Dunn had 13 possessions 7 tackles and kicked a couple surely there were worse there today?

\

How do you know ... did you go to the game?

Out - Scully (hates it at the Club) Strauss, Bate, Pettard, Martin (needs a rest)

In - Blease, Sylvia, LJ, Jamar, Jetta

Edited August 6, 201113 yr by jumbo returns

Dunn had 13 possessions 7 tackles and kicked a couple surely there were worse there today?

Dunn had 13 possessions 7 tackles 3 or 4 hit outs and kicked two goals and presented up forward and having a spell on Judd and you want him dropped?

I can think of half a dozen players who ought to be dropped before he should.

I Agree. For some on here stats are of no relevance. It's Personal! Could be the Mo?

Dunn kicked 2 goals. He did nothing else. Further, he missed every field kick he attempted.

Most importantly, he is so evidently not a part of our future. He should not be played, for the same reason Bate and Maric should not be played.

Yes, that Cook. I know, I know. But why not, seriously? The game is a virtual write-off.

Although possibly LJ instead.

No! Not anyone who is not prepared to do the defensive part of the game, like tackling bringing down their opponent,,, not touch them or tag them, bring them down.

If they won't chase to catch them, No!

If they won't work for their teammates, leadup to create space for their mates, No!

No receivers!

OUT: Tapscott, Strauss, Jones, Davey, Green

IN: Warnock, Nicholson, Sylvia, Jurrah, Maric.

What he said ^

Out: Strauss, Bate

In: Jurrah, Sylvia

Roughie ins: Blease, Mcdonald, Warnock

Roughie outs: Rivers/Garland,

I thought Garland wasn't too bad today...

I thought Garland wasn't too bad today...

agree col was ok from were I sat.

Dunn kicked 2 goals. He did nothing else. Further, he missed every field kick he attempted.

Most importantly, he is so evidently not a part of our future. He should not be played, for the same reason Bate and Maric should not be played.

You're assuming we have a future.

Seriously there are several that i would like to see given the boot and never to be played again and Maric is one he lets you down every time.

Bate tries but is just not good enough for the modern game and Bartram and Jones just aren't skilled enough at this level, neither is Moloney for that matter. Dunn can play the odd good game and is a pretty big lad so he adds a bit of strength in the forward line, not a lot of skill but a bit of size.

We are in strife at the moment we just don't have the players and we have recruited poorly, so apart from Watts Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts and McKenzie our last couple of years have been a disaster and let's remember that 3 of that 4 were very high draft picks. Howe is ok but no star, Blease is unknown Cook is light years away McDonald may be ok Davis the same Fitzpatrick is forever injured Gawn is no where near it at this stage.

It goes on and on, who is responsible? How many draft picks have we wasted?

Garland is mixing good with horrible. He needs to get his hands out in front to get a handball off and wear a bit more contact. But I wouldn't drop him yet.

I hate Bate (see him as a waste of time) and Strauss is out. Bartram served up a lot of rubbish footy. Jamar walks in if fit. Besides that I'd just pick the top 2 or 3 in the VFL.

Dropping the experience players might just lead to bigger loses.

I thought Garland wasn't too bad today...

As a roughie out for Warnock to take Lynch, Rivers-Darling, Frawley-Kennedy, Bartram-Lecras. I thought he did a quality job on Betts, who is officially overrated by a country mile in my eyes, so as a roughie out, thats what i thought.

New roughie OUT: Green, terrible all day, did jack s**t and he is the captain. That has killed him as a player, the burden is obvious. Its much like Liam Jurrah's Mark of the Year. Worst thing that could've happened to him. Hasn't been the same since.

You're assuming we have a future.

Seriously there are several that i would like to see given the boot and never to be played again and Maric is one he lets you down every time.

Bate tries but is just not good enough for the modern game and Bartram and Jones just aren't skilled enough at this level, neither is Moloney for that matter. Dunn can play the odd good game and is a pretty big lad so he adds a bit of strength in the forward line, not a lot of skill but a bit of size.

We are in strife at the moment we just don't have the players and we have recruited poorly, so apart from Watts Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts and McKenzie our last couple of years have been a disaster and let's remember that 3 of that 4 were very high draft picks. Howe is ok but no star, Blease is unknown Cook is light years away McDonald may be ok Davis the same Fitzpatrick is forever injured Gawn is no where near it at this stage.

It goes on and on, who is responsible? How many draft picks have we wasted?

This is a post to keep for the purpose of a bump in a year or two.

How many 19 and 20 year olds do you want to write off in one fowl swoop?

