No I think the mfc list management and recruiting team are incompetent because their recent track record shows they are and until we can build a list that can win matches that is my position.

What issues do you have with our list management?

Outside 50, Dandeeman, Axis and others have perfectly summed up the situation - unlike Curry & Beer.

If Melbourne wanted to call the Suns bluff they couldn't have done a better job. Even I'm concerned we'll pass - even though I know we won't.

So, why do you assume that he wasn't coached to say what he did in the article?

Seems a little bit selective to me.

You may be right but I was thinking if they did coach him he would have said something different. And not sound so enthusiastic about punishing us!

MFC should pay alot of attention to Jimmy Toumpas.

Just so GC know who they ll be losing if they bid on Viney. Toumpas/Wines #3 and #4. Garlett at #13 and boom midfield solved.

Trade #26 and a player for Wellingham

Jones, Toumpas, Trengove, Sylvia, Wines, Wellingham, Howe, Garlett, Blease, Grimes = Premier midfield in 3 years.

Save our warchest for next year and bring over Franklin for 1.5mill a year to be with his buddy Wellingham and we will be looking good.

B - Nicholson Frawley Dunn

HBF - Watts Tmac Strauss

M - Howe Jones Grimes

HFF - Sylvia Franklin Trengove

F Blease Clarke Byrnes

RR - Jamar / Wellingham / Toumpas

Int: Garlett, Mckenzie, Gawn Int: Tapscott

I like to dream

That's ok lets pass on Jack Viney who is a gun junior player with no guarantee (although he has shown a bit) and pick up another couple of untried young players........then when they fail or get picked off by another club we can all whinge.........why not just wait and see what eventuates...4 pages of speculation and bluster fed by an article in that fine publication the Herald Sun.,..damn Barry Prendergast leaving...now poor old Tim is getting the kicking

I can understand why he is saying this. The club too often treats people like commodities and is willing to throw them to the wolves when they are no longer of value. I think that he is sick of being arsed around. Give the lad a commitment and end all the BS now.

Can we trade pick 3 to the Maggies for pick 18 which is still in the first round? And they would give us 39 for our 64.

I think I know where you're coming from here but couldn't we do better than upgrading a late pick?

If Viney gets nominated by one of the expansion clubs, lets trade our pick 3 for the best player we can get from another club (as identified by Neeld and the FD). Essentially we then pick up viney with our 2nd round pick and hopefully get at an A grader from another club as well as still having picks 4 & 13 in the first round.

I'd be shocked if this isn't the club's backup plan and what a plan it could be, depending on who we could manage to trade for pick 3 (wasn't judd snared for pick 3 and a player?).

Joe Daniher was asked this morning on SEN who was the best junior footballer he'd seen. His answer was Jack Viney. He said being around Viney had helped his development and that he'd never seen anyone before that had his fierceness, willingness and determination. He said it's amazing.

Yet some supporters would rather pass if we have to give up pick 3. Daniher has played against Whitfield, Toumpas and rucked against Grundy, yet Viney is the best junior he's seen.

Just be thankful.

He is just trying to get Sheedy or McKenna to nominate him ha ha

Don't need yet another Viney thread thanks ...

errr, this IS the Viney thread??

You may be right but I was thinking if they did coach him he would have said something different. And not sound so enthusiastic about punishing us!

That's the bit that, I thought, made it convincing.

The club has to assess the prospective players at the combine and if as a result of this assessment they believe that there are better players available for pick 3 then they are acting responsibly drafting them before JV, even if that means we miss on Jack.

No Games, just due diligence.

I like Jack and think he'll be a good player, but have to back the club to assess and select what is best for the MFC, even if that's not Jack Viney at pick 3.

That's the bit that, I thought, made it convincing.

I thought it was spot on.

I was giggling a little.

I can understand why he is saying this. The club too often treats people like commodities and is willing to throw them to the wolves when they are no longer of value. I think that he is sick of being arsed around. Give the lad a commitment and end all the BS now.

You would be the worst poker player in the world!

