We've certainly developed our list a lot over the last 3 years. We're starting to see where different guys will play, and who is capable of taking us to our next tilt at the flag. Superficial onlookers always immediately say our forward line is the problem, but I thought I'd try a different way to look at it.

Categories:

- Core players: guys who we think are/will almost certainly be a gun, or at least very good players. Players you can rely on and build your future team around.

- Good players: guys you think will make it as good AFL footballers, playing a role in the starting 22 each and every week going forward.

- Depth players: guys you wouldn't ideally want in the 22, but will play a few games to fill gaps when needed

NB: I haven't included Bruce or JMcDonald because they're 30+ and won't be playing in 2 years and I also haven't included Daniel Bell because he is a certainty to be delisted.

Because this is a mixture of what our list currently looks like and what it will look like once our young guns develop, there is an element of prediction involved with our younger players.

Defenders:

CP= Frawley, Grimes

GP= Garland, Warnock, (Strauss? Largely based on personal prediction)

DP= Rivers, Joel Macdonald, Bartram, Cheney, McNamara, Martin

Midfield:

CP= Scully, Trengove, Davey

GP= Moloney, Morton, McKenzie, Blease, Gysberts

DP= Jones, Jetta, Bail

Forwards:

CP= Jurrah, Watts

GP= Bate, Sylvia, Green, Petterd, Bennel, Tapscott

DP= Dunn, Wonaeamirri, Miller, Maric (Fitzpatrick? project player)

Rucks:

CP= Jamar

GP=

DP= PJ, Spenser, (Gawn? Project player)

Obviously this is largely based on personal opinion, however I think it highlights an interesting point. Many of us take it for granted that we have a very strong defence, and a developing forward and midfield.

However from this analysis:

Defence: We have a lot of options (lots of depth), but are light on quality moving forward. This would be exacerbated should Grimes move to the midfield. It looks like we are lacking in quality half back flankers who can provide genuine drive and rebound from defence and could really use another quality big defender as well

Midfield: Our midfield looks to be developing very nicely, with a nice balance of inside and outside players. Could use some more top echelon talent, perhaps one more gun core player would finish the midfield off nicely

Forwards: Actually looks like we have a lot of really good quality here going forward. Our top 8 players in core and good players are very strong, in fact probably the strongest of all positions. I think our fully developed forward line is very promising!

This makes me think that counter to my initial belief that our defence is set, and our forward line is a rabble, it could be that we need to put more work into our defence.

Needs going forward:

- at least 3 more 'good' defenders + hopefully 1 more 'core' defender

- one more 'core' midfielder

- one more 'core' forward, preferably a small goal sneak which we completely lack

- obviously another 'good' ruckman

Thoughts? Does anyone else agree that it could actually be our defence that needs the biggest injection of talent moving forward?

I don't think a team is ever settled in modern footy-we will always be looking to improve all three areas.

Because most of the players you speak of moving forward are still just Potential. Frawley & Grimes will make it in defence but the rest is still open.

Right |Now our Ruck situation is dicey-If Jamar is injured long term at all who gets the first ruck job?

Our Back ups have not progressed as well as hoped. Fingers crossed The Big Russian plays out the year.

The Forward line going forward is still in the Womb apart from Green so we wait.

It will be very interesting to see which of our senior players we retain after this year.

I don't think a team is ever settled in modern footy-we will always be looking to improve all three areas.

Because most of the players you speak of moving forward are still just Potential. Frawley & Grimes will make it in defence but the rest is still open.

Right |Now our Ruck situation is dicey-If Jamar is injured long term at all who gets the first ruck job?

Our Back ups have not progressed as well as hoped. Fingers crossed The Big Russian plays out the year.

The Forward line going forward is still in the Womb apart from Green so we wait.

It will be very interesting to see which of our senior players we retain after this year.

Of course our forward line should always be GOING FORWARD!

I reckon we need a hard, tough back pocket. I don't think Bartram is quite good enough and there's only one of him anyway. We are vulnerable when our 4 talls go up to spoil and we have nobody to rove and clear

Of course our forward line should always be GOING FORWARD!

HaHaHa! Pay that one..Going forward yes, right now it is often a vacant lot which i really hope is rectified in these remaining 8 games. Forwards must run harder or stay forward.

It would be great to get another tall forward or try Garland maybe.

It would be great to get another tall forward or try Garland maybe.

I think we need to keep Garland down back, we need quality defenders.

