Cook was the one who supposedly looked like he was crying.

Nothing to do with Beamer.

Beamer was on the grassy knoll spitting at Davis.

As for this thread, it's even too early for Captain Hindsight to make a call.

  On 05/04/2011 at 13:54, hardtack said:

Agree, which is why I don't discuss it.

Of course you don't...

  On 05/04/2011 at 14:13, nutbean said:

I don't think you get it. We turn up our noses at Fev and say what a cancer he is on his clubs. There are hundred of footballers in the draft - there was a large question mark over Darlings attitude and "history". Why would you take a risk with a footballer who may or may not turn out to be trouble at your club. I would rather work on "potential" ability than an attitude that has "potential" to be reigned in. If ability fails to reach potential - you have wasted a pick . If attitude cannot be reigned in - damage to the club and its players.

For every Barry Hall story of a football who can be reigned in there is a Fevola/Aker story of players who can harm your club. Even born again Cousins caused untold damage at the eagles.

Darling - comes with priors - move on - nothing to see here

No, I do get it. Both ways are a risk. Both ways are a potential wasted pick.

But it's risk versus reward. And to make a blanket judgement on a kid because he has "priors" is a tad simplistic and, to my mind, more than a bit precious.

What exactly were Darling's offences anyway? He got kicked out of a private school for having a sex romp at school camp and got into a stoush outside a nightclub.

Blow me down ... Chuck him in jail and throw away the key!

  On 05/04/2011 at 11:08, Stylus said:

Well maybe you and all the other experts on here can become AFL recruiters, because apparently none of them have any idea.

I'm not saying he is useless or may not turn out a decent player, but I get tired of hindsight forum experts taking pot shots at our recruiters. We could draft Jesus Christ and half of this forum would prefer player X because they may show attribute Y in their first few games.

Maybe, God forbid, we dont have a good rerruiting panel

We have shown a distinct preference for soft bodiied devloping athletic types with accompanying nice good boy natures

AT draft time plenty on this site wanted Darling

No hindsight there

Wake up please we have not drafted well

I'm of the opinion that two different incidents, from the same training, have been linked.

Cook is the better "project player". Face facts, we are a "project team" and have the time to wait. This team is not going anywhere fast.

Cook could be a 200+ gamer that takes the oppositions best backman. That would allow an emerging Watts to take over and set up play, and more importantly allow Liam Jurrah to wreak havoc in the forwardline.

Darling is a ripper, but I think the bigger body of Cook gives us another option.

  On 05/04/2011 at 13:36, Mallee Bull said:

I remember reading that, your 100% correct that it was Cook, not Davis. It was an observation made by a fan that wasn't certain he was crying, he said it appeared he was. Can't believe we're talking about this to be honest. People at least waited until Watts played a game before they started saying we should have taken someone else....poor Cooky hasn't even debuted and he's being deemed a mistake because Darling has played 2 solid games against North Melbourne and Port (2 very average sides). Not trying to belittle Darling, just trying to add some perspective.

I'm 100% certain that it was Davis not Cook

Davis tackled Beamer a bit hard. Beamer got annoyed and then a moment later spat. People went crazy because they had thought Beamer had spat at Davis. It was a storm in a teacup, and was blown massively out of proportion.

Same training session Cook was off the ground and looked like he possibly could be crying because he had his head in his hands.

From Bhima's training report:

"Unfortunately Cook left the field half-way through the session, and although I was 100 meters away, he seemed pretty distressed and could have been in tears."

100 metres away! Judge Judy says case dismissed.

  On 05/04/2011 at 20:04, Range Rover said:

No, I do get it. Both ways are a risk. Both ways are a potential wasted pick.

But it's risk versus reward. And to make a blanket judgement on a kid because he has "priors" is a tad simplistic and, to my mind, more than a bit precious.

What exactly were Darling's offences anyway? He got kicked out of a private school for having a sex romp at school camp and got into a stoush outside a nightclub.

Blow me down ... Chuck him in jail and throw away the key!

I am all for blanket judgement.

Clubs recruiters not only look at talent on the field but also do psychological work ups on players. It is no surprise he slipped so far down the draft. The clubs have been doing this for years. I recall as far back as TJ's drafting a Hawthorn official i know said there was giant knock on TJ's attitude and they were quite happy to pick up Croad (wasnt much better really !)

