The List Management Thread

[e25 5]

Contrary to what I've posted in other threads, the OP has made it clear to me my stance.

Delist: Bell, Miller, Johnson.

Elevate: McKenzie, Spencer.

That would mean only using our 1st round pick. I'm comfortable with that.

If Junior decides to retire, then we get a 2nd round pick which is a bit late this year.

I don't think there will be much value left by the 3rd round.

In reference to rookie list, I'd drop Meesen, Hughes and Healey.

Newton stays.

[sylvinator 96]

Totally convoluted and unrealistic if no mention of Meesen Newton , Hughes nor Healey can be had... nor demoting to rookie etc as thats a legitimate and precedented practice.

Not sure if this is sarcasm. I assume it is, since i'm sure you know that you can't demote to the rookie list, only delist the player and hope they are unwanted by any other clubs and available by your pick in the PSD. This year especially, since GC17 have the first 5 picks of the rookie draft, they'll take any half decent delisting.

Anyways, on topic of the rookie list, i'd clean it out completely, with the exception of upgrading McKenzie to the senior list. Take a punt on a few players in the rookie draft and try to unearth a gem at a low cost.

Also, just realised i forgot about Martin. Surely he'd be close to being delisted?

- Bell (certain delisting)

- Miller (certain delisting)

- McDonald (retire :-(

- Green (put onto the veteran's lsit)

If we need more spots, then the next to go are Martin and McNamara

[RalphiusMaximus 5,994]

Totally convoluted and unrealistic if no mention of Meesen Newton , Hughes nor Healey can be had... nor demoting to rookie etc as thats a legitimate and precedented practice.

No unrealistic scenariojs ?? This thread must surely be a contradiction in terms

Demoting to rookie list is a nonexistent practice. What there is is delisting a player and then taking them in the rookie draft. There is precedent, but it was more of a legal fiction than a list development move. We did it with two players who would have just been cut had they not had contracts. It is in no way an established or common practice.

As for not mentioning the rookies as delistings. Why would you? Cutting a rookie opens up a new rookie spot. Nothing more. It does not count towards our mandatory delistings It does not get us a pick in the National draft, nor even the pre-season draft. It was specified that you can allocate picks to Rookies you want to promote. We already know how long a player can stay a rookie, so it is a safe assumption that the likes of Spencer, Meesen, Newton, Hughes and Healey will be gone if they are not promoted.

If you're that concerned about the state of our Rookie list, perhaps you could start a thread specifically for the discussion of inclusions and delistings from there? That way we wouldn't have to worry about confusion over these matters.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,994]

- Bell (certain delisting)

- Miller (certain delisting)

- McDonald (retire :-(

- Green (put onto the veteran's lsit)

Just to be sure. You do know that this only gets us a single spot right?

[H_T 2,941]

Now, remember that the number of delistings relates to the number of draft picks we will take and also consider whether there are any rookie listed players you would like to elevate. If you do, they happen before we get a draft pick. So if you want to elevate McKenzie then your 2nd delisting gets us a Rnd 1 draft pick.

My selections:

Bell (McKenzie elevated)

McNamara (Spencer elevated)

Miller (Rnd 1 Draft Pick)

McDonald (Rnd 2 Draft Pick)

Worthwhile thread. Well done. Tend to agree with that list ID. I'll admit early to mid season I was keen for Junior to go around again in 2011, it still might be touch and go. But I'd settle for this and bring on the kids for game time.

Agree with everything except Spencer's elevation - I'd take pick 50 over him on the senior list.

Consider Jack Fitzpatrick. Or Rohan Bail. Or Col Garland. Low picks.

Consider them for what eth38 ?

Totally convoluted and unrealistic if no mention of Meesen Newton , Hughes nor Healey can be had... nor demoting to rookie etc as thats a legitimate and precedented practice.

No unrealistic scenariojs ?? This thread must surely be a contradiction in terms

Have you read the ground rules ?

