Cameron Schwab ustream

[Guest ThemOldRedlegs]

I'm FULLY aware of that, doh

I just said that he didn't make any reference to any influence from demonland

The possibility of the MFC letters on the jumper was obvious to anyone who had an early peek at the emblem

that clearer for you

Daisy...do you understand the meaning of the word 'possibly'?

I said he possibly (although mispelt) saw the designs posted here on Demonland.

the guy reads these forums and has followed the advice re the Emblem from ideas on this form and on Demonology, so do you really think it is a wild assumption that the club would look at the opinion of its supporters made on forums such as this? Geeez outlandish assumption on my part i guess.

He didn't make any reference to the Emblem ideas that were floated around on 'ology last year, but guess what? they look a hell of a lot like the ideas and reflect the opinions of posters on that site.

The possibility of the MFC letters on the jumper was obvious to anyone who had an early peek at the emblem

I am afraid this makes your point no clearer. Not sure what your gripe is.

BTW why would he make any reference to those jumpers on Demonland. Then the club would be liable to pay the dsigner royalties. Even if the idea had influenced the eventual design. Your arguements are very perculiar

Edited September 10, 2010 by ThemOldRedlegs

[old dee 23,787]

Still can't understand why it's necessary to have a clash jumper that has white in it. Things worked nicely for more than 100 years without them at all (nearly 115 in the case of Collingwood and Essendon).

And how on earth did the AFL allow a new franchise in the GCS to have a predominantly red jumper when there are already enough in the competition with that colour?

I suppose GWS will have a blue and white guernsey?

Hi "Jack" Not sure why I am making this post but here goes!

From my discussions with MFC people earlier in the year they said that that the AFL

Want all clash / Away jumpers to be a basis white Jumper with minor club additions.

Hence this years jumper with red and blue trimmings.

I again asked the same person this morning and nothing has changed.

We can fiddle with the trimmings but basic white remains.

There is no compromise from the AFL that is the requirement.

Their long term plan is to have all clubs with this same basic design.

i.e. white jumper with club trimmings!

A couple of clubs are hold outs however the AFL will get their way in the long term.

It is a subject that the MFC sees as a no win situation.

I was told when we have $5 million in the bank and have won the last two premierships

we might have some bargaining power.

Until then forget it "we need the AFL more than they need us".

We all just need to suck it in and get on with winning a flag because that is all that matters.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Daisy...do you understand the meaning of the word 'possibly'?

I said he possibly (although mispelt) saw the designs posted here on Demonland.

the guy reads these forums and has followed the advice re the Emblem from ideas on this form and on Demonology, so do you really think it is a wild assumption that the club would look at the opinion of its supporters made on forums such as this? Geeez outlandish assumption on my part i guess.

He didn't make any reference to the Emblem ideas that were floated around on 'ology last year, but guess what? they look a hell of a lot like the ideas and reflect the opinions of posters on that site.

I am afraid this makes your point no clearer. Not sure what your gripe is.

BTW why would he make any reference to those jumpers on Demonland. Then the club would be liable to pay the dsigner royalties. Even if the idea had influenced the eventual design. Your arguements are very perculiar

I responded to your "By the sounds of things" comment (yeah, I see that can have different meanings)

Didn't mean to gripe, sorry about that, just meant to clarify that he didn't verbally make any references

Guess we'll all have to wait and see on final 2011 clash design

FWIW, my money would be on the "MFC" lettering with maybe also a small new-demon logo somewhere . . . but who knows

(I'm still against white, but if we have to have it lets make it the best possible design)

Edited September 10, 2010 by daisycutter

[daisycutter 29,613]

Hi "Jack" Not sure why I am making this post but here goes!

From my discussions with MFC people earlier in the year they said that that the AFL

Want all clash / Away jumpers to be a basis white Jumper with minor club additions.

Hence this years jumper with red and blue trimmings.

I again asked the same person this morning and nothing has changed.

We can fiddle with the trimmings but basic white remains.

There is no compromise from the AFL that is the requirement.

Their long term plan is to have all clubs with this same basic design.

i.e. white jumper with club trimmings!

A couple of clubs are hold outs however the AFL will get their way in the long term.

It is a subject that the MFC sees as a no win situation.

I was told when we have $5 million in the bank and have won the last two premierships

we might have some bargaining power.

Until then forget it "we need the AFL more than they need us".

We all just need to suck it in and get on with winning a flag because that is all that matters.