All I am saying ( and most clubs by their decision to ignore this talent) is clubs do not want to take a risk with players of suspect attitude. There is a giant different in the risks. A miss on playing ability affects the player and a waste of a pick. A miss on attitude has the potential to affect others in the club and worst case scenario, the fabric of the group.

  On 05/04/2011 at 10:03, RobbieF said:

Midfielders and big bodied forwards win games but as I said in another post 3 of our last 4 first selections have been beanpole talls.

Dunn and Bate are 191cm(ish) forwards.....Buddy and Roughhead on the weekend showed the importance of a true tall forward particularly one that can take a packmark. Darling will be a good player but we were not the only side that had queries. How anyone can even start questioning a first round 18 year old KPP 1 round into the VFL season is astounding.

Lost in this stupidity is the fact Darling had been in an altercation outside a club, leaving him in a short coma and with a fractured skull.

While he seemed to be recovering ok from that, there were reports of ongoing migraines, whether true or not, and it would have caused further caution in his case.

Darling said he was fine, but it wouldn't be the first time a kid had lied about their physical state together drafted (*cough* Mitch Thorp).

It's not like he'd say "yeah, look, it's my dream and I've mucked around at school because I knew I'd slip straight into a well-paid AFL career, but now I'm getting bad headaches and I'm not sure I'm the prospect I once was... maybe give me a look in at a later stage of the draft?"

Regardless of priors, whether they made the All Aust team as a junior, or anything. The fact is that our recruiters saw more in Lucas Cook than they did in Jack Darling. The fact that Darling has played well in 2 games could be good - if the recruiters got it right, how good will Cook be?

On the otherhand, they may have got it wrong. One thing is for sure, noone in here can honestly stand up and say that they have got it wrong in this selection...yet. Re-open this thred in 5 years, then we will know. Until then, this thread should be locked.

  On 05/04/2011 at 11:11, Mr Morton said:

I am not entering the debate about Darling or Cook, but just pointing out what you said.

It is the effectiveness of the player and the role he plays, not the height. A few centimeters means nothing if he can't use that to his advantage.

I agree I was just stating that he isn't that big and in 4 or 5 years Cook will weigh 102kg and be 196 tall.

I must say, i've watched Darling's first two games and I'm a little envious. I think he would slot in PERFECTLY at the demons and be ready to go straight away. He's also a different type of player to anything that we have, and his forward pressure is excellent which is something we're missing.

Then again, I know I must be patient.

We are going to be genuine finals threats only from 2012 onwards. We are probably only going to be premiership threats from 2014 onwards. By that time, Watts and Cook will have had time to grow into their bodies, and we'll be happy that we went the long term option.

In the 2006 National draft. Collingwood drafted Ben Reid (pick 8), Nathan Brown (pick 10) and Chris Dawes (pick 28). Those 3 guys only really had their 'breakout' seasons in 2010. Basically it took them 3 full seasons (2007-9) of development before they were ready to hold Key Positions. In 2010 grand final, Brown played FB, Reid played CHB and Dawes played FF. It is also worth noting that our very own Frawley, drafted in 2006, took until 2010 to have his break out season.

It is fair to say that unless you're dealing with a complete freak, you can only expect young KPPs to really take-hold of a Key Position in their 4th season of footy.

Now a look at our 2 white hopes for Key Position Forwards. We took Watts in the 2008 draft and Cook in the 2010 draft. Considering Watts spent his first year in year 12, we can only realistically expect a huge break-out season from 2013, while Cook should break-out by 2014.

If we make the grand-final in 2014, there is absolutely no reason why Watts and Cook can't be ready to play as important a role in the team as Brown, Reid or Dawes did for Collingwood.

If you think about it, they should peak at exactly the right time the team will be peaking

  On 06/04/2011 at 00:30, sylvinator said:

I must say, i've watched Darling's first two games and I'm a little envious. I think he would slot in PERFECTLY at the demons and be ready to go straight away. He's also a different type of player to anything that we have, and his forward pressure is excellent which is something we're missing.

Then again, I know I must be patient.

We are going to be genuine finals threats only from 2012 onwards. We are probably only going to be premiership threats from 2014 onwards. By that time, Watts and Cook will have had time to grow into their bodies, and we'll be happy that we went the long term option.

