Is there a ready made Hale type out there..in other comps?

[The Chazz 4,077]

Well sinclair is one I like the look of.

And according to JCB you could have a look at Orren Stephenson, Nth Ballarat

And yeah, I don't think any of the current players fit the immed requirements for Fwd/2ndRuck

The Big O is not a suitable option. I have watched a number of his games for many years, and while a great VFL player, would struggle with consistency in the AFL.

Wasn't it PJ that the Casey coach commented about a few times during the year about being at a higher level than the VFL? I can't recall, think it was, but may be wrong. Orren is suited at VFL level.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Im not au fait with where or when Bailey suggest ed a FF was last resort, am happy to be educated. A FF is not there to work in isolation. His presence augments our structure and defines the roles of oppositions ( defensively ) . without a decent one, one who offers an acknowledged contest you are handing your opposition a huge advantage.

Strangely enough the most effective place to kick goals from is within 25 m of the posts within an arc 45 deg either side...Now pop quiz time..who in an AFL side might occupy such a locale ?

We dont even know atm if PJ will still be on our list in 5 days time. I am indeed offering up an alternative..actually ..this whole thread is exactly about that.. Its player X ..who or where is he ? Hes distinctly not on our list at present otherwise again..wed already have him allocated there. MFC is looking...im just asking..or offering the idea that he may not be at many people first thoughts regarding exisiting abode. Geelongs answer was right under its nose all but. We may have to look a bit more laterally..we might

[sylvinator 96]

Fair points, I seriously disagree, but your opinion is fine.

Reality is, we have minimal chance of picking someone in the draft that can have an immediate impact in that position, we may fluke someone in the PSD, but again, it's doubtful, I think we are clutching at straws hoping to find our saviour in one of the secondary leagues, therefore, the only realistic option is to look at our options;

Spencer = NAFFA (Not a full forwards a$$hole)

Gawn = will be lucky to play senior footy at all this year

Fitzy = unknown, may provide it, doubtful for early 2011, may sneak in for a handful of games in the 2nd half

Newton = NAFA (similar to Spencer, but is Not A Footballer's A$$hole)

Sylvia/Dunn = Are not swing rucks

Martin = My man, but not from round 1. Missed a lot of footy in 2010. I have been calling for him to play this position for over 12 months, but needs to show form first.

Johnson = Our only legitimate option from round 1. Sook all you like about his ability, but unless you would rather see Jamar at full forward and Spencer in the ruck, you're gunna dry your eyes because we got nothing else.

spot on

[The Chazz 4,077]

spot on

Thanks Sylv, I'm glad someone else in here understands. Sadly, it means you and I know jack about football, or we do know a lot and there are a hell of a lot that don't!

[The Chazz 4,077]

Im not au fait with where or when Bailey suggest ed a FF was last resort, am happy to be educated. A FF is not there to work in isolation. His presence augments our structure and defines the roles of oppositions ( defensively ) . without a decent one, one who offers an acknowledged contest you are handing your opposition a huge advantage.

Strangely enough the most effective place to kick goals from is within 25 m of the posts within an arc 45 deg either side...Now pop quiz time..who in an AFL side might occupy such a locale ?

We dont even know atm if PJ will still be on our list in 5 days time. I am indeed offering up an alternative..actually ..this whole thread is exactly about that.. Its player X ..who or where is he ? Hes distinctly not on our list at present otherwise again..wed already have him allocated there. MFC is looking...im just asking..or offering the idea that he may not be at many people first thoughts regarding exisiting abode. Geelongs answer was right under its nose all but. We may have to look a bit more laterally..we might

Ok, so the main aim of our full forward is to take the number 1 defender. Now, isn't that what the coaching staff are trying to do? Gett he number 1 defenders away from Jurrah and Watts? Regardless of if the full forward kicks a goal, he has already achieved one of his KPI's. So, after 5 or 6 weeks of minimal goals returned from our full forward, will the opposition sides think "bugger it, this bloke hasn't kicked any goals, let's put our 2nd or 3rd defender on him". Jackpot, even PJ will outmark such defenders more often than not. One thing about him, his kicking for goal is very good.

I love playing games, so thanks for introducing this pop quiz. Approx 25 metres our within a 45 deg arc on both sides is the most effective place to kick goals from. Cool, now, in the Travis Cloke thread you thought Melbourne should strongle consider him if he were available. Well, in answer to your little quiz, I would think Cloke, Collingwood's Full Forward, was a liability in that "locale". I'm sure you will argue that Cloke is a CHF, but you were implying that he would be that Full Forward that we need.