With all due respect old dee, I think most of us more vocal critics do understand all the above

We know its not something that will change in the short-term

We don't believe that it must necessarily be like that for all time

It will be a long battle, but we're up to it

The red and the blue forever

[jayceebee31 760]

Still can't understand why it's necessary to have a clash jumper that has white in it. Things worked nicely for more than 100 years without them at all (nearly 115 in the case of Collingwood and Essendon).

And how on earth did the AFL allow a new franchise in the GCS to have a predominantly red jumper when there are already enough in the competition with that colour?

I suppose GWS will have a blue and white guernsey?

Totally agree- why couldn't we have a near all red or near all blue?

We are not the Bulldogs with 3 colours.We are the RED & the BLUE-Demons for God sake..

[Hobbits's 17]

Totally agree- why couldn't we have a near all red or near all blue?

We are not the Bulldogs with 3 colours.We are the RED & the BLUE-Demons for God sake..

times have changed. and they have for some time already.

[Red Sox 2]

Totally agree- why couldn't we have a near all red or near all blue?

We are not the Bulldogs with 3 colours.We are the RED & the BLUE-Demons for God sake..

times have changed. and they have for some time already.

Times have changed is a pretty weak and flippant response to the argument that we are being forced to not only wear an alternative strip, but receive specifics from the AFL as to what the primary color is.

There would be no AFL if it weren't for the MFC. The clubs should have rights to this.

[old dee 23,787]

Times have changed is a pretty weak and flippant response to the argument that we are being forced to not only wear an alternative strip, but receive specifics from the AFL as to what the primary color is.

There would be no AFL if it weren't for the MFC. The clubs should have rights to this.

I am struggling with what you do not understand.

The TV industry wants one team to play in a predominately white strip.

The TV industry provides the majority of the money that make the wheels go round.

The AFl wants the money to continue and increase.

As a result they will give the TV industry the majority of what they want,

Almost anything to keep the money flowing especially now we have two new costly teams in QLD and NSW.

Re your comment On the AFL not existing without the MFC.

That has not been the case for at least the last 40 years I think you are grossly over stating our strenght in the scheme of things.

The AFL would struggle without Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Adelaide, West Coast and Sydney.

It would go on quite well without the MFC, I love the Dees as much as anyone else on this site

however we do not matter that much.

[old dee 23,787]

With all due respect old dee, I think most of us more vocal critics do understand all the above

We know its not something that will change in the short-term

We don't believe that it must necessarily be like that for all time

It will be a long battle, but we're up to it

The red and the blue forever

Daisycutter for what my advise is worth fight a battle you have a small chance of winning.

You are wasting valuable energy on this one.

Our Club has conceeded, you can complain here until you are as old as me ( I hope not )

nothing will change.

Carn the Dees

[daisycutter 29,613]

Daisycutter for what my advise is worth fight a battle you have a small chance of winning.

You are wasting valuable energy on this one.

Our Club has conceeded, you can complain here until you are as old as me ( I hope not )

nothing will change.

Carn the Dees

"until you are as old as me" - how do you know i'm not already?

"a battle you have a small chance of winning" - all the more challenging!

"You are wasting valuable energy" - thanks for considering my energy valuable, but I have enough spare

We can agree to disagree, eh

BTW you probably think its an obsession with me. It's not. I just don't have to agree or "accept" something I don't like nor agree with the reasons for.

All the best, DC

[Red Sox 2]

I am struggling with what you do not understand.

The TV industry wants one team to play in a predominately white strip.

The TV industry provides the majority of the money that make the wheels go round.

The AFl wants the money to continue and increase.

As a result they will give the TV industry the majority of what they want,

Almost anything to keep the money flowing especially now we have two new costly teams in QLD and NSW.

Re your comment On the AFL not existing without the MFC.

That has not been the case for at least the last 40 years I think you are grossly over stating our strenght in the scheme of things.

The AFL would struggle without Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Adelaide, West Coast and Sydney.

It would go on quite well without the MFC, I love the Dees as much as anyone else on this site

however we do not matter that much.

Old dee. Where have I applied a question here? What are you struggling with that I might not understand? Please explain as all I did was respond to one comment as to why we are wearing a white clash strip.

Times have changed is far from the reasoning I require.

Mate, I am aware that you are being pragmatic here and call me one eyed, but I say The Melbourne Footballl Club matters a hell of a lot.

You were looking ok with the point on teams that would leave the AFL struggling until you added St Kilda into that group? And you reckon the dees don't matter?

[old dee 23,787]

"until you are as old as me" - how do you know i'm not already?

"a battle you have a small chance of winning" - all the more challenging!