[jnrmac 19,394]

Bell

Miller

Tommy Mac

Easy really.

Tom is unlucky but hasn't managed to break in.

Jordie will be elevated which means we will get two picks only IMO

[beelzebub 22,528]

Demoting to rookie list is a nonexistent practice. What there is is delisting a player and then taking them in the rookie draft. There is precedent, but it was more of a legal fiction than a list development move. We did it with two players who would have just been cut had they not had contracts. It is in no way an established or common practice.

As for not mentioning the rookies as delistings. Why would you? Cutting a rookie opens up a new rookie spot. Nothing more. It does not count towards our mandatory delistings It does not get us a pick in the National draft, nor even the pre-season draft. It was specified that you can allocate picks to Rookies you want to promote. We already know how long a player can stay a rookie, so it is a safe assumption that the likes of Spencer, Meesen, Newton, Hughes and Healey will be gone if they are not promoted.

If you're that concerned about the state of our Rookie list, perhaps you could start a thread specifically for the discussion of inclusions and delistings from there? That way we wouldn't have to worry about confusion over these matters.

ralph...nice waffle

So Meesen and Newton werent demoted ?? call it what you like it was a contrived demotion. Opening up rookie spots alows for exactly such a process again ,should it be deemed worthwhile.

Its all part of the overall list management. Do you think the club ignores it ?

[e25 5]

Name one other team that has used the "rookie demotion" tactic?

[Diablo Deemon 220]

So it comes to the business end where careers are salvaged, swapped, squandered or stomped on.

Delistings:

Maric - I just don't see it he's another Valenti type who can dominate at VFL and that's it yes he was rough to

get dropped a couple of rounds ago. But is was the first half decent game he's played for the MFC. 12 games 3 seasons chance is over. Just re-read the contracted players seems Maric must have another year poo.Delist to rookie possibly.

Miller - Consensus is he is a great leader who has been phenomenal in this area. He has qualified for Father & Son so Brad

get breading. No room left for him.

Bell - Doesn't have the motor, legs or disposal ability in midfield and is 9th to 10th ranked in the backline.

Newton - Not much to say really decent at VFL level lacked the ability to impose himself at AFL level.

Possible Delistings:

Mcdonald - Captain's choice has the right to call time when it suits him.

Martin - Again likely type who just can't seem to impose himself at all. Definitely on the cusp.I wonder

If we can delist then rookie him like we did with players last year.

McNamara - Hasn't shown much so far possible further development required.

Rookie Delistings:

Healey

Hughes

Meesen

Rookie Elevations: McKenzie - Amazing season has shown as much as Skully and Trengove with some size he will be a belter.

Spencer - Hasn't shown enough for promotion to main list re-rookie if possible.

3 main list delistings

3 rookie delistings

Edited August 16, 2010 by Diablo Deemon

[Prof 15]

OFF

Miller, Bell, Tom M

McDonald will be given the option to decide for himself.

I spoke to Bruce's parents recently. They say he loves the R&B. Definitely wants to stay.

Bate may consider an offer from GC. (I think it unlikely that they will be interested.)

[dee-luded 2,958]

Warnock > Hawks - P19??????

Bate > GC Suns - P9????????

Miller > Richmond - P28 (2ndRnd)?????

Spencer (contract), or > Hawthorn - P36 or Dowler}.

PJohnson trade/delist >>> Newton (Elevate or Rookie list).

Bruce, (1Yr) or if he wants 2, > GC Suns, for a compensatory pick.

Bell - sorry belly, delist. >>> elevate McKenzie.

Meeson - I think will go. I was a critic of his games, but the last 2-3 were OK, prior to injury, so I don't feel qualified re his fitness & ability.

We end up with, 1stRnd (P14-16), ?P9, ?P19, ?P28.

My scenario is still fluent, depending on how things would pan out @ trade week.

Meesen

Daniel Bell

PJ – Trade

Brad Miller - Trade

Matthew Warnock - Trade

Matthew Bate - Poss trade.

