Scully and Grimes certainly have some problems with disposal. They are still young and learning and I suspect there is a lot of effort going into getting them to pass. Bruce flunked out long ago.

There is no way on Earth Cameron Bruce's kicking is better than Jack Grimes'. Other than that, you're spot on.

Lindsay Gilbee from the 'dogs was talking on SEN this morning. He is starting up a kicking school for youngsters.

He was asked who is the best kick in the AFL?

He said that Nathan Buckley was the best kick he's seen.

Of the current crop he picked Nick Malceski, and one other (I think it was joel selwwod),

but he also made a special mention of Jack Grimes.

you don't know anything about the inner life of the football club, none of you do. I tell you what he is a better kick than Tom Scully and Jack Grimes but nobody would ever suggest that is justification for either of them being dropped/delisted. There are several players who get regular games who are as soft as s--t but you don't hear about that either. The only things I've ever heard about Bruce is that he is the ultimate professional, and is highly respected at the club, and now he and Green are the only ones left who are over 27. I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated, but it amazes me that some body could finish in the top10 of the B+F ten years running, 5 times in the top5, WIN IT 2 YEARS AGO and make it again THIS YEAR and people still reckon he serves no purpose. How can anyone justify that?

He's not being dropped or delisted. He's not accepting what the club thinks he is worth. The club that's trying to put and hold together a team that'll win you and I a flag.

I'd back both Scully and Grimes to kick a goal on the run any day over Bruce. Scully has an excellent technique that'll eventually be rock solid.

Both Scully and Grimes were harder in their first year than Bruce has ever been. Both are excellent handballers, one of the most basic skills, one that Bruce never mastered.

I think the people that have no faith in Morton are the ones most in fear of losing Brucey. I have faith in Morton, I believe he'll do what Bruce does and take it up a couple of levels, the sooner he gets that full responsibility the better IMO. So do me a favour Brucey...

Scully and Grimes certainly have some problems with disposal. They are still young and learning...

Agree. But at sub 25 games experience each, can they be forgiven?? Yes.

Got to hand it to Bruce, if nothing else he certainly polarises people lol. The truly sad thing is he's now realized despite hid huffing that neither he nor others are as important as dome might think . He rolled the dice... Boxman ain't moving !!!

Agree. But at sub 25 games experience each, can they be forgiven?? Yes.

Yes

Got to hand it to Bruce, if nothing else he certainly polarises people lol. The truly sad thing is he's now realized despite hid huffing that neither he nor others are as important as dome might think . He rolled the dice... Boxman ain't moving !!!

You have really got it in for Cam Bruce haven't you BB. I personally hope he does sign up for the 1 year, and works his absolute ring off on the training track.

And yes i hope his kicking improves next season, but do not forget he is a 10 year player who can play forward or back-and i am sure he has a lot of experience to pass on to our raw future champions.

If Cam does not play for us we will miss him in defence, although i do not want the club to back down on the offer. 1 year is fair.

But i do not possess the same venom as you. Each to their own.

I think Grimes' disposal issues might be more about concentration than anything else. The kicks he fluffs are generally the ones where he's under no pressure. From memory they're not often the longer kicks, so it might be something technical re: kicking through the ball or whatever though.

You have really got it in for Cam Bruce haven't you BB. I personally hope he does sign up for the 1 year, and works his absolute ring off on the training track.

And yes i hope his kicking improves next season, but do not forget he is a 10 year player who can play forward or back-and i am sure he has a lot of experience to pass on to our raw future champions.

If Cam does not play for us we will miss him in defence, although i do not want the club to back down on the offer. 1 year is fair.

But i do not possess the same venom as you. Each to their own.

If we had heard something positive in the last few week the venom would not be there.

If we had heard something positive in the last few week the venom would not be there.

He aint due for work until monday, and we really have no idea what has been said behind the office doors.

If Cam Bruce doesn't re-sign we don't play finals next year.

We still need some older heads in the side to help win us critical games in August.

2 points

1. Bruce seems to be being a little over indulgent here wanting more money, considering he's been one of the best paid players at the club for many years, perhaps paid above his market value for up to 5 years. The club has been very good to him money-wise, surely that counts for something.

2. The club seems to be being a little stubborn, and appears to be trying to stand their ground bc of principle, rather than for any pragmatic reason. The reality is that half of Bruce's salary will be outside the cap. That means that even if Bruce gets another huge salary (around 500k for example), only $250K would go towards the cap, which is what mediocre players will be on.

I hope the two parties can come to a common ground.

