Jack Watts out of contract at the end of the year

[Mono 455]

I thought that when he got the ball today his ball use showed why he was taken at Nm1.

His next contract will be in part based on his potential but that is a market reality.I am glad the OP is not our list manager.

What game where you watching? His ball use when he had time was timid. I can remember plenty of times short passes did not have enough weight; a handball to a running player with space was behind the player.

At this stage, Watts doesn't hit a marking contest with any purpose or confidence. His saving grace to me is that in medium traffic, his instinctive hands are quick and precise. Instinctive is the important word here - he does not play instinctively.

The 2008 draft will be a good talking point in time:

1. Watts has turned into a project player

2. Nataunui is also a project player - reminds me of an NRL player trying to learn the game

3. Rich may well have played his best year in his first year

4. The best players from it are currently a couple of very lightly framed mids

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Yep. I thought he looked pretty good leading up the wing against Collingwood and he did more of the same today. He is (slowly) learning that you can't just stand there and wait for things to happen at this level no matter what talent you have. When he works hard to get in front he looks good but when he doesn't he is a spectator - it's now up to him to decide what he wants to be.

My more pressing concern is why Brad Miller keeps getting games. He will never improve and in 4 games out of 5 we might as well have a pot-plant in his position for all the use that he is.

Funny. Agree.

He`ll make a good witches hat at training!

[1.21 GigaWatts 1]

Emotions are funny things...

I LOVE watching the Dees.

I HATE Jack Watts threads.

I'm intrigued by Jack Watts threads.

It's like the horrible scene where you can't look away.

Yeah you read that right. I hate having to defend the clubs decision in picking Watts but I do it. The kid shows potential where some motions/possessions/marks are amazing. That's nice to see. It's the basics that are missing. I'll continue to defend this guys skill, in the way that a saint will defend Kosis skill. We don't have a Riewoldt. We seem to have a lesser Johnstone. Bartram goes to sleep and dreams of the skill Watts has. Watts goes to sleep and dreams of whatever he wants. Bartram will hurt himself if it means getting the ball. I haven't seen that from Watts.

You'll

Today I had to watch the game at my local. My girlfriend joined me and questioned his desire. In one passage there was a play after a stoppage. Everyone wants the ball and fights and tackles. Even the commentators mention "Watts is staying away from the contests." They said it in the plural. I was cut. Yeah you're only young. Yeah you're smaller... but you're playing with the big boys now. Throw yourself in, TACKLE!!! FFS. Let the little guys work with the ball on the ground. You're the big man! Hit those in the contest. Wrap em up! You'll get thrown aside and you'll fail but you'll have tried! The rebuild is over and it's time to win games. Poor rake Morton circa 08-09 got thrown aside and continues to do so, but we love him. As it stands, from what i've seen of this high school footballer, he'd do well to man the [censored] up.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

If I was still moderating these boards I would.

And if you did that would be a mistake.

This is a supporters' site. If we have a problem we should be able to express ourselves, within reasonable limits. Nothing here has gotten even CLOSE to the garbage you've spewed forth for Newton, PJ or the disgracefulness you allowed here when it comes to Bruce.

But when someone comes on here and touches on how much Watts is underachieving suddenly it's time to "stop Watts bashing threads?" No. He's going to polarise us for years to come.

You can't just pick and choose the threads you want to continue just because you love one player, or hate another.

This is an MFC site that likes talking about Watts. Let it go.

[Red Sox 2]

29 times we went into our forward 50.....MATTHEW BATE FOR THIS REASON IS SO UNDER RATED!!! Jack Watts.....well what can he do??? I will say again he lead up well and got a decent amount of the ball. He DOES need to show some more urgency, he is not exactly soft.

If the ball movement is better, Jack will look better.

[beelzebub 23,337]

Im definitely of the opinion that Jack Watts hasnt arrived...now by this I mean his head. Whilst his body needs to and wil continue to fill and solidify its where his head is at that wil determine his ultimate success in ensuing years. The chat to his aubt some weeks back was very enlightening and it just highlighted that he isnt quite 'here' yet. He doesnt feel yet that 100% deservedness to be at the highest echelon of the sport. He's still somewhat overawed by it all.. A bit like six weeks ago I coulndt spell Enjuneer and now I am one sort of thing.