Jake Spencer - Poss trade

Cameron Bruce - Trade

-----------------------

Junior McDonald - Keep

Danny Hughes - Keep

Rhys Healey - Keep

James Strauss – Keep

Kyle Cheney – Keep

Tom McNamara - Keep

Rohan Bail - Keep

Lynden Dunn - Keep

Clint Bartram - Keep

Sam Blease - Keep

Jordan McKenzie - elevate

Brent Moloney - Keep

Nathan Jones - Keep

Jack Watts – Keep

Michael Newton - Oct 2010 – keep, contract/rookie?

Edited August 16, 2010 by dee-luded

[Eth 4]

Consider them for what eth38 ?

They're low picks that turned (or in Fitzy's case, will turn) into good players. I'm suggesting that pick 50 can be very handy.

For some more proof, pick 58 in the 2001 AFL Draft is the favourite to win the Brownlow.

[PeterJames 46]

I think most will depend on each other, in this I mean if we keep Paul Johnson then Spencer should not be elevated. I think he shouldn't as he is no good and never will be!

If we delist Miller and say Bate goes and even Martin then we should look at Promoting Hughes. He was good when he got a go!

As our Ruck and forward stocks are the issue it would seem Bell and Mcnamara could be in real trouble.

With the gold Coast coming in this year it gives a lot of fringe and young players a good opportunity to go somewhere to prove themselves like Mcnamara and Hughes.

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

I would reply to peoples comments individually, but i dont know how to get the green box come up with your comment...!

I think we need Bate & Miller - Yes thats right i said Miller. While it hurts me to even think this, he adds depth to a forward line. Same with Bate on a higher level than Miller. Lets not forget that while not a great option Miller could be used as a back up in defence (he did play on Barry Hall a few times was tried there early days. If Miller does go ill be sad to say goodbye to Pia.

Tommy Mac - gone. Done nothing, doing nothing at Casey, i know he is young (same age as morton...) but we can do better. I would prefer to keep Miller than Tommy Mac...

Bye bye to: Tommy Mac, Junior (251 games, who would of thought?? Great leader of the club), Bartram (trade, disposal VFL standard, would have value on the market), Bell (Im a big fan but never reached potential, injuries cost him).

Also Newton, Healy, Spencer to go from the rookie list with Jordie elevated.

Green to Vets list

Ok so by now you would have realised that i want Miller to stay, havent said get rid of Meesen, and have kept Hughes. Hughes is a no brainer, Miller as i said adds depth which we need (and can play down back). Meesen was good when he played, people on this thread have bagged him out... When fit he is better than PJ, and ideal back up to Jamar until others develop.

People have also said to trade Strauss, he is a good kid currently playing off a half back flank for Casey & was dominating earlier in the year. Kicks the ball like a missile... Next year will move into the midfield and push for selection. Lets not get hasty with young JS...

[Eth 4]

You can click 'multiquote' underneath the posts you want, then press 'reply' right down the bottom

[Fat Tony 4,552]

IMO the brains trust showed poor list management skills again in giving Cheney a two-year deal. They obviously didn't learn anything from what happened with Newton. All fringe players should be given one-year deals from now on.

I would look to trade players outside what I would call our 'core' bunch of young stars to try to upgrade our draft position. Players with market appeal that I would consider trading include Morton, Bate, Bennell and Warnock. (e.g. Our first pick plus Bennell for WC’s pick 4.) Of this group, the only one that I would be really worried about letting go would be Bennell.

Spencer has not shown me enough to be given a contract. He is too slow and uncoordinated and I don’t think he will make it.

I would like to see Junior go on, but not as captain.

Of the rest, it would depend on any trades we do.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

They're low picks that turned (or in Fitzy's case, will turn) into good players. I'm suggesting that pick 50 can be very handy.

For some more proof, pick 58 in the 2001 AFL Draft is the favourite to win the Brownlow.