Who is to say that our pick 23 will not turn out better then pick 3? Obviously it would have been great to have pick 3 and use 23 on Viney but let's face it our low draft picks in recent years havnt been a raging success and I keep banging on about player development. If we do not develop these kids it doesn't matter where they are drafted. I like many get caught up in what draft picks we have because it's been the only real significant part of the MFC in recent years but tbh I'm over draft picks. I just want kids who want to play afl and give it everything they have without coasting by on junior talent. Jack Viney is worth more to us then any other club if we use pick 3 so be it he has the potential to be one of the best in the draft and one of the better players we have recruited in years.

yes but what about the extra top 10 pick we get if he goes at 23. this has nothing to do with vineys pick, its the chance of 3 top 10s versus 2 top 10s.

errr, this IS the Viney thread??

choko's post above WAS a new thread.

And choko - your facts aren't right.

OK Go all out after after Tippett with Pick 4 & the $$$$$$$$ we have. Force the Suns to cough up P2.

If they bid on Jack, we'll take Jack @ P3, & try to take Tippett @ P4. Surely we can pay more than they're offer.

I wonder if the Suns are draft tampering, trying to tell Tippett to threaten to go into the Pre Season Draft & force the Suns trade offer down to they're 2nd Pick.

This is not a threat and it is not some play by the boy on behalf of the club.

It is a determined kid answering a question.

And he wouldn't be back, and he would make us pay, and we won't let that happen.

I don't know where this is going but I do think that this posturing by GC and GWS is them attempting to angle for a freebie.

And we should give it to them.

Get Pick 3 involved in the MD and help GC get Tippett.

I cannot believe this, amateur hour again at the MFC! Obviously the correct response would be to say that he understands we have to go with the best pick available, and that hopefully he can one day make it to the MFC. That would cast some doubt into GWS/GC and maybe scare them out of screwing us over. He has gone and done the complete opposite, in effect gauranteeing the Suns will now nominate him and we lose what might have been a 'free' top 3 player. Isn't anyone at the club, including his father, smart enough to work out what to tell the kid to say in the media? Nice start to your career Jack, you've just cost us pick 3 with utter stupidity... and what kind of way is that to talk about the club anyway, who does he think he is? Now we can look forward to the player taken at pick 5 becoming another NicNat to our Watts. Idiots every single one of them.

Of course maybe Jack Viney is a confident 18 year old kid who voices his own opinions.

if GWS or GC nominate Viney, why not offer pick 3 to Adelaide for Tippett (assuming we want him and he is willing to play for us) or whatever other A grader we can manage to trade pick 3 for with any other club in the AFL. Then we can simply use our pick 26 to get Viney.

Edit: can someone clarify if this is within the rules of trading/drafting (i.e. trading away your first pick after nominating F/S) seems like it must not be possible.

wish i could fast forward to monday!

I agree with your sentiments but Harrington is one of the reasons we have pick 3 in this draft. Appalling list management and recruiting. He seems to want to use Scully as an excuse for our list being years behind where it should be...truck load of good Scully would have been with his tiny frame and terrible kicking.

I disagree. Harrington was recruited from North to 'regularise' our player payments and he has done that. We don't overpay players any more.

Please provide specific examples of list managment errors made under his watch.

if GWS or GC nominate Viney, why not offer pick 3 to Adelaide for Tippett (assuming we want him and he is willing to play for us) or whatever other A grader we can manage to trade pick 3 for with any other club in the AFL. Then we can simply use our pick 26 to get Viney.

Edit: can someone clarify if this is within the rules of trading/drafting (i.e. trading away your first pick after nominating F/S) seems like it must not be possible.

Father Son bidding is done before trade period starts. No dice.

One thing we have done fairly well at in the last few years is managing the list.

None of the delistings or trades have backfired.

What specific list management decisions of Harrington do you disagree with?

Recruiting is another story altogether..