Defenders:

CP= Frawley, Grimes

GP= Garland, Warnock, (Strauss? Largely based on personal prediction)

DP= Rivers, Joel Macdonald, Bartram, Cheney, McNamara, Martin

Midfield:

CP= Scully, Trengove, Davey

GP= Moloney, Morton, McKenzie, Blease, Gysberts

DP= Jones, Jetta, Bail

Forwards:

CP= Jurrah, Watts

GP= Bate, Sylvia, Green, Petterd, Bennel, Tapscott

DP= Dunn, Wonaeamirri, Miller, Maric (Fitzpatrick? project player)

Rucks:

CP= Jamar

GP=

DP= PJ, Spenser, (Gawn? Project player)

First I'd like to say great analysis and great thread, but I'd like to do my own:

Defenders:

CP= Frawley, Grimes

GP= Garland, Warnock, Rivers, Strauss (could be CP), Cheney

DP= Joel Macdonald, Bartram, McNamara, Martin

Midfield:

CP= Scully, Trengove, Davey, McKenzie

GP= Moloney, Morton, Blease, Gysberts, Jones, Jetta

DP= I actually think that, given how young Jones/Jetta/Blease/Gysberts are, all of them could easily become great players and be in the best 22 every week, so no DPs here

Forwards:

CP= Jurrah, Watts, Tapscott, Petterd

GP= Bate, Sylvia, Green, Bennel, Fitzpatrick (almost CP, next KPF), Bail, Wonaeamirri

DP= Dunn, Miller, Maric

Rucks:

CP= Jamar

GP= Gawn

DP= PJ, Spencer

Maybe I could be a bit stricter, but this is my honest opinion

next years forward line Jurrah Green Aussie/Jetta

Pettard Watts Sylvia

Bate needs to be consistent, been around long enough. need crumber. multi dimensional

Really good thread.

It's bringing some reality into our inflated dreams about our future. Forget talk of premierships. I'm confident of developing a final eight team. The question is can we build a top four team. The final steps are massive leaps and you can not tell until you are up there.

We need another tall back of the Frawley quality and I don't see one there yet.

I find it hard to let go of my dream that Fitzpatrick will be the missing quality forward. He Watts and Liam J would then be a powerful ariel forward line. Of the forwards Petterd is looking good and could reach unexpected heights

I agree that the forward line has greater potential in its ranks than the backs even if at this point it is lagging a bit behind.

Can I break back into dream mode? Jack Viney may be the extr mid we are hoping for. And it looks like we will get another top 10 pick this year.

First I'd like to say great analysis and great thread, but I'd like to do my own:

Defenders:

CP= Frawley, Grimes

GP= Garland, Warnock, Rivers, Strauss (could be CP), Cheney

DP= Joel Macdonald, Bartram, McNamara, Martin

Midfield:

CP= Scully, Trengove, Davey, McKenzie

GP= Moloney, Morton, Blease, Gysberts, Jones, Jetta

DP= I actually think that, given how young Jones/Jetta/Blease/Gysberts are, all of them could easily become great players and be in the best 22 every week, so no DPs here

Forwards:

CP= Jurrah, Watts, Tapscott, Petterd

GP= Bate, Sylvia, Green, Bennel, Fitzpatrick (almost CP, next KPF), Bail, Wonaeamirri

DP= Dunn, Miller, Maric

Rucks:

CP= Jamar

GP= Gawn

DP= PJ, Spencer

Maybe I could be a bit stricter, but this is my honest opinion

I am more in line with your way of thinking Eth.

And people are have mentioned about our lack of another top line big back. While i would love to have it, i would moreso love to have a top quality back 6 unit. Lets say Frawley, Grimes, Garland, Warnock, Bail/Strauss, Cheney/Maric (See my other thread topic re Maric).

I think the back group we have is developing along nicely. And our defensive results this year i think are testiment to that.

I believe we have a gun midfield group in the making and Viney (provided he wants too) would just add another class mid.

Our forwards are where the most development will need to continue and hopefully Fitzpatrick can come on. The thought of Sylvia, Watts, Bate, Jurrah, Fitzpatrick, Petterd gets me firm and then having blokes like Bennell, Tappy, Davey and Sylvia just floating around i almost blew the top off!

(PS whatever our draftpick is this year, it needs to be used on another big forward, whatever the risk).

We need some sort of cheating thug. Far too pissweak a team at the moment, needs some edge.

Obviously a tough tall forward who doesn't mind breaking packs & a strong O/H Mark.

We need more footspeed through thew middle, I'd like to get a dashing tall winger (188 - 190cm) who can hit targets & the goals.

And,,, a christmas present please, does anyone know of any clones of Cyril?

Sam Blease

It would be great to get another tall forward or try Garland maybe.

Not a personal attack on you 13th, but I'm sick to death of hearing this "Garland to forward" attitude.

Currently on the ladder, we are ranked 7th in regards to Points Against. For a team that is placed 15th on the ladder, I think this is a great indication as to where our strength is - defense. Why would we want to change that around too much, especially by taking our number 2 or 3 defender out of a role he is performing well in, and putting him up forward as an experiment?

Another point we need to think of in regards to our defenders is that, especially over the past month or so, the opposition midfield in most of these games are first class. As a result, the amount of pressure our defenders have been under has been extreme due to the amount of inside 50's our opponents are having. So, because we are in the "top 8" as far as points against goes, I think our defenders are doing a bloody good job.