Bruce still has 2 (maybe 3) really good years of footy left in him. He's super consistent, always in the top 10 in our B&F, and has been Vice-Captain for a few years, meaning his leadership will be important for a young group coming through.

I assume that like the rest of us you have no idea about what money/conditions are actually being negoiciated, so how do you know that "Bruce seems to be being a little over indulgent" if you have no idea what he is asking for?

If Cam Bruce doesn't re-sign we don't play finals next year.

We still need some older heads in the side to help win us critical games in August.

If we're relying on Cam Bruce to win us matches in August, we won't be playing finals regardless.

If we're relying on Cam Bruce to win us matches in August, we won't be playing finals regardless.

Do you think the younger players we now have playing in the back half with Bruce consider him to be an assett because of his experience or a liability because of his disposal?

If we're relying on Cam Bruce to win us matches in August, we won't be playing finals regardless.

Cam knows where the door is - if he wants to leave, so be it. Plenty of younger players ready to take the next step up. u can't sat that!!

People on here have short memories.

Last time Bruce's contract came up for renewal his manager Ricky Nixon jumped up and down, spread rumours about going to other clubs to the media and like the stubborn bastard he is, he dragged it out as long as he could to make sure he could get the best possible deal for his client (and himself).

Then after that happened Bruce signed and came out and said that he never had any intentions of ever going to another club and that he wanted to be a one club player.

Same thing is happening right now.

no doubt in the daniher era we saw certain players getting an 'armchair ride' with regard to contracts and whether or not they deserved to be getting a game. we also held onto blokes too long including the young ones who were never going to make it. This played a big part in our ultimate capitulation to the point we started 2008 with two 100 point beltings! It was also not far off the death of the club in reality. So with that in mind I agree it is great to see them sticking to their guns, HOWEVER each case is different and whatever negatives are associated with keeping him at the club are outweighed by the positive impacts having him there. MOst importantly it is about winning more, that is priority one, we MUST impress and advance further this year on the ladder.

DA: You can't just equate the inclusion of Bruce in the 22 as an exclusion of Morton. That's like saying they are both vying for the 22nd spot.. if both earn their place they will be in the same 22. I don't think I need to mention that Bruce has just come in 6th in the B+F while Cale struggled to crack a game even after getting a rocket and coming back, he went out again. If you were trying to win a game of footy tomorrow you would be picking Bruce ahead of Morton every time as the footy dept. obviously are. Now, that's got nothing to do with the player that Morton might (probably) become, but he doesn't have anything to do with Bruce. for one thing Morton is considered a potential key position player, he has no real relationship to whether or not Bruce is on the field. Bruce will be a better option than whoever player 22 is which means more wins. That is the priority.

kk Friday time for a drink!

no doubt in the daniher era we saw certain players getting an 'armchair ride' with regard to contracts and whether or not they deserved to be getting a game. we also held onto blokes too long including the young ones who were never going to make it. This played a big part in our ultimate capitulation to the point we started 2008 with two 100 point beltings! It was also not far off the death of the club in reality. So with that in mind I agree it is great to see them sticking to their guns, HOWEVER each case is different and whatever negatives are associated with keeping him at the club are outweighed by the positive impacts having him there. MOst importantly it is about winning more, that is priority one, we MUST impress and advance further this year on the ladder.

DA: You can't just equate the inclusion of Bruce in the 22 as an exclusion of Morton. That's like saying they are both vying for the 22nd spot.. if both earn their place they will be in the same 22. I don't think I need to mention that Bruce has just come in 6th in the B+F while Cale struggled to crack a game even after getting a rocket and coming back, he went out again. If you were trying to win a game of footy tomorrow you would be picking Bruce ahead of Morton every time as the footy dept. obviously are. Now, that's got nothing to do with the player that Morton might (probably) become, but he doesn't have anything to do with Bruce. for one thing Morton is considered a potential key position player, he has no real relationship to whether or not Bruce is on the field. Bruce will be a better option than whoever player 22 is which means more wins. That is the priority.

kk Friday time for a drink!

DA was saying that Morton can adequately replace Bruce. I agree.

But that isn't the point. He MFC is trying to win a flag and that tilt doesn't involve giving a 31 year old who won't play in a flag anything more than he deserves.

And Morton will be a ute, and I doubt he will be played in a key position. We have those positions covered for the future anyway...

As someone said earlier there's not a lot of love for Cam Bruce and I don't know why, he's been a very good player for us over the years and still has plenty to give so hopefully he'll sign up and play another couple of years. All players have faults and all players make mistakes in games, but every kick he has is put under the microscope and if it misses the target he gets caned.