Strauss was certainly shownig a bit and actually getting game continuity until today's horrific injury.

Does a bloke named Bail ring any bells? Prior to injury again he was showing plenty.

There's another bloke named Grimes who is also a pretty handy player and likely future Captain.

Tell me where exactly the disaster in our drafting lies Robbie? You are very quick to howl our drafting down and predict the end of the world when it comes to our future yet you back it up with nothing.

I don't know when exactly BP took over but here's the draft picks:

2006-

Frawley, Petterd, Garland

2007-

Morton Grimes Maric McNamara

2008-

Watts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Bail

2009-

Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott, Gawn, Fitzpatrick

2010-

Cook, Howe, Davis, McDonald

How is that disasterous?

2006- No disasters there.

2007- Grimes is a gun. Morton has gone off the boil but is still very capable. Maric & McNamara are not.

2008- Watts and Bail have been very good. Strauss was finally getting some continuity. Bennell has talent but still needs to learn to find it more. Jetta is the only dud there.

2009- His first 4 picks were very good. Pick 5 has shown plenty to keep you believing we have good developing ruck stocks and Pick 6 is still unknown because of injury.

2010-

Howe has made a reasonable fist already. Cook and McDonald have both been emergencies at times. They are all big developing kids.

You cannot seriously call 2010 draftees a disaster after less than 12 months can you? So taking them out of the equation, that's 19 picks in the National Draft each year (forgetting Rookies and PSD which we have done very well from)-

Of that ONLY 2-3 picks that haven't worked out (Jetta, McNamara and probably Maric).

2 picks have been stopped by big injuries (Blease and Fitzpatrick) and are only starting to get some continuous games now.

1-2 still have plenty to offer (Morton & Bennell)

And 13 others have ranged from good to outstanding picks. 13 out of 19. That's almost a 70% success rate that doesn't include blokes who may yet still come on after injury or a poor form patch.

You are a good old fashioned pessimistic whinger Robbie with no substance to your rants...

Drafting is never a guaranteed process and not every pick will make it. But for you to say it has been disastrous shows how little you actually know.

Edited August 6, 201113 yr by Grandson of a gun

No! Not anyone who is not prepared to do the defensive part of the game, like tackling bringing down their opponent,,, not touch them or tag them, bring them down.

If they won't chase to catch them, No!

If they won't work for their teammates, leadup to create space for their mates, No!

No receivers!

Depends though. Is LJ playing tomorrow at Casey? See how he travels?

He may actually be being rested.

And let's all wait till tomorrow's game plays out before making any in's and outs predictions as a lot can happen in 2 hours of VFL footy!!!

This is a post to keep for the purpose of a bump in a year or two.

How many 19 and 20 year olds do you want to write off in one fowl swoop?

Strauss was certainly shownig a bit and actually getting game continuity until today's horrific injury.

Does a bloke named Bail ring any bells? Prior to injury again he was showing plenty.

There's another bloke named Grimes who is also a pretty handy player and likely future Captain.

Tell me where exactly the disaster in our drafting lies Robbie? You are very quick to howl our drafting down and predict the end of the world when it comes to our future yet you back it up with nothing.

I don't know when exactly BP took over but here's the draft picks:

2006-

Frawley, Petterd, Garland - Frawley great player the other two would struggle to get a game at a strong club.

2007-

Morton Grimes Maric McNamara - Morton may not be with us next year and is as soft as butter Grimes was injured before he was drafted and that's why he slipped down the list, he is continually on the sidelines. Maric will probably be delisted as will McNamara.

2008-

Watts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta, Bail - Watts Number 1 draft pick bit hard to stuff that one up will be great. Blease been injured so who knows? Bennell and Jetta are not up to it and will struggle, in fact at a club with a bit of depth they would only get a game if there were lots of injuries. Bail is a good ordinary player but no star.

2009-

Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott, Gawn, Fitzpatrick - Scully will be gone dreadful skills for a number 1 draft pick Trengove an absolute gun, once again hard to stuff up a number 2 pick Gysberts will be a good player as will Tapscott, Gawn has shown the usual big man clumsiness so it's too early to tell, Fitzpatrick was selected when he had chronic fatigue syndrome and hasn't fired a shot in two years at the club he is curently in the Casey 1's after playing last week in the Casey reserves.

2010-

Cook, Howe, Davis, McDonald - Cook is playing in the casey 2's after apparently pulling out of a couple of contests in the casey firsts, Howe is a capable footballer but certainly no star, Davis and Mcdonald haven't fired a shot so it's too early to judge.

How is that disasterous?

2006- No disasters there.

