Against carlton, Robinson, and others referred to MFC as playing "bruise free" footy. Now Cloke has come out with the filth plan to play through Rivers, to isolate him - link.

On both cases, its hard to argue against the plan, or the outcome.

I don't remember this happening before even once (publicly) to a club, let alone twice. And they're happy to tell everyone!!

Coaching against MFC looks pretty easy.

I can't believe how [censored] off I am.

Was there today with someone who works (or worked) at the club (wont say to protect the innocent....) Said before the bounce that we are soft. Everyone at the club and at all the other clubs know it.

Only reporting what I heard, but seems to be the tag that fits also runs deep.........

i saw this today, rivers got dragged to the goal square whoever he was playing on, having said that normally i would back him one on one and he did okay after the first half. this was a great tactic by collingwood dragging away our best reader of the play and best third man up!

They played Riv perfectly, and it is our own fault - the error was made by the FD when Warnock was not selected. Jared is good defending on the lead but one on one he is just too small and out bodied. It hurts to read that article.

Against carlton, Robinson, and others referred to MFC as playing "bruise free" footy. Now Cloke has come out with the filth plan to play through Rivers, to isolate him - link.

On both cases, its hard to argue against the plan, or the outcome.

I don't remember this happening before even once (publicly) to a club, let alone twice. And they're happy to tell everyone!!

Coaching against MFC looks pretty easy.

I can't believe how [censored] off I am.

Mitch Robinson talking about "bruise-free footy" isn't exactly a plan.

And I think that the media hype over those comments is out of touch with the reality.

And I think the pies plan was to exploit the fact our other defenders don't come across to help.

Rivers reads the play and comes across as a help-defender to assist his teammates.

When the ball is being kicked to his man, he's not coming over to help himself.

It's a one-on-one proposition.

Was privy to the Carlton pre game speech last year against the Dees and they were very focused on isolating Jared Rivers close to goal. If he went to Waite, he was to drag Rivers back to teh goal square and let everyone else clear out.

It seems to be common knowledge that is how to beat him. A bit like Nick Maxwell I reckon. We though need to be smarter about how we play Rivers. He plays well as the floating defender but against a tall marking defender he is vulnerable.

They played Riv perfectly, and it is our own fault - the error was made by the FD when Warnock was not selected. Jared is good defending on the lead

Rivers is slooww over the first 30 metres and gets torched on the lead. Isolated one out and Rivers is always going to be exposed.

And gee there are some really short memories on this forum. Warnock has been terrible 1 on 1 this year and was not a clear selection.

Lets be realistic there are not many players in the league who can beat Cloke especially if he is in form.

Having said that Rivers should have been switched much earlier - bad match up

As bad as it was we can see clearly some of our deficiencies against the top teams.

We lack a big bodied forward, we lack genuine crumbers. We lack an agile, skilled defender who can break the lines and we lack another stong bodied KPD to play on the big boys.

And obviously we lack the ability to win clearances at this time.

It's a matter for the club to figure out now whether these holes can be filled through the development of players currently on the list or whether we need to make a purchase.

Our personell just was not capable of putting consistent pressure on Collingwood, it was boys against men and they were very, very good.

Rivers should constantly switch with Frawley depending who is at half back, but he actually defended Cloke pretty well from in front in the first quarter and really only got beaten in the second by allowing Cloke room to run out the back ie. not staying goal side.

I wouldn't say he was badly out muscled.

The suggestion of bringing in Warnock is a joke.

As bad as it was we can see clearly some of our deficiencies against the top teams.

We lack a big bodied forward, we lack genuine crumbers. We lack an agile, skilled defender who can break the lines and we lack another stong bodied KPD to play on the big boys.

And obviously we lack the ability to win clearances at this time.

It's a matter for the club to figure out now whether these holes can be filled through the development of players currently on the list or whether we need to make a purchase.

Our personell just was not capable of putting consistent pressure on Collingwood, it was boys against men and they were very, very good.

Yeh, give Rivers a break. We had 40 less inside 50s! They went inside without pressure the better number if 74 times.

Warnock might have been useful, but not the answer.

Rivers needed some help!!! where were his team mates, i knew cloke was going to be a titanic headache.

He marks everything, and has fixed up a lot about his kicking action.

Rivers is not a physical match for Cloke, but he didn't give up.

The plan to isolate Rivers was helped by the 40 more Inside 50s...

And Garland will help that structure quite a bit.

The plan to isolate Rivers was helped by the 40 more Inside 50s...

And Garland will help that structure quite a bit.

One of the reasons they went inside more was because of the match up. There was no hesitation, they just belted it inside to Cloke's advantage.

I would also suggest that not having a clear target inside 50 affected out count also. Too many times we had the ball between centre and half forward without a clear target to kick to inside 50, with our indecision usualy resulting in a turnover.

We could put no pressure on thier backs or midfield and they just ran forward again in numbers without fear that we would turn them around.

Lets be realistic there are not many players in the league who can beat Cloke especially if he is in form.

Correct. Travis Cloke has the most contested marks in the comp and is the greatest challenge for any defender in the comp. He is both powerful on the lead and hard to out muscle deep. Any defender worth their weight in gold is going to struggle with the amount of ball incoming received yesterday.