Give hime the rest of teh year in both the 1's and magoos and get him through a complete and unfaltered preseason. Get him 'better' mentored and he'll come out next year a different bloke...and thats it..he'll be a bloke not a boy. He'll start to feel he belongs not only in the team ...but playing footy at its highest.

In a nutshell he hasnt clicked yet.

[titan_uranus 24,991]

People who question why Watts can't keep his feet: he's running around on two matchsticks. He's top heavy. Once he strengthens his legs he'll be able to support the relatively heavier torso/shoulder region. Until then his centre of gravity is a bit too far away from the ground. His core is weak.

Also, he played a lot better yesterday than he had for the last few weeks. His best game since Darwin I'd think. Which isn't saying much, I know, but at least he went forward from QBW and not backward.

If I was still moderating these boards I would.

How come you're not a mod anymore?

[jnrmac 20,058]

How about Jack Watts spends some of his footy income on boots with %#^$&@)#$)(&$*)(* studs in them.

Then he might stop falling over every time the ball goes past the centre line.

[CarnTheDees 52]

The sticking of the boot into Watts has been done to death.

We would never discuss how much any of our players should earn, and nor should we. We have a list manager for that, and all we should care about is that he is signed and continues to develop.

If you don't like it then don't read it. There is far and away from the worst thread we've seen recently. And based on your logic above, we shouldn't discuss any of the following things on this board:

-Gameplan and weekly selection - we have coaches for that.

-Recruiting/drafting/trading - we have BP et al for that.

-Membership issues - we have a membership department for that.

-Training venues, future home of the club (Casey, Olympic Park etc) - we have Schwabby/CC/Jimmy for that.

etc etc

The reality with Watts right now is that if he was taken at pick 40, he would be currently playing at Casey and would have only played 2 or 3 games at AFL level instead of the 10-odd that he now has. And the club would be seriously considering not re-signing him for any future years, or only re-signing him at a base level. But because he was pick 1, they cut him more slack with selections and they will definitely re-sign him with an offer of probably more money than he has shown he is worth to date. This is all based on his potential, on what he did in U-18s and the draft camp and how he carries himself around the club. I'm not saying it's the right or wrong thing to do but it is what it is and it is how it will happen.

[ox_5 163]

How about Jack Watts spends some of his footy income on boots with %#^$&@)#$)(&$*)(* studs in them.

Then he might stop falling over every time the ball goes past the centre line.

Alot of players slipped over yesterday. Are you going to throw criticism at Scully too? What about McKenzie? What about Jones?

[H_T 3,043]

People who question why Watts can't keep his feet: he's running around on two matchsticks. He's top heavy. Once he strengthens his legs he'll be able to support the relatively heavier torso/shoulder region. Until then his centre of gravity is a bit too far away from the ground. His core is weak.

Also, he played a lot better yesterday than he had for the last few weeks. His best game since Darwin I'd think. Which isn't saying much, I know, but at least he went forward from QBW and not backward.

He'd certainly make a good point guard in Basketball. That's my observation of Watts, when an opponent close by has the ball. Jack has a tendancy to corrale the opponent, as if he is about to attempt a "steal", then realising he's playing footy and a tackle is required.

Truth is - and I'm stating the obvious really - Jack has much to work on. He may even well be a late maturer. At 196cm he is (and will be) coming to terms with the game itself as well as his developing body.

Fans want him to be something NOW, reality check, it's not going to happen overnight, nor this year or maybe the next. Neither is the consistent performance of our team for that matter.

Once he understands his body and requirements of his position to the team alot better, we'll see him contest more often in the air when he gains more confidence. We'll see a harder edge.

OBSERVATION # 6078.

As for losing his feet. Like Watts, I saw Scully go to ground along with a few others from Melbourne. I'm not certain whether the players wore screw ins or moulded, but I know Adelaide had wet weather in the four days proceeding yesterday's game. This is a big bug bear of mine. The players (and coaching staff for that matter) should know a hell of alot better with regard to the conditions of the ground. They were slipping over as if they were playing on an ice skating rink yesterday. Making wrong decisions like these are 1/costly and 2/unforgiveable !

[Jaded No More 68,880]

How come you're not a mod anymore?

Because clearly my views differ from that of the rest of the mods.

I don't think it's appropriate to discuss anyone's salary, be it Watts, Bruce, Junior or anyone else.

Just as posters here wouldn't want to discuss how much they earn.

