who is unlucky enough to have him crip walking up to their contest. That is if he doesn't knock himself out and render himself useless by round 5.

He is a liability.

I would go for a Dawes or White over a Kosi type because the former have the potential to become very good 10 year players for us. Its risk versus reward, we can pay a first round pick for a potential 10 year KPF or we can pay peanuts for a gap fill.

Whilst Cook and Fitzpatrick also have the potential to become long term KPFs, you would have to say that Dawes and White are more proven.

We cannot keep accumulating first round picks, now that we are armed with three first rounders plus Viney over the next two drafts the time has come to take some calculated trade risks.

However, if we cannot land a younger KPF I certainly see the logic in getting a gap fill such as Kosi, provided its low cost.

I have said it before and Chris Dawes endorsed it.

People love to throw up the "we should go after this bloke with everything" and "the club is being derelict in their duties if they don't get him"...........but

Unless a player truly wants to move, and not only that, has the want and desire to improve and work hard for his new team then they are not worth a pinch of salt.

Dawes doesn't want to go anywhere because of the Collingwood environment.

I bet my ass Kosi is the same.

If as the OP suggests we need to play to a long strong forward target then what is to stop the club using a player that we already have on our list for this purpose until Cook / Fitzpatrick develop?

Why not use Jamar or Martin? Why not even use Fitzy and/or Cook and teach them at the best level how we want to play?

WHAT IS WITH THIS IMPATIENT NEED TO TRADE WHEN WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR A TOP FOUR OR PREMIERSHIP WINDOW???

Back the coach we have to develop the players we have and use the draft process for the big blokes.

If we are to trade, lets get a midfielder instead. But again, find me a QUALITY midfielder who WANTS to leave and that we can provide a suitable trade for???

The coach is the one who said that there are holes in our list, we don't know that one of them was the gorilla forward, but it is a fair bet. I think the idea of getting a plug and play forward is that if Neeld has his gameplan he wants to drill into our boys by the time our premiership window opens, he will require a bloke to fill every hole in the list to play said gameplan effectively. Now Cook and Fitzy just aren't there. We need Jamar in the ruck and Martin isn't good enough up front, so to fill that hole with someone who is coming towards the end of their career is not the worst idea. As long as it is not going to cost us an arseload, and is a good enough player to fill the void satisfactorily then it isn't a bad manoeuvre. I don't particularly like Kosi, but he wouldn't be the worst bloke we could look at, and the other thing is that he is probably someone we could dislodge. If not, there is nothing wrong with looking around.

I would go for a Dawes or White over a Kosi type because the former have the potential to become very good 10 year players for us. Its risk versus reward, we can pay a first round pick for a potential 10 year KPF or we can pay peanuts for a gap fill.

Whilst Cook and Fitzpatrick also have the potential to become long term KPFs, you would have to say that Dawes and White are more proven.

We cannot keep accumulating first round picks, now that we are armed with three first rounders plus Viney over the next two drafts the time has come to take some calculated trade risks.

However, if we cannot land a younger KPF I certainly see the logic in getting a gap fill such as Kosi, provided its low cost.

For sure, we would probably all prefer Dawes to Kosi for that very reason, but who is out there of that sort of ilk who we would be able to get? Some thought Dawes might be doable, but in reality he was never going anywhere, and why on earth would he. Young forward playing in a side about to take the field for their third GF in 2 years, to think he would want to leave is laughable IMO. So who else of that ilk is out there, that actually might be possible?

I think everyone on this thread agrees with one thing; they aren't the biggest Kosi fan. I will tell you the reason for this; it is his awareness. I will cringe every time he goes near a contest and so will everyone else. He is a bumbling fool, and he will take out Watts, or Howe, or Jurrah- or any poor bastard who is unlucky enough to have him crip walking up to their contest. That is if he doesn't knock himself out and render himself useless by round 5. He is a liability.

You are drastically overstating his weaknesses. If he was a bumbling fool who'd take out every other forward in every contest, I doubt St. Kilda would've let him anywhere near their prized forwards like Riewoldt or Milne during their finals campaigns.