In the 2006 National draft. Collingwood drafted Ben Reid (pick 8), Nathan Brown (pick 10) and Chris Dawes (pick 28). Those 3 guys only really had their 'breakout' seasons in 2010. Basically it took them 3 full seasons (2007-9) of development before they were ready to hold Key Positions. In 2010 grand final, Brown played FB, Reid played CHB and Dawes played FF. It is also worth noting that our very own Frawley, drafted in 2006, took until 2010 to have his break out season.

It is fair to say that unless you're dealing with a complete freak, you can only expect young KPPs to really take-hold of a Key Position in their 4th season of footy.

Now a look at our 2 white hopes for Key Position Forwards. We took Watts in the 2008 draft and Cook in the 2010 draft. Considering Watts spent his first year in year 12, we can only realistically expect a huge break-out season from 2013, while Cook should break-out by 2014.

If we make the grand-final in 2014, there is absolutely no reason why Watts and Cook can't be ready to play as important a role in the team as Brown, Reid or Dawes did for Collingwood.

If you think about it, they should peak at exactly the right time the team will be peaking

Very well said!

  On 05/04/2011 at 14:32, Deestroy All said:

Cook was the one who supposedly looked like he was crying.

Nothing to do with Beamer.

Beamer was on the grassy knoll spitting at Davis.

As for this thread, it's even too early for Captain Hindsight to make a call.

Best post in this thread.

Hindsight is always 20 - 20....

Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda, but didnt....

Keep in mind Darling has already missed an Eagles game though club suspension due to an indisgression, so it remains to be seen if he's mended his ways. I think it was the second round of the NAB Cup.

  On 06/04/2011 at 01:26, DemonDave said:

Keep in mind Darling has already missed an Eagles game though club suspension due to an indisgression, so it remains to be seen if he's mended his ways. I think it was the second round of the NAB Cup.

He was 30 seconds late for training.

They've clearly got him on a very tight leash, which is what he needs. Looks to be working.

  On 05/04/2011 at 20:20, jackaub said:

Maybe, God forbid, we dont have a good rerruiting panel

We have shown a distinct preference for soft bodiied devloping athletic types with accompanying nice good boy natures

AT draft time plenty on this site wanted Darling

No hindsight there

Wake up please we have not drafted well

Fantastic. You are even more delusional than others.

Even the people in this thread saying we made a mistake have not gone so far as to suggest we have a bad recruiting department. Every club makes recruitment blunders. At the same time, every club has recruitment miracles. But you can not logically state that our last draft was a blunder, given none of them have played a game.

So tell me jackaub, what of the other clubs who overlooked Darling? Are you suggesting every club has bad recruiters? Or maybe just the clubs whose draft picks have not yet played? They too must have terrible recruiters because their draft picks have not played and Darling has showed something in his first two games?

You are the only one who needs to wake up.

I always wanted to draft him....

Check this out

  On 05/04/2011 at 23:22, e25 said:

Lost in this stupidity is the fact Darling had been in an altercation outside a club, leaving him in a short coma and with a fractured skull.

While he seemed to be recovering ok from that, there were reports of ongoing migraines, whether true or not, and it would have caused further caution in his case.

Darling said he was fine, but it wouldn't be the first time a kid had lied about their physical state together drafted (*cough* Mitch Thorp).

It's not like he'd say "yeah, look, it's my dream and I've mucked around at school because I knew I'd slip straight into a well-paid AFL career, but now I'm getting bad headaches and I'm not sure I'm the prospect I once was... maybe give me a look in at a later stage of the draft?"

100% correct E.

  On 06/04/2011 at 00:12, billy2803 said:

Regardless of priors, whether they made the All Aust team as a junior, or anything. The fact is that our recruiters saw more in Lucas Cook than they did in Jack Darling. The fact that Darling has played well in 2 games could be good - if the recruiters got it right, how good will Cook be?

On the otherhand, they may have got it wrong. One thing is for sure, noone in here can honestly stand up and say that they have got it wrong in this selection...yet. Re-open this thred in 5 years, then we will know. Until then, this thread should be locked.

...furthermore, Darling has already begun filling out his frame yet Cook hasn't even come close to filling out yet.

  On 06/04/2011 at 00:30, sylvinator said:

Then again, I know I must be patient.

We are going to be genuine finals threats only from 2012 onwards. We are probably only going to be premiership threats from 2014 onwards. By that time, Watts and Cook will have had time to grow into their bodies, and we'll be happy that we went the long term option.