2007- Grimes is a gun. Morton has gone off the boil but is still very capable. Maric & McNamara are not.

2008- Watts and Bail have been very good. Strauss was finally getting some continuity. Bennell has talent but still needs to learn to find it more. Jetta is the only dud there.

2009- His first 4 picks were very good. Pick 5 has shown plenty to keep you believing we have good developing ruck stocks and Pick 6 is still unknown because of injury.

2010-

Howe has made a reasonable fist already. Cook and McDonald have both been emergencies at times. They are all big developing kids.

You cannot seriously call 2010 draftees a disaster after less than 12 months can you? So taking them out of the equation, that's 19 picks in the National Draft each year (forgetting Rookies and PSD which we have done very well from)-

Of that ONLY 2-3 picks that haven't worked out (Jetta, McNamara and probably Maric).

2 picks have been stopped by big injuries (Blease and Fitzpatrick) and are only starting to get some continuous games now.

1-2 still have plenty to offer (Morton & Bennell)

And 13 others have ranged from good to outstanding picks. 13 out of 19. That's almost a 70% success rate that doesn't include blokes who may yet still come on after injury or a poor form patch.

You are a good old fashioned pessimistic whinger Robbie with no substance to your rants...

Drafting is never a guaranteed process and not every pick will make it. But for you to say it has been disastrous shows how little you actually know.

I tell you what sunshine i may be pessimistic but i've every reason to and i will bump this thread in a couple of years if you don't. We have wasted some very important picks and that will mean we will have to go through it all over again.

Morton and Bennell have much to offer, I don't think so.

You know what you problem is? You suffer from the common problem of the melbourne Football Club supporter you reckon every player we draft is a gun and you believe all the [censored] that is put out by the club. We have had some very high draft picks and we have used then on some very ordinary players leaving other clubs to pick up the stars. I bet you were over the moon when we got Miller at Pick 50 and you would have thought it was Christmas when we drafted Bate and Dunn, correct?

Smith & Molan they were just the icing on your cake. We are crying out for midfielders and we draft tall skinny kids, we have triers like Jones and Moloney others have Judd and Murphy.

You haven't got a clue.

One other thing have a look at some of the teams that finished above us, not hard as most did, and see who they drafted; compare our last 4 years with some of them and you will be shocked to see that we have had no where near the best of the last 4 years.

Have a look at Sydney for an example.

Edited August 6, 201113 yr by RobbieF

ALSO*****

OUT: Green

IN: Bail (if fit) - stuff Casey, straight back to the firsts

I tell you what sunshine i may be pessimistic but i've every reason to and i will bump this thread in a couple of years if you don't. We have wasted some very important picks and that will mean we will have to go through it all over again.

Morton and Bennell have much to offer, I don't think so.

You know what you problem is? You suffer from the common problem of the melbourne Football Club supporter you reckon every player we draft is a gun and you believe all the [censored] that is put out by the club. We have had some very high draft picks and we have used then on some very ordinary players leaving other clubs to pick up the stars. I bet you were over the moon when we got Miller at Pick 50 and you would have thought it was Christmas when we drafted Bate and Dunn, correct?

Smith & Molan they were just the icing on your cake. We are crying out for midfielders and we draft tall skinny kids, we have triers like Jones and Moloney others have Judd and Murphy.

You haven't got a clue.

One other thing have a look at some of the teams that finished above us, not hard as most did, and see who they drafted; compare our last 4 years with some of them and you will be shocked to see that we have had no where near the best of the last 4 years.

Have a look at Sydney for an example.

Wow you are a pessimistic old man aren't you!

You were probably one of the fools calling Jack Watts a bust 6 months ago? Young kids take time for body to develop and game experience. Look at Frawley, you probably wanted him traded after his first 2 or 3 seasons?

I think we stuffed Morton up but not our fault as every team had him as a very highly rated player. Blease, Strauss well injuries have curtailed them.

As for teams this week I think with finals all but gone we should plan for next year. Over the last month we should try and get games into Gawn, Cook, Blease, McDonald. Even if its only a game or two but show them the benchmark before what will hopefully be a long preseason.

We also might want to bring back Morton and Maric and see if we can play them with the hope they do well and bump up their trade value.

IN: Syvia, Jurrah, Morton, Blease

Out: Strauss , Tappy (give him a week, probably going to have many concussions over his career), Bate, Bartram

Drafting is never a guaranteed process and not every pick will make it. But for you to say it has been disastrous shows how little you actually know.

Good post. Dane Swan played 30 fairly ordinary games over 4 seasons before even starting to become what he is now - in his fifth season.