You're right. I don't know exactly where Harrington's power lies and a lot of it can be blamed on Prendergast and Bailey's recruiting philosophy of gentlemen that were lovely kicks. But a List Manager has a lot of input into recruiting so decisions such as Cook over Atley are shockers. The gaping holes we have in our list (skilful half back, quality outside mids, gorilla forwards and small forwards), and the fact we've been on the bottom of the ladder for 6 years would indicate that our List Management has been poor. Morton and Davey being contracted for next year is an example of a terrible list management decision. Not sure who made the decision to hold onto Moloney last year when Essendon offered a 2nd round pick but I'd have thought a List Manager has a fair bit of input into that as well. And don't start me on a 28 year old lumbering ruckman being signed for 3 years when we are about to go to two subs....

The good news is that Neeld knows this which was why Harrington was moved this year into an 'Opposition Analyst/Free Agency' role. A 12 year old boy with a computer could go through opposition lists and highlight the ones that are 193cm plus...

Father Son bidding is done before trade period starts. No dice.

bugger, thought it was too good to be true, otherwise every club with a F/S would do it. Thanks for clearing it up. I guess we use pick 3 on viney then

We signed Viney on contract because Adelaide were trying to get him via the mini-draft last year. He was eligible and we convinced him to come to us, so he signed a contract.

GC and GWS don't really get much for nominating Viney - just elevate their 2nd round picks one spot higher in the draft. The risk that they take is that they end up with Viney instead of another player that they have their eyes on. For such a small reward, it's hardly worth them nominating Viney if there is any risk at all that they may get him - provided that they don't rate him at 1 or 2.

With Viney saying that he will make Melbourne regret not picking him, he is telling GC and GWS that there is a real risk that he will play for them.

If there is a risk, then the reward is not great enough for them nominate him ....... unless they rate him as the best or second best player in the draft (which, however, is a real possibility).

The risk of us not taking him are slim, but the reward for GC and GWS is very small.

The alternative is to play the game some are advocating. That is to get Viney to come out and tell GC and GWS that he doesn't want to go there and will walk out on them after 2 years. Something that transparent just tells them that the risk of us not selecting Viney is zero.

I'd love to play poker against some of the panic merchants on here.

Very well put. JV has effectively not just put the GCS and GWS on notice but also the other clubs ranked 5-10 in the draft. It was reported that only one club had interviewed JV. It will be interesting now if some of the other clubs have a chat with him given his comments and in turn when GCS/GWS see this, may cause a re-think.

I already had a hunch you were a good poker player.

It comes down to this guy:

Profile: Really damaging player with some versatility. Can take over and influence games as well as just about anyone in this draft and throughout the u18 champs for bursts really imposed himself on games which was impressive. Skill level excellent by both hand and foot, has that combination of hurt factor and clean ball use that will make him a big time weapon. Consistently good decision maker. High level athlete and has that combination of explosive speed and agility that will make him desirable as well as in game work rate. Endurance excellent. Also has shown very early on that he can lift for the big games which is I strongly believe is something that he will take with him to AFL level. Can play as a midfielder, forward or back which is a big advantage but long term will no doubt develop into a midfielder. Has the ability to play both as an inside and outside midfielder.

Or this guy:

Really competitive and hard inside midfield. Could have joined an AFL club as a 17 year old and been a regular. Not a big fella, but purely and simply he is the hardest player I’ve seen coming through the system and his attack on the ball, attack on the man and aggression on the field is without equal and the big reason why he is such a dominant player already. Wins all the hard, contested ball and as a 17 year old was doing better than most of the 18 year olds who got drafted early, so Melbourne will get very lucky to have young Jack who I’m sure will very quickly become a Mark Neeld favourite. Tackling is excellent. Is a real leader out on the field and is someone who really leads by his actions and hardness at the footy. Potential culture changer and sure to be a member of the leadership group soon enough. Really high character guy and hard worker who will put time into his game until he becomes elite. Jack has very clean hands and uses it well by hand consistently. Big time accumulator. Left foot kick, can use his right. Kicking is generally very good and can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft. Speed is good and can break away from packs, also athletically I like his agility and side step, has some evasiveness and can burst off in another direction at pace. The big strength athletically is his endurance which without seeing any of his testing I suspect would be very, very good because he has such a high work rate.

What we do imho. We ll need to decide on either 1 or the other..