I can see the theory behind trying Garland up forward (immediate KPF), but don't forget, we have drafted a developing midfield and forward line over the past couple of years. Watts has shown glimpses this year, imagine what he will be like with another pre-season under his belt - which hopefully will be his first that is uninterrupted with schooling of injury. We have drafted Kitzpatrick, with the view of him developing in to a big body down there too, then we have Petterd, Sylvia, Green and Jurrah to kick goals also.

While I'm not saying we sit back and think we have done a great job, what I'm trying to say is that our defense is one of the best in the league, so why change it? Let's keep that group playing as much footy together as we can so for the next decade, they will be as tight as anything. Today will be the 4th(?) game where Watts and Jurrah have played alongside each other, imagine what that forward line COULD be like once Watts, LJ, Green, Sylvia, Petterd and Tapscott play 20 games with each other. Results might even happen quicker than 20 games - what could it be like with 50+ games?

We need some sort of cheating thug. Far too pissweak a team at the moment, needs some edge.

With a capital C.

facing facts bruce and McDonald will be asked to move on comes years end end . we have a great list of young players . forwards mids and backs . they need games together ie watts jurrah sylvia with delivery from our emerging midfield. living in sydney has been hard . so far this year ive been too two games the lions victory and queens birthday .

No, I took Bleasey into account,,, I am talking about the opposite wing. A tall one though with plenty of urgency, not sleepy morton.

Don't undersell Morton. He is class. His first 2 years were the example of that. Yes he has been down since coming back from injury this year but rest assured this kid can play and his class and poise will be a cornerstone of the Demons for years to come.

Quality players can be moved positions - ie. Murphy (who started back, went forward and is currently back again), Harbrow, Enright, Kelly, Hodge. If Rohan Bail and Jamie Bennell make it as well or even better than I hope they do I see no reason why they couldn't become quality half back flankers to add some class to the back half. Morton is another with no set position.

One thing about this thread, I do wonder if Lynden Dunn can just be kept on the list for a special tagging and defensive forward option. His last month of football has again seen him shuffled positions but has been really successful. He played a nice defensive forward role against Coll and StKilda and tagged beautifully today (without conceding free kicks and with getting a lot of his own footy).

I reckon we need a hard, tough back pocket. I don't think Bartram is quite good enough and there's only one of him anyway. We are vulnerable when our 4 talls go up to spoil and we have nobody to rove and clear

I agree that our developing defence is still in need af a good back pocket player

what do others think about Rohan Bail filling that position ?

Obviously a tough tall forward who doesn't mind breaking packs & a strong O/H Mark.

We need more footspeed through thew middle, I'd like to get a dashing tall winger (188 - 190cm) who can hit targets & the goals.

And,,, a christmas present please, does anyone know of any clones of Cyril?

All of the above and I'd like anothertall back as a back up.

I agree that our developing defence is still in need af a good back pocket player

what do others think about Rohan Bail filling that position ?

Could do it well, but I would like to see him on a flank or wing with space to work in. Would do a better job than Cheney IMO

We need more footspeed through thew middle, I'd like to get a dashing tall winger (188 - 190cm) who can hit targets & the goals.

I think our midfield* still needs addressing. I know we have Gysberts, Bail, Blease and Tapscott (although Tapscott could be more the half forward type - remains to be seen if he has the motor) in the wings and the younger contingent of Scully, Trengove, McKenzie are still taking their first steps. But I can't stop to think that with Junior coming to an end of a valuable footy career the dynamics of the midfield remain up in the air for a quality, close checking; clearance player. Whilst acknowledging the fact we have Moloney & Jones as those who operate in tight and that do clearance work - do they really hurt the opposition ?

*(I won't rest until our midfield resembles a fine oiled machine - Rolls Royce variety)

Well obviously the forward line is still a beast in the making. Other than suggesting Watts and Jurrah WILL be there a lot of other bits and pieces are far from obvious or settled. Somewhere ( and for the life of me cant find it ) was a suggestion that BP was still looking at another tall large forward. We probably have enough medium height guys to fill in the gaps around them. Green whilst a good goal scorer isnt ( for mine ) a forward. Imnot convinced about Bate yet either. Davey is wasted in a pocket. Guys like Petterd and Sylvia are natural flankers.

Still much work on format down there if not personnel.

The midfileld needs refinement more than construction and possibly say the introduction of Viney down the track as well as the maturing of Gysberts and possibly others playing a semi midfiled role whilst not actually part of it might see it all come together. Rucking is a worry in terms of relief for Russian and insurance. Gawn might be the idea..but thats a long way off. Do we dangle picks at a table in order to secure someone ??

Backline coming along quite ok ..needs further maturing and nous..otherwise OK

Yep agree that a beast KPF is needed in the draft.

Viney will add another midfield bow. Blease has apparently got pace to burn. Bennel and Davey clearly do. Morton has a mind that moves quicker than anyone else's legs and he will be a gun.

If they need more speed they can use some later draft picks on them.

The main priority is as i said a big KPF or two.