But this has all been discussed ad nauseam, and some people just don't get it. If a 19 year old kid isn't tearing the house down, Prendergast must be an idiot.

As for the thread per se:

Wait and see after the Casey game, but surely with a backman or two out, either Warnock or Tom McDonald should just about have earned a guernsey. And as long as they don't mess it up, Jurrah for Bate and Sylvia for ??? Gysberts maybe?

Not great these constant changes though, we certainly need a lot at the moment, but stability must be near the top of that list. These guys need to play together ... and play together.

Wow you are a pessimistic old man aren't you!

You were probably one of the fools calling Jack Watts a bust 6 months ago? Young kids take time for body to develop and game experience. Look at Frawley, you probably wanted him traded after his first 2 or 3 seasons?

I think we stuffed Morton up but not our fault as every team had him as a very highly rated player. Blease, Strauss well injuries have curtailed them.

As for teams this week I think with finals all but gone we should plan for next year. Over the last month we should try and get games into Gawn, Cook, Blease, McDonald. Even if its only a game or two but show them the benchmark before what will hopefully be a long preseason.

We also might want to bring back Morton and Maric and see if we can play them with the hope they do well and bump up their trade value.

IN: Syvia, Jurrah, Morton, Blease

Out: Strauss , Tappy (give him a week, probably going to have many concussions over his career), Bate, Bartram

Never assume anything only fools do that; you are wrong I've always thought he would be the goods. See i don't assume anything about you.

You think?

Cook is playing with Casey two's so that's bit of a stretch. Morton and Maric; let's see haven't they been tried before, that's right and they, Maric in particular, have failed every time. Probably the best way to bump up their trade value is to not let anyone see them play.

So you want Jurrah back in; can i ask why? Has he done anything since he was dropped to show he should get back in? Oh that's right he hasn't even played yet.

I'd rather be a pessimistic old man than a stupid young one.

THE COMBINED TOTAL OF OUR LOSSES OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS IS 262 POINTS, THAT'S TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO POINTS BUT IT'S ALL OK WE'VE RECRUITED WELL AND THIS WILL CHANGE, YOU'LL SEE.

Yep, you nailed it ... we've recruited well, and have a solid, developing list, with a good balance of potential stars and blue collar grafters - all of whom are pretty shell-shocked at the moment and down on confidence. In the shorter term, perhaps the trade table looms large - a few more mature, settled heads wouldn't go astray. Otherwise known as leaders. Perhaps we should have gone for Luke ... Tapscott-I-mean -Ball after all.

But why is this being discussed on the "Changes" thread???

Yep, you nailed it ... we've recruited well, and have a solid, developing list, with a good balance of potential stars and blue collar grafters - all of whom are pretty shell-shocked at the moment and down on confidence. In the shorter term, perhaps the trade table looms large - a few more mature, settled heads wouldn't go astray. Otherwise known as leaders. Perhaps we should have gone for Luke ... Tapscott-I-mean -Ball after all.

But why is this being discussed on the "Changes" thread???

You're serious aren't you; you actually believe that garbage.

See the previous page if you want to know why it's being discussed, you know how to get to the previous page don't you?

I'll ask you like I did the other guy, have a look at some of the teams that have been finishing above us, well above us and see how many have recruited better than us, you'll find quite a few.

And as a mater of interest I was one of the ones on here that was suggesting we take Tapscott, were you?

I tell you what sunshine i may be pessimistic but i've every reason to and i will bump this thread in a couple of years if you don't. We have wasted some very important picks and that will mean we will have to go through it all over again.

Morton and Bennell have much to offer, I don't think so.

You know what you problem is? You suffer from the common problem of the melbourne Football Club supporter you reckon every player we draft is a gun and you believe all the [censored] that is put out by the club. We have had some very high draft picks and we have used then on some very ordinary players leaving other clubs to pick up the stars. I bet you were over the moon when we got Miller at Pick 50 and you would have thought it was Christmas when we drafted Bate and Dunn, correct?

Smith & Molan they were just the icing on your cake. We are crying out for midfielders and we draft tall skinny kids, we have triers like Jones and Moloney others have Judd and Murphy.

You haven't got a clue.

One other thing have a look at some of the teams that finished above us, not hard as most did, and see who they drafted; compare our last 4 years with some of them and you will be shocked to see that we have had no where near the best of the last 4 years.

Have a look at Sydney for an example.

You talk abount not assuming anything and then YOU start assuming. You are senile RF.

You still have produced nothing to support your argument. Evidence. Perhaps you're a journalist- who needs evidence when mere speculation and my warped opinion will do???