In the 2006 National draft. Collingwood drafted Ben Reid (pick 8), Nathan Brown (pick 10) and Chris Dawes (pick 28). Those 3 guys only really had their 'breakout' seasons in 2010. Basically it took them 3 full seasons (2007-9) of development before they were ready to hold Key Positions. In 2010 grand final, Brown played FB, Reid played CHB and Dawes played FF. It is also worth noting that our very own Frawley, drafted in 2006, took until 2010 to have his break out season.

It is fair to say that unless you're dealing with a complete freak, you can only expect young KPPs to really take-hold of a Key Position in their 4th season of footy.

Now a look at our 2 white hopes for Key Position Forwards. We took Watts in the 2008 draft and Cook in the 2010 draft. Considering Watts spent his first year in year 12, we can only realistically expect a huge break-out season from 2013, while Cook should break-out by 2014.

If we make the grand-final in 2014, there is absolutely no reason why Watts and Cook can't be ready to play as important a role in the team as Brown, Reid or Dawes did for Collingwood.

If you think about it, they should peak at exactly the right time the team will be peaking

Yet time and time again, supporters of every club and especially a few here on Demonland fail to understand this and expect these kids to tear the competition a new one from day 1. Dawes used to frustrate the hell out of Collingwood supporters. For 3 years i heard about how he was a waste of talent and size. The BOOM.

It's amazing what can happen with a little patience and faith that those who are charged with building our club up are actually doing their job properly...and not flip flopping every 5 minutes like the uninformed.

  On 06/04/2011 at 03:57, Stylus said:

Fantastic. You are even more delusional than others.

Even the people in this thread saying we made a mistake have not gone so far as to suggest we have a bad recruiting department. Every club makes recruitment blunders. At the same time, every club has recruitment miracles. But you can not logically state that our last draft was a blunder, given none of them have played a game.

So tell me jackaub, what of the other clubs who overlooked Darling? Are you suggesting every club has bad recruiters? Or maybe just the clubs whose draft picks have not yet played? They too must have terrible recruiters because their draft picks have not played and Darling has showed something in his first two games?

You are the only one who needs to wake up.

Well said.

Frankly, we need to do a direct swap of the whole of West Coast's list for ours.

We got that useless spud go-nowhere Watts when they got the impending superstar Naitanui.

Blease can't even get a game and look at that Shuey kid - Rising star!

Strauss, clearly no good and has nothing to offer, imagine how much better we'd be if we had Tom Swift.

And Lucas Cook? Where was he on sunday? Did he even get a stat? He's got nothing on Darling, that's for sure.

At least we have the excuse that they had the higher pick when they got Masten and we were left with hack boy Morton.

Frankly, we can't even beat them at draft scrabble - put Strijk on double word score and he beats our last three drafts on his own.

Ok, I'm done. Can you be too?

  On 06/04/2011 at 09:43, Little Goffy said:

Ok, I'm done. Can you be too?

Nice

  On 05/04/2011 at 21:21, 45HG16 said:

I'm of the opinion that two different incidents, from the same training, have been linked.

Nice work; if the source for RobbieF's assertion about Cook's character was that training report - and it seems that it was - it is very clear that Cook's distress had nothing whatsoever to do with a spat with Moloney.

What did have Cook 'looking down' is anyone's guess; it could certainly have been some sort of injury/illness, given he was with the trainers and received some sort of medication.

That was gold Little Goffy...

  On 06/04/2011 at 09:43, Little Goffy said:

Frankly, we need to do a direct swap of the whole of West Coast's list for ours.

We got that useless spud go-nowhere Watts when they got the impending superstar Naitanui.

Blease can't even get a game and look at that Shuey kid - Rising star!

Strauss, clearly no good and has nothing to offer, imagine how much better we'd be if we had Tom Swift.

And Lucas Cook? Where was he on sunday? Did he even get a stat? He's got nothing on Darling, that's for sure.

At least we have the excuse that they had the higher pick when they got Masten and we were left with hack boy Morton.

Frankly, we can't even beat them at draft scrabble - put Strijk on double word score and he beats our last three drafts on his own.

Ok, I'm done. Can you be too?

Well said Little Goffy

There is a culture of softness in the club not limited to the playing group(IMO)