I remember having a discussion with a poster on this thread about Daniel Ward after he suggested that most of Ward's kicks went to the opposition in a particular game; I suggested that he look at the replay and maybe he would change his opinion. Well he did and he did, Ward got 30 possessions in the game and the first 15 I counted went directly to an MGC player but the perception was he always kicked it to the opposition. Perception is a funny thing and if the same thing is repeated often enough, it must be true.

DA was saying that Morton can adequately replace Bruce. I agree.

But that isn't the point. He MFC is trying to win a flag and that tilt doesn't involve giving a 31 year old who won't play in a flag anything more than he deserves.

And Morton will be a ute, and I doubt he will be played in a key position. We have those positions covered for the future anyway...

Who's to say we won't be playing for a flag next year?

DA was saying that Morton can adequately replace Bruce. I agree.

But that isn't the point. He MFC is trying to win a flag and that tilt doesn't involve giving a 31 year old who won't play in a flag anything more than he deserves.

And Morton will be a ute, and I doubt he will be played in a key position. We have those positions covered for the future anyway...

He definitely could though.. with his recent weight gain he must be right around the height and weight of year-older Frawley, who is a brilliant, genuine KP. The best Key pos backman we have had in a very long time. we ahve seen Morton take same great overhead contested grabs, I can definitely see him becoming a KP. The backline is almost set (though you never know what can happen) but imagine a 3-prong Morton/Jurrah./Watts forwardline that is absolutely unstoppable when these blokes are 25-ish, especially with the service of the unstoppable midfield we nearly certain to have going. Yes!

It's not better than Tom Scully's either.

I like scully but his kicking has a long way to go Bruce probably is a better kick

If we don't select Bruce, and he thus doesn't take a vet spot, can we then 'nominate' a rookie come round 1?

Newton's keen!

As someone said earlier there's not a lot of love for Cam Bruce and I don't know why, he's been a very good player for us over the years and still has plenty to give so hopefully he'll sign up and play another couple of years. All players have faults and all players make mistakes in games, but every kick he has is put under the microscope and if it misses the target he gets caned.

I remember having a discussion with a poster on this thread about Daniel Ward after he suggested that most of Ward's kicks went to the opposition in a particular game; I suggested that he look at the replay and maybe he would change his opinion. Well he did and he did, Ward got 30 possessions in the game and the first 15 I counted went directly to an MGC player but the perception was he always kicked it to the opposition. Perception is a funny thing and if the same thing is repeated often enough, it must be true.

Are you saying he wasn't a bit of a turnover merchant? I reckon there was probably a bit of selective bias when it came to that game, but if Ward had better disposal he would have played more games when he was on the list, and he probably would have had a longer AFL career. He was pretty quick and could certainly find the footy.

Who's to say we won't be playing for a flag next year?

Do you think we will be playing for a flag next year?

I think we might make finals. but if we do we'll be making up the numbers anyway.

Are you saying he wasn't a bit of a turnover merchant? I reckon there was probably a bit of selective bias when it came to that game, but if Ward had better disposal he would have played more games when he was on the list, and he probably would have had a longer AFL career. He was pretty quick and could certainly find the footy.

Do you think we will be playing for a flag next year?

I think we might make finals. but if we do we'll be making up the numbers anyway.

What I'm saying is there is a certain "lemming" effect on this board (and Demonlogy), all you need are a couple of "vocal" posters criticising a player for poor disposal and the next thing you know it becomes an accepted fact. I'm not suggesting that Cam Bruce hasn't turned the ball over, he has, but he does a lot of really good work in between, all I'm saying is that they all turn it over but some of the whipping boys get criticised for it and some of the poster boys can do no wrong. Daniel Ward had other issues and that's why he was delisted he simply wasn't good enough but his disposal was no where near as bad as some would have you believe.

At the start of the year I doubt that anyone would have thought that Collingwood would win the flag so comprehensively and yet they did, I can't see why we can't win one, there are a few on the slide we have a good draw and we will have a much better preparation than last year. We had the walking wounded this time last year and we had some very good kids, on limited preparation playing their first year.

We could very well do a baby Demons and go all the way.

If we're relying on Cam Bruce to win us matches in August, we won't be playing finals regardless.

Rubbish.

You rely on 22 players, and by extension 30-40 players to get to finals. Bruce would be among the most important as one of only a few genuine experienced heads.

Plus, these days injury has as much of a say in a team's results as any factor in a single season, and Bruce has shown that he's very resilient.

Typical Bruce hating demonland tripe... Y_M started it on a whim, and it never quite got stamped out.