"You are wasting valuable energy" - thanks for considering my energy valuable, but I have enough spare

We can agree to disagree, eh

BTW you probably think its an obsession with me. It's not. I just don't have to agree or "accept" something I don't like nor agree with the reasons for.

All the best, DC

Good point I do not know how old you are! lets just say I was there in 64, seems a long time ago unfortunately!

It is your energy to burn.

obsessions are not always a waste of energy, I have one too it is the MFC and trying to make sure the Dees are around when I am not.

If by some chance you win this one I will be at the front of the queue cheering, just do not see it happening.

Edited September 10, 2010 by old dee

[old dee 23,787]

Old dee. Where have I applied a question here? What are you struggling with that I might not understand? Please explain as all I did was respond to one comment as to why we are wearing a white clash strip.

Times have changed is far from the reasoning I require.

Mate, I am aware that you are being pragmatic here and call me one eyed, but I say The Melbourne Footballl Club matters a hell of a lot.

You were looking ok with the point on teams that would leave the AFL struggling until you added St Kilda into that group? And you reckon the dees don't matter?

Sorry Demon Hill I have attached my comments to the wrong person.

Re the Saints, you maybe right.

I think that over the last ten years a lot of Melbourne supports have just assumed the MFC would always exist

in spite of the fact we were $5 million in debt.

During 2007 I thought we were destined to become the "Western Sydney Demons" and I still think that was a big possibility as far as the AFL was concerned.

Fortunately a guy called Jim Stynes came along and dragged a hell of a lot of MFC supporters into the real world.

If not for him and the movement he helped create I truely Believe that is were we would have been in 2011.

Believe me the MFC has been part of my life for a long time and will I hope be for a lot more years.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

I am struggling with what you do not understand.

The TV industry wants one team to play in a predominately white strip.

The TV industry provides the majority of the money that make the wheels go round.

The AFl wants the money to continue and increase.

As a result they will give the TV industry the majority of what they want,

Almost anything to keep the money flowing especially now we have two new costly teams in QLD and NSW.

Re your comment On the AFL not existing without the MFC.

That has not been the case for at least the last 40 years I think you are grossly over stating our strenght in the scheme of things.

The AFL would struggle without Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, St Kilda, Adelaide, West Coast and Sydney.

It would go on quite well without the MFC, I love the Dees as much as anyone else on this site

however we do not matter that much.

I work in Television & i can assure you with the right cameras & Lenses that old arguement is a crock of....

I will continue to fight for the Red & Blue Colours of this club until i die, And i will not Roll over for the AFL or any TV Network

The white Jumper looks Crap because it is Crap. It is designed (Quietly) to maximise the Home Team advantage thus increase the Home Ground Revenue.

We must keep fighting for our Jumper

Do Clash Jumpers get worn in September??? NO. There is your Answer, Its not for Clash purposes and it aint about TV Coverage. It is all about Home Revenue Maximization during the 22 Rounds.

[daisycutter 29,613]

If by some chance you win this one I will be at the front of the queue cheering, just do not see it happening.

Old Dee, if it is won it won't be me. There are many 1000's of fans not just from MFC but many clubs who keep demonstrating their dislike and bewilderment. Regimes come and go, opinions can change. The fact that all teams away strips will look substantially the same (especially from a distance or someone with poor eyesight on tv) eventually (as you point out) will be the ultimate socialisation and homogenisation of the game and people won't like it.

Anyway, enough of my babbling (wheres WYL when you need him) Edit: Oops, spoke too soon

Edited September 10, 2010 by daisycutter

[Red Sox 2]

I work in Television & i can assure you with the right cameras & Lenses that old arguement is a crock of....

I will continue to fight for the Red & Blue Colours of this club until i die, And i will not Roll over for the AFL or any TV Network

The white Jumper looks Crap because it is Crap. It is designed (Quietly) to maximise the Home Team advantage thus increase the Home Ground Revenue.

We must keep fighting for our Jumper

Do Clash Jumpers get worn in September??? NO. There is your Answer, Its not for Clash purposes and it aint about TV Coverage. It is all about Home Revenue Maximization during the 22 Rounds.

I was waiting for you to jump in on this WYL.

Love your passion for the red & blue jumper!

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

I was waiting for you to jump in on this WYL.

Love your passion for the red & blue jumper!

Cheers This is not a joke.

The AFL are bringing in 2 new teams that will have RED & Blue in them....WHY???

Just so we get to wear a White clash strip for a "Legitimate" reason

But until we win some flags and fill our MCG regularly with Demon supporters the AFL will pull Rank.