Of course nobody here is going to be a "massive" Koschitzke fan - if he was a player everyone loved then he wouldn't be available. Sure we'd love to attract Jonathan Brown of the 00s or Chris Dawes, but at some point we have to realise that if we want to fill this hole from the current talent pool then it has to be a B-Grader, because the best players won't budge. This isn't accepting mediocrity (before anyone bothers suggesting it) - it's just being realistic.

He'd simply be there as an aide for building our structure. I quite like the idea as a stop-gap measure.

The very reason we kept Newton on the rookie list is to fill this need - that's how big it is - he was unable to do it.

I'm no Kosi-lover but he's the best option - talent, price and availability wise for a burning need. He's not a "spud" - how do you explain the fact that he averages more marks and more contested marks than Chris Dawes? He's versatil - he can ruck if necessary and he's a great kick. The main knock on him from my pov is his defensive skills - I'd like to see him lay more tackles.

http://stats.rleague...Koschitzke.html

If people were prepared to look at Dawes as an option, here's another suggestion: http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=113&pid1=200199&year1=2011&tid2=107&pid2=2007064&year2=2011

If people were prepared to look at Dawes as an option, here's another suggestion: http://www.pro-stats...7064&year2=2011

Dream on!

Yeah I know. Only a suggestion. Besides with the retirement of Mooney, he would remain a required player. Interesting to compare stats though...

For this to work he'd have to come cheap, but it would still need to be enough to get St Kilda interested.

What would you be prepared to pay? I'd start with a 2nd round pick and Warnock. He's better than Dawson.

Straight swap for one of our spuds or no deal for mine.

Would rather a bloke called Robert Campbell or Mark Jamar when Gawn stacks on 10kgs.

If people were prepared to look at Dawes as an option, here's another suggestion: http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=113&pid1=200199&year1=2011&tid2=107&pid2=2007064&year2=2011

Too late Now on the Hawkins front. I feel sure we've missed that Boat well & truly.

The beauty of having a new broom to sweep clean is exactly what this thread is all about.

Since the departure of David Neitz early in Dean Bailey's time there's been a gaping hole where the power key forwards normally play and though we have a few young blokes at the club who might fit the bill one day, they're still two or three years away from being up to the mark.

It will be interesting to see which direction the new look football department with Mark Neeld at the helm takes, but Kosi would certainly be an interesting acquisition for the club.

I suppose it depends partly on Neeld's views and partly on whether Kosi feels he needs a fresh challenge to reinvigorate his career. If the coach feels he fulfills a need and he can help achieve this, then why not?

A lot depends on the incoming St Kilda coach, but they're definitely struggling to make room in the TPP. Kosi has been touted as trade bait for some time. He definitely has his limitations, but the argument is about what attributes he possesses that we lack in general. He's more than happy to dish out punishment and crash into defenders. We have absolutely no one that can play that role at the moment with the exception of Jamar - but he's no where near Kosi in terms of contested marking. As Old said he fills a gap for a few years... that's what you'd recruit him for to allow you to have the structures you need to develop a workable game plan.

I've seen Jesse White over the last couple of years and I can't see why people rate him... According to Gerard Healy he's the laziest footballer going around. Personally I think he wouldn't offer anywhere near the physicality of Kosi and I just don't see what others see in him.

I think everyone on this thread agrees with one thing; they aren't the biggest Kosi fan. I will tell you the reason for this; it is his awareness.

I will cringe every time he goes near a contest and so will everyone else. He is a bumbling fool, and he will take out Watts, or Howe, or Jurrah- or any poor bastard who is unlucky enough to have him crip walking up to their contest. That is if he doesn't knock himself out and render himself useless by round 5.

He is a liability.

Sloonie-you've really hit the nail on the head-and made it unconscious.The guy could slash his own throat shaving .

The beauty of having a new broom to sweep clean is exactly what this thread is all about.

Since the departure of David Neitz early in Dean Bailey's time there's been a gaping hole where the power key forwards normally playand though we have a few young blokes at the club who might fit the bill one day, they're still two or three years away from being up to the mark.