Check the odds of success Eth38 and see how many pick 50s make it?? Hmmm

Well looks like I am the only one left in the Daniel Bell fan club!

I think he has a lot still to offer.

But which club in the VFL?

....

Seriously deluded.

[Felix 92]

Meesan & Bell to be shown the door. Meesan will be out of AFL for at least 4 years, not back until 2012. Not sure why people want to persist with an injury prone player.

Miller or Newton to go, I think the forward line has enough spare parts.

[Mono 454]

Bell

Miller

Tommy Mac

Easy really.

Tom is unlucky but hasn't managed to break in.

Jordie will be elevated which means we will get two picks only IMO

Delisting Mcnamara (or any other) is not necessarily terminal as far as their career at MFC is concerned.

There have been examples in the past where a club has been required to delist 3; but has redrafted 1 of them.

If McNamara is delisted, he may well get a go somewhere else, or end back at MFC. Depends what else is on offer. My guess is he would get a gig somewhere.

Makes you wonder about the wisdom of entering a draft bottom aged - hard to make an impact if you're not a 1st pick.

[Salems Lot 2,394]

A little bird has mentioned Jones to the Suns

Hope this is false

The source was close to the Jones family

[Felix 92]

A little bird has mentioned Jones to the Suns

Hope this is false

The source was close to the Jones family

could explain that strange dropping a few weeks back...

He does love the to surf.

Maybe he can squash the rumour with a "tweet" stating he is staying @ MFC..

Edited August 16, 2010 by Sturmmann

[titan_uranus 22,912]

Good thread.

Bell is the absolute certainty. Miller's close enough to absolutely certain. So that's two, and I'd have McKenzie and our first round draft pick to take their spots.

Next comes the ruck question. PJ is crap but is the incumbent, Martin has shown next to nothing as a ruckman but has shown promise as a defender, and Spencer has shown a little bit but still doesn't inspire confidence. It seems that Martin is contracted, so I reckon the battle is between PJ and Spencer. I really can't decide, but I think I'd prefer to see Spencer get the gig in front of PJ who still can't crack it. So I'd delist PJ and promote Spencer in his place.

Next, I think McDonald will retire. Not a decision that I'd like, but I reckon he might notice players like Brad Johnson, Simon Goodwin, Brett Burton, Andrew McLeod, Andrew Embley, Brett Kirk etc. dropping off rapidly, and I wouldn't put it past him to put the team in front of his own career. He'll finish on 249-251 games, a fine achievement, after a fine year, and going out on a high might be a great way for him to end his career. If this happens, Green gets moved onto the Veteran's list and we get another pick.

Finally, I cannot stomach delisting McNamara, I think he has so much upside. To be honest and fair, if it came down to it, I'd much prefer to delist Maric or Cheney and keep McNamara, but the former two are contracted so that puts TMac in the gun. For mine, Strauss hasn't shown a lot at Casey this year and is no certainty to make it either, and if there's one more delisting that has to take place it will be McNamara or Strauss. I'd rather not see either of them go.

So it seems I've come up with this:

Delist: Bell, Miller, PJ

Retire: McDonald

Upgrade to Veteran's list: Green

Promote from rookie list: McKenzie, Spencer

Take two selections from the ND

I think that satisfactorily covers it.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Seriously deluded.

Whats this Rhino? Explain yourself.

Edited August 16, 2010 by dee-luded

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

You can click 'multiquote' underneath the posts you want, then press 'reply' right down the bottom

Hope this works, thanks for the tip!

[Mono 454]

A little bird has mentioned Jones to the Suns

Hope this is false

The source was close to the Jones family

Should surprise no-one. We have surplus, quality, young mids and more coming through. There aint room for all.

You can probably add Morton to any speculation.

AND, NO, I am not suggesting Jones (or any other) should be traded. But there will be rationalising of some sort. No doubt. More likely the odd player will be asking to be traded if they think their future at MFC is in the balance, and there are better opportunities elsewhere. (eg McLean)