BUT NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, and we will win this fight.

[Guest hangon007]

Times have changed is a pretty weak and flippant response to the argument that we are being forced to not only wear an alternative strip, but receive specifics from the AFL as to what the primary color is.

There would be no AFL if it weren't for the MFC. The clubs should have rights to this.

Think your first comment was right "times have changed"

Some would argue ... There would be no MFC if it weren't for the AFL.

So as long as AD is the boss ... suppose "sadly" we will just have to just grin & bare it. No good arguing better expending our energies elsewhere.

Edited September 10, 2010 by hangon007

[old dee 23,787]

Cheers This is not a joke.

The AFL are bringing in 2 new teams that will have RED & Blue in them....WHY???

Just so we get to wear a White clash strip for a "Legitimate" reason

But until we win some flags and fill our MCG regularly with Demon supporters the AFL will pull Rank.

BUT NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, and we will win this fight.

Perhaps my eye sight is worse than I thought.I remember that the GWS is Red and yellow.

I will now have to go and look!

Have not seen anything suggesting GWS is red and Blue Have I missed it?

Now please do not get upset WYL but a think you are being little bit paranoid!

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Perhaps my eye sight is worse than I thought.I remember that the GWS is Red and yellow.

I will now have to go and look!

Have not seen anything suggesting GWS is red and Blue Have I missed it?

Now please do not get upset WYL but a think you are being little bit paranoid!

I didn't say both Teams will be Red & Blue.

Gold Coast have Red in their Jumper

And Last i heard GWS will have some Blue in theirs.

[daisycutter 29,613]

I work in Television & i can assure you with the right cameras & Lenses that old arguement is a crock of....

I will continue to fight for the Red & Blue Colours of this club until i die, And i will not Roll over for the AFL or any TV Network

The white Jumper looks Crap because it is Crap. It is designed (Quietly) to maximise the Home Team advantage thus increase the Home Ground Revenue.

We must keep fighting for our Jumper

Do Clash Jumpers get worn in September??? NO. There is your Answer, Its not for Clash purposes and it aint about TV Coverage. It is all about Home Revenue Maximization during the 22 Rounds.

Welcome back WYL - good points

I just dont get this "it is enforced by the TV networks" argument - why?

FCS, look at the changes in TV broadcasting

• Color TVs
  
• High Definition Digital (still improving)
  
• 50" + monster screens
  
• PVRs with one button live replay/pause/zoom etc
  
• One touch recording
  
• 3D TV sports broadcasting coming
  
• Internet TV with all the tricks this provides
  
• Improved Digital Cameras
  
• Cable TV with pick your camera view options
  
• etc, etc
  
• Plus all this will only get better
  

I would say that TV (now) provides for better viewing (ie less clash) than being at the ground

[old dee 23,787]

PS WYL there is a little light blue in the GWS jumper.

However it is predominately red/ orange jumper with Yellow and Light blue.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Welcome back WYL - good points

I just dont get this "it is enforced by the TV networks" argument - why?

FCS, look at the changes in TV broadcasting

• Color TVs
  
• High Definition Digital (still improving)
  
• 50" + monster screens
  
• PVRs with one button live replay/pause/zoom etc
  
• One touch recording
  
• 3D TV sports broadcasting coming
  
• Internet TV with all the tricks this provides
  
• Improved Digital Cameras
  
• Cable TV with pick your camera view options
  
• etc, etc
  
• Plus all this will only get better
  

I would say that TV (now) provides for better viewing (ie less clash) than being at the ground

You are Spot On DC. pictures have NEVER looks Sharper or more Clearer, and we rarely get Mud anymore like the good old days.

If somebody cannot see the difference between two Teams Jumpers on a HD Flat Screen (soon to Be 3 D) then they are Blind & it is not the fault of the Football club Jumpers.

As i said. Clash Jumpers are NOT worn in September, which i would have thought is the most important Part.

No the AFL make all their coin during the 22 H & A rounds make no mistake and they will maximize Ground revenues for this reason B)

[old dee 23,787]

Gee I am realy glad I raised this subject!

There are a lot of you out there with missonary zeal when the white jumper gets mentioned.

Must watch who's car I step in front of in the future.

Actually like to be around when we salute next time.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

PS WYL there is a little light blue in the GWS jumper.

However it is predominately red/ orange jumper with Yellow and Light blue.

Red & Light Blue will mean we are deemed to Clash old dee, Just you wait.

Thanks for the update, i only care about Melbourne so news on our enemies i usually gather a little later!!