It will be interesting to see which direction the new look football department with Mark Neeld at the helm takes, but Kosi would certainly be an interesting acquisition for the club.

I can remember when Kosi was playing for the Murray Bushrangers about a decade ago and the pundits were comparing him to Neita. It will be interesting and ironical if he ended up at our club.

To get him across it might cost us a Matthew Bate and possible swap of a second round draft pick.

At least Grimesy wouldn't be our 'most injured player' any more.

At least Grimesy wouldn't be our 'most injured player' any more.

Yeah more ignorant [censored] ...

In the 4 years prior to this year (13 games) he played 19, 22, 23 and 21 games.

You sure that's correct?

Surely not.

Drafted in 2007, missed most of 1st season (2008) playing a game at the end, played more in 2009 and then more again in 2010, then 13 in 2011.

So

2008: ~1

2009: ~15

2010: ~20

2011: 13

He definitely hasn't played that many seasons, atthe very least!

Oh.

Kosi, not Grimes.

Oops.

I thought he played less than 13 games this year, but "took your word for it"!

Surely not.

Drafted in 2007, missed most of 1st season (2008) playing a game at the end, played more in 2009 and then more again in 2010, then 13 in 2011.

So

2008: ~1

2009: ~15

2010: ~20

2011: 13

He definitely hasn't played that many seasons, atthe very least!

I think Old's quoting Kosi's stats and not Grimes'.

The very reason we kept Newton on the rookie list is to fill this need - that's how big it is - he was unable to do it.

I'm no Kosi-lover but he's the best option - talent, price and availability wise for a burning need. He's not a "spud" - how do you explain the fact that he averages more marks and more contested marks than Chris Dawes? He's versatil - he can ruck if necessary and he's a great kick. The main knock on him from my pov is his defensive skills - I'd like to see him lay more tackles.

http://stats.rleague...Koschitzke.html

Last year it was Leigh Brown and Q Lynch we were hoping to get.

I agree with you but if we didn't do it last year when we desperately needed to I can't imagine we'll draft a big guy this year.

...

.....

I understand your theory Nasher and agree it is a hole in our list.

Heres the issue- you want to trade in a big bloke that we know won't be part of the team come a push for a flag. So at best you want him for two years before you have to start playing the young big blokes we drafted to give them enough games and time to get used to the afl and how to play key forward.

The player we try to entice will know this.

So you want someone close to the end of their career, past their prime, who we are going to have to pay massive overs for to get them in the first place.

Anyone who thinks Warnock and a second round pick would be enough to get the deal done has rocks in their head. And the salary we will have to pay will be ridiculous compared to the output or quality of player.

The other option is to try to entice someone young enough to be a long term player but who is already good enough to hold down the position for at least two years and who actually wants to leave their club. Once again the salary we'd have to pay would be huge but more pertinent is what we would have to give up at the trade table. It would be enormous and would hamstring any chance we would then have at more high quality mids either by draft or trade.

Dawes has already said no.

Hawkins- going nowhere (and a liability until the last two weeks)

That leaves a Jessie White- he is a battler and definitely not a lock as a consistent player for the next two years. I doubt he wants to leave Sydney but even if he does we could well end up with a Carlton / Brock Maclean scenario where we paid a high price both at trade and salary only for him to wallow in the VFL.

For what is available- I honestly don't see the worth or value in going after them.

Our effort can be better focused elsewhere.

I can remember when Kosi was playing for the Murray Bushrangers about a decade ago and the pundits were comparing him to Neita. It will be interesting and ironical if he ended up at our club.

To get him across it might cost us a Matthew Bate and possible swap of a second round draft pick.

The question is though, would the Saints want to give him up ? Would they be having another crack in 2012 ?

Lenny Hayes thinks so.

Much will depend on the new coach and the direction the club want. Rather than rebuild as such, i think they will have a crack yet still try and evolve in the meantime. If that is the case, they will probably need Kosi in 2012.