As i said. Since the rebuild started- show me the disaster in our drafting.

Your statement that we drafted talls when we needed mids clearly shows your lack of understanding. Aside from Watts and Gawn we spent two years drafting mids and mid sized players- Strauss, Blease, Scully, Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts, Bail. We clearly lacked any key forward or back depth after this so that's what we spent 2010 drafting. Where is the disaster?

Many of the same disasterous draft picks you want to wipe are the same ones who've stood up for us this year whilst the senior players have let us down. And unfortunately our 19 and 20 year olds cannot shoulder all the load to carry this team across the line.

Get your head out of your rectum RobbieF. Instead of being a keyboard hero who throws out blanket pessimism and unsupported criticism, put out arguments with some kind of factual support otherwise best you stick your hands in your pockets so you don't embarrass yourself on the keyboard any more...

No offence but that sounds a bit like Deck Chairs.

We just have a quality well balanced list. Shuffling the deck chairs is a result of poor recruiting. We should have a lot more senior players than we have to help the kids. Can I remind you of these selections from 2001 to 2008.

2001 Molan, Armstrong

2002 Bell, Nick Smith - Both gone

2003 Sylvia - treading water, McLean - gone

2004 Bate, Dunn - C Graders

2005 Jones- tries hard but turns the ball over, Buckley - with premiers

2006 Frawley, Pettard - good selection, Garland - good

2007 Morton - really struggling, Grimes - good, Maric - not up to this level

2008 Watts - VG, (Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta)- shown very little

Sylvia, Frawley, Pettard, Garland, Watts and possibly jones are probably the only players that would get a game with a top 4 team.

We have had to rely more on late selections like Bail and rookie Picks such as Aaron Davey in 2004 to offset so many poor early selections. Recruiting and player development is everything and we have not done it as well as many other clubs.

We have a poor goal to goal line. Too many light utility types and not enough hardnosed accumulaters that love the contested ball. Where are our strong bodied contested marking players down back and up forward. Zilch

It is not good enough considering the amount of early selection we have had in the last 10 years.

Out : Bate Green Strauss tappy

In : Sylvia Jurrah Bennell Warnock

We just have a quality well balanced list. Shuffling the deck chairs is a result of poor recruiting. We should have a lot more senior players than we have to help the kids. Can I remind you of these selections from 2001 to 2008.

2001 Molan, Armstrong

2002 Bell, Nick Smith - Both gone

2003 Sylvia - treading water, McLean - gone

2004 Bate, Dunn - C Graders

2005 Jones- tries hard but turns the ball over, Buckley - with premiers

2006 Frawley, Pettard - good selection, Garland - good

2007 Morton - really struggling, Grimes - good, Maric - not up to this level

2008 Watts - VG, (Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta)- shown very little

Sylvia, Frawley, Pettard, Garland, Watts and possibly jones are probably the only players that would get a game with a top 4 team.

We have had to rely more on late selections like Bail and rookie Picks such as Aaron Davey in 2004 to offset so many poor early selections. Recruiting and player development is everything and we have not done it as well as many other clubs.

We have a poor goal to goal line. Too many light utility types and not enough hardnosed accumulaters that love the contested ball. Where are our strong bodied contested marking players down back and up forward. Zilch

It is not good enough considering the amount of early selection we have had in the last 10 years.

I agree that pre 2005 we didn't draft well. That was under a different List Manager and with different philosophies in mind.

The re-build started in 2007 and i believe BP has actually done a reasonable job. Not every selected player will make it and drafting is never an exact science but BP has done reasonably well considering. And the proof still won't really come for another 5 years or so.

People love to throw around the lines that "other clubs have done so much better than us at drafting" or our selections have been poor or disgraceful.

Bring up the full drafting lists over the same period of times by other teams and then make an honest comparison instead of picking one player from each club who we should have got but missed and then saying we've been poor. I think you and others might actually find we've been pretty good.

Dunn kicked 2 goals. He did nothing else. Further, he missed every field kick he attempted.

Most importantly, he is so evidently not a part of our future. He should not be played, for the same reason Bate and Maric should not be played.

And in anotheown favouriter post you said Davey should? ZHe was very ordinsry at best and did less than Dunn, Bate or Maric (Your well known fave)in any of their games this season but you are happy for him to stay. Hmmm.

Dunn plays ok certainly nowhere near the worst. Gets bagged and you want him dropped.

Bate has an average game. Gets bagged and you want him dropped.

MARIC doesn't even play. Gets bagged by you and shouldn't be played etc etc

Davey is definitely one of the worst. Ohh he deserves another chance and needs to be played??

WTF?