Now, a little pop quiz for you. Take a look at the top 10 leading goal scorers of 2010. How many are designated full forwards? I'll do it for you - 1. J Reiwoldt, 2. B Hall, 3. L Franklin, 6. M Pavlich, 9. J Roughead, 10. J Brown. That means, 4 of the top 10 were smaller forwards, including our very own Brad Green. So, 60% of the leading goal kickers were Big Full Forwards, but guess what, there aint no Hall, Reiwoldt, Franklin, etc available. In summary, Brad Green is our key forward, without being a full forward. Adding a big body down there will not change that, and again, regardless of who it is, my expectation would be for the Full Forward to kick around 30 goals for the year. PJ can do that, and if you don't believe it, pull your head out of your a$$.

You are right, PJ may not be on our list in 5 days, but there's more chance he will be than us picking up Sinclair in the draft. Differnce between mine and your arguement, currently, PJ is on our list, currently, we have no alternative. IF in 5 days he is still there, and IF after the draft we got someone like Sinclair, then I will hold my judgement until I've seen a couple of practice matches.

Lastly, I think you are a long, long way off the mark if you think J-Pod is Geelong's answer, with 2011 being a massive year for the man. He is competing with Hawkins, Mooney and Ottens for 3 spots - Number 1 ruck, Full Forward and Centre Half Forward. Unless Geelong decide to play a spare ruck on the bench, which I hope they do, but it's doubtful, that means the Full Forward or CHF will have to play 2nd ruck. Mooney used to be able to do it, they wouldn't do it to him now. Hawkins has had 12 months as a developing number 2 ruck, Ottens is a given, so that leaves 1 man, J-Pod. Guess what, he struggles int he ruck, so he may well find it difficult to hold his spot.

The FD couldn't give a toss what you think the definition of our Full Forward is. While you are correct in some regards about what a Full Forward should do, you have absolutely no idea if this is what the FD is wanting him to do. To be quite honest, I think you are a fair way off the mark with your expectations, going by what some at the Club have said.

[beelzebub 23,376]

If you suggest PJ is our only legitimate option...and in that Im using PJ as the yardstick then youre seriously wrong. Bate is far more effective than PJ...just cant hold any consistency or apply enough defensive pressure.

[The Chazz 4,077]

If you suggest PJ is our only legitimate option...and in that Im using PJ as the yardstick then youre seriously wrong. Bate is far more effective than PJ...just cant hold any consistency or apply enough defensive pressure.

Can Bate play 2nd ruck?

Next.

[beelzebub 23,376]

can PJ play 1st FF ??

[rpfc 28,432]

To be fair Billy - you were arguing he is our only option AND that he is a good option.

He is not suitable but I agree that he may be around in Rd 1, 2011.

Pick 32 should be where we target a 21-25 year old FP/ruck from the state leagues. If that is Sinclair so be it, but there must be a prospect out there worth more of a punt than PJ. We have flogged that dead horse ad finitum.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Can Bate play 2nd ruck?

Next.

In a non-traditional full forward role that I belive the Club are hoping for, YES.

[The Chazz 4,077]

To be fair Billy - you were arguing he is our only option AND that he is a good option.

He is not suitable but I agree that he may be around in Rd 1, 2011.

Pick 32 should be where we target a 21-25 year old FP/ruck from the state leagues. If that is Sinclair so be it, but there must be a prospect out there worth more of a punt than PJ. We have flogged that dead horse ad finitum.

Ok, RPFC, I will sit and wait until after the drafts, and if we haven't picked up that 21-25 year old FF/ruck from the state leagues, we will have this discussion again.

Is PJ a great option - NO

Is PJ our only option - YES

Therefore, I'm one supporter that will give this guy a go in that role, so YES, he is a good option.

Until he has played 10+ straight games in this role, I can't understand how anyone can say he is a bad choice.

[daisycutter 29,616]

To be fair Billy - you were arguing he is our only option AND that he is a good option.

He is not suitable but I agree that he may be around in Rd 1, 2011.

Pick 32 should be where we target a 21-25 year old FP/ruck from the state leagues. If that is Sinclair so be it, but there must be a prospect out there worth more of a punt than PJ. We have flogged that dead horse ad finitum.

that summarises it

Edited October 13, 2010 by daisycutter

[beelzebub 23,376]

Is PJ a great option ..NO

is PJ our only option NO

Does the nominated FF HAVE to pinch hit the ruck ?? No...be nice.. but not absolute.. Would have happened had HAle been landed. he wasnt we revise options.

Careful when you try to make arguments particularly definitive. I see where youre going but disagree with your premises

[The Chazz 4,077]

Is PJ a great option ..NO

is PJ our only option NO

Does the nominated FF HAVE to pinch hit the ruck ?? No...be nice.. but not absolute.. Would have happened had HAle been landed. he wasnt we revise options.

Careful when you try to make arguments particularly definitive. I see where youre going but disagree with your premises

Thanks pops.

So, if you beleive the full forward doesn't have to pinch hit in the ruck, who will we turn to should Jamar require a spell?

[beelzebub 23,376]

Thanks pops.