Cloke & Dawes kicked 7 between them (6 and 1 respectively). 6.1 and 1.3. That is 7.4 out of their total 19.15...never mind the other 8 goal kickers !

With a 74-34 of inside50 advantage - and mind you many of our 34 were shallow entries - I dare say Cloke and Dawes should have actually done better given their plan.

Guys like Rivers - who did well at times yesterday - are on a hiding to nothing with those figures and when our midfield crumbles with not enough pressure. Both on the ground and here in the forum. Some love getting the knives out every so often, yet cannot comprehend the cause and effect.

edit:

The positives for Rivers yesterday that you will not find anywhere else but in this post:

Disposal Efficiency: 100%

1%'s - 10. Daylight second.

Rivers is slooww over the first 30 metres and gets torched on the lead. Isolated one out and Rivers is always going to be exposed.

And gee there are some really short memories on this forum. Warnock has been terrible 1 on 1 this year and was not a clear selection.

Warnock is at least a bigger body and would have made more forceful contact than Riv. He should have played anyway as clearly Frawley, Rivers and MacDonald were not enough to handle Cloke, Brown and Dawes.

Warnock is at least a bigger body and would have made more forceful contact than Riv. He should have played anyway as clearly Frawley, Rivers and MacDonald were not enough to handle Cloke, Brown and Dawes.

More forceful contact ? It's not about being forceful. Warnock.....!$%!

Clearly Frawley, Rivers and MacDonald struggled against essendon the week before.....(Ryder, Hille & Bellchambers say hi)

It's obvious that Cloke Brown & Dawes are more potent given the amount of ball penetrating inside 50.

More forceful contact ? It's not about being forceful. Warnock.....!$%!

Clearly Frawley, Rivers and MacDonald struggled against essendon the week before.....(Ryder, Hille & Bellchambers say hi)

It's obvious that Cloke Brown & Dawes are more potent given the amount of ball penetrating inside 50.

Being forceful helps because with more strength and size behind him, Warnock would have been more effective making it harder for the player in question to mark the ball!

And if you were watching Essendon (which is a stupid question, im sorry), there was only ever two of those players in the forward 50 as one had to be in the ruck, whereas Collingwood had Wood.

The amount of ball making them more effective is true, but this is about who would have been more effective in curbing one of them and I say Warnock.

Defenders veryh rarely cost you games, because if the ball gets down there, someone else has screwed up first. Our young mids were not very good yesterday, and that is why we lost - as it is every week. The midfield is where it's at, folks.

Being forceful helps because with more strength and size behind him, Warnock would have been more effective making it harder for the player in question to mark the ball!

And if you were watching Essendon (which is a stupid question, im sorry), there was only ever two of those players in the forward 50 as one had to be in the ruck, whereas Collingwood had Wood.

The amount of ball making them more effective is true, but this is about who would have been more effective in curbing one of them and I say Warnock.

Deet, in hindsight, I agree with you. We needed the extra, big body of Warnock to help counter the Collingwood gorillas. Horses for courses.

Defenders veryh rarely cost you games, because if the ball gets down there, someone else has screwed up first. Our young mids were not very good yesterday, and that is why we lost - as it is every week. The midfield is where it's at, folks.

Agreed. Hence my link in my previous post.

Cloke would have torn Warnock to pieces.

Agreed. Hence my link in my previous post.

Cloke would have torn Warnock to pieces.

Had Warnock played i think he would have gone to Dawes and Frawley to Cloke, as should have happened in the first place. Rivers would have had the best chance to shutdown Brown than any of their other forwards.

Had Warnock played i think he would have gone to Dawes and Frawley to Cloke, as should have happened in the first place. Rivers would have had the best chance to shutdown Brown than any of their other forwards.

Maybe. You inferred earlier that Warnock for Cloke was a better option than Rivers-Cloke. ^This however is a little different in perspective.

All good and well in hindsight. Leading in it was clear who is in form and who wasn't. Warnock's game against Carlton was streets behind.

It's been clear from the start that they will reward on good form. Garland wasn't quite ready and Warnock was out of sorts from his Carlton game.

At the end of the day, we were smashed where it matters, and if that crumbles, so does our structure.

Maybe. You inferred earlier that Warnock for Cloke was a better option than Rivers-Cloke. ^This however is a little different in perspective.

All good and well in hindsight. Leading in it was clear who is in form and who wasn't. Warnock's game against Carlton was streets behind.

It's been clear from the start that they will reward on good form. Garland wasn't quite ready and Warnock was out of sorts from his Carlton game.

At the end of the day, we were smashed where it matters, and if that crumbles, so does our structure.

Yeah sorry I realised that I didn't clarify that I meant Warnock for Dawes and Frawley straight onto Cloke.

I'll just be happy when Garland returns!

Rivers should constantly switch with Frawley depending who is at half back, but he actually defended Cloke pretty well from in front in the first quarter and really only got beaten in the second by allowing Cloke room to run out the back ie. not staying goal side.

I wouldn't say he was badly out muscled.

The suggestion of bringing in Warnock is a joke.

bringing in warnock for this game a joke??? pretty simple to work out he should have been recalled for this game i would have thought. They have three big units up forward and without garland we needed another tall defender. This is the way it clearly panned out, unless we won the it out of the middle they were going to stretch us. Horses for courses.