So, if you beleive the full forward doesn't have to pinch hit in the ruck, who will we turn to should Jamar require a spell?

shove it.. dont need an icon for that sunny jim

The FF can ruck if hes able..but doesnt need to be able to in order to be a FF. Many other teams manage but it will be interesting to see how it all evolves within teh new rotation / subs rulings.

It was our perfect fit solution... Rest Jamar up forward.. use FF to relief ruck. That utilises 2 players..

if we augment and introduce shuffling of positions and such we can utilise someone else to relieve Jamar. its not optimum..and thats why we need to keep looking

[daisycutter 29,616]

Thanks pops.

So, if you beleive the full forward doesn't have to pinch hit in the ruck, who will we turn to should Jamar require a spell?

Lets put it another way . . . .

PJ would be the least worst option

(then Newton (ugh) if we re-rookie him, then Martin (and pray he lifts))

[The Chazz 4,077]

shove it.. dont need an icon for that sunny jim

The FF can ruck if hes able..but doesnt need to be able to in order to be a FF. Many other teams manage but it will be interesting to see how it all evolves within teh new rotation / subs rulings.

It was our perfect fit solution... Rest Jamar up forward.. use FF to relief ruck. That utilises 2 players..

if we augment and introduce shuffling of positions and such we can utilise someone else to relieve Jamar. its not optimum..and thats why we need to keep looking

It's typical of you B59 - you're happy to argue the opinion of others, but when they start throwing questions back at you about your comments, you don't answer them.

Would Worsfold expect his biggest forward to kick most of their goals or take strong overhead marks? NO, because his leading goal kicker is a 182cm forward/crumber called LeCras.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Lets put it another way . . . .

PJ would be the least worst option

(then Newton (ugh) if we re-rookie him, then Martin (and pray he lifts))

Perfectly put!

Are we now all in favour of this comment???!!!

[jayceebee31 761]

Another tall that might be considered as a tall key forward whom can ruck a little is Adam Pattison recently delisted from St Kilda.He started his foorball career at Richmond playing CHF then progressed through desperation into the ruck.The desperation from Richmond was caused because they had no other at the time to play ruck. At 24, 197/8 cm tall,body already developed at 96/7 kls and played 66 games,I feel he is not far behind Hale as a possibility.No doubt after not getting Hale and Bails stating we need an experienced tall down forward this maybe a worthwhile punt for a 1 year contract.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Permit me to throw a spanner in the works

Assuming we can't find a likely option in the draft . . .

could we try Warnock as a big deep forward, pinch hitting in the ruck??

would it be worth an experiment for a few weeks??

[ducking]

[dee-luded 2,959]

Another tall that might be considered as a tall key forward whom can ruck a little is Adam Pattison recently delisted from St Kilda.He started his foorball career at Richmond playing CHF then progressed through desperation into the ruck.The desperation from Richmond was caused because they had no other at the time to play ruck. At 24, 197/8 cm tall,body already developed at 96/7 kls and played 66 games,I feel he is not far behind Hale as a possibility.No doubt after not getting Hale and Bails stating we need an experienced tall down forward this maybe a worthwhile punt for a 1 year contract.

What about a rookie spot JCb31?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Permit me to throw a spanner in the works

Assuming we can't find a likely option in the draft . . .

could we try Warnock as a big deep forward, pinch hitting in the ruck??

would it be worth an experiment for a few weeks??

[ducking]

Not tall enough, I think they're looking for that ultra tallforward we can bomb long to,,,, or go the 60 - 65 Mtr Torp.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Not tall enough, I think they're looking for that ultra tallforward we can bomb long to,,,, or go the 60 - 65 Mtr Torp.

Well 194cm is getting up there and he's got some bulk. Many other KPF would be around that height

Remember what we are looking for is not the focal point or key goalkicker, but someone to provide some structure, protect the young uns, at least provide a contest for the crumbers, and take out a key back tall.

Anyway we are talking a hypothetical situation where PJ is the alternative

[redman 28]

No thank you - Jonathan Giles might be the man

Giles sounds like a good prospect - Adelaide recruiting manager Matt Rendell says Giles is the best ruckman outside of the AFL.

And it doesn't look like Gold Coast pre-listed him.\

Kicked 21 goals for the year and with 4 being his highest.

[jayceebee31 761]

What about a rookie spot JCb31?

A chance along with Murphy, a first-round selection in the 2003 draft, kicked 50 goals from 48 games in his seven seasons but, despite solid performances in the WAFL, he could never find the consistency required at the top level just been delisted from Fremantle.Comes from Gippsland-.193 cms tall-25 yrs old,92 kls- The key forward has played six seasons but is yet to reach 50 games. Played five consecutive games early in 2009 before suffering a finger injury that required surgery later in the year. Displayed fine form in the WAFL. Has undoubted talent and, at his best, is a strong mark with a huge leap.

Our FD will either flick Newton and go with one of these or keep him IMO.