It's fine to talk about what contract we think a player should get, but talking pay packets is silly and frankly demeaning to the player.

Also, I don't think it's necessary to make a new thread about Watts every week, just as it is/was/will be unnecessary to make a new thread about Bruce, Miller and how crap our forward line, every single week.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Jaded

[beelzebub 23,337]

In many respects Watts is a very( very ,very ) good basketballer who could also just happen to play a very decent game of footy. As others mention he hasnt the harder pedigree of someand his exposure to the many differing qualities of the game therefore lacks.

If messrs Ox, Lyon and Neeta want to do something quite invaluable then take this kid and SHOW him how to play that part of the ground. i fear much of the forward coaching is about the structure and play not the individual. We have these club champions who could surely teach Watts a thing or 12 about how you go about the forward line...Please..lol

[e25 5]

People who question why Watts can't keep his feet: he's running around on two matchsticks. He's top heavy. Once he strengthens his legs he'll be able to support the relatively heavier torso/shoulder region. Until then his centre of gravity is a bit too far away from the ground. His core is weak.

Also, he played a lot better yesterday than he had for the last few weeks. His best game since Darwin I'd think. Which isn't saying much, I know, but at least he went forward from QBW and not backward.

It's 100% his core strength.

I thought that was blatantly obvious; it confuses me as to why more people don't understand this.

It's why, as a general rule, I don't participate in this "keeping your feet" threads.

It is a non-issue.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Watts doesn't look like he will make it.

Fool. Less than a dozen games and you have already written him off. Bet you wrote off Frawley too a few years ago.

Give him another 40 games then make your decision...

Keep Watts & Jurrah in the side, they both need to be there. Jurrah could take the pressure off Watts.

Agree.

29 times we went into our forward 50.....MATTHEW BATE FOR THIS REASON IS SO UNDER RATED!!! Jack Watts.....well what can he do??? I will say again he lead up well and got a decent amount of the ball. He DOES need to show some more urgency, he is not exactly soft.

If the ball movement is better, Jack will look better.

Agree. And so does Bailey if you read his comments on AFL website. Backs and Mids disposals were crap.

The reality with Watts right now is that if he was taken at pick 40, he would be currently playing at Casey and would have only played 2 or 3 games at AFL level instead of the 10-odd that he now has. And the club would be seriously considering not re-signing him for any future years, or only re-signing him at a base level. But because he was pick 1, they cut him more slack with selections and they will definitely re-sign him with an offer of probably more money than he has shown he is worth to date. This is all based on his potential, on what he did in U-18s and the draft camp and how he carries himself around the club. I'm not saying it's the right or wrong thing to do but it is what it is and it is how it will happen.

Yes, because he is pick 1 they will cut him more slack and give him more games. So just get over it. Just like WC with Nic Nat who aside from a couple of highlight reel moments has done absolutely bugger all and i would hesitate to say, gets less possessions that Watts playing on the ball. They will both take time, they will both take 40 or 50 games to really get going, probably another couple of years and both WC and MFC realised that. Now you should too.

[old dee 23,787]

This really is like his first season not his second. He'll bulk up over the next preseason - there should be plenty for the coaches to work on.

We should sign him for three years.

He is a talent - look how long Jamar took! He'll be right in time.

Good grief I won't see him play a good game.

I am too old for that long of a wait, probably be in the ground by then.

Can we bring it forward a bit? a bit of mercy for an old Dee!

[old dee 23,787]

In many respects Watts is a very( very ,very ) good basketballer who could also just happen to play a very decent game of footy. As others mention he hasnt the harder pedigree of someand his exposure to the many differing qualities of the game therefore lacks.

If messrs Ox, Lyon and Neeta want to do something quite invaluable then take this kid and SHOW him how to play that part of the ground. i fear much of the forward coaching is about the structure and play not the individual. We have these club champions who could surely teach Watts a thing or 12 about how you go about the forward line...Please..lol

Can we then find a very very good footballer who can play a decent game of Basket ball!

[Red Sox 2]

It's unfortunate that Jack lost his feet a few times in previous games because he has become a scapegoat for this pandemic yesterday that affected near on every player on occasion and some on numerous occasions, not just J Watts.

If you are looking for this guy/kid to rip a game to pieces, then look elsewhere...it's not going to happen straight away for him as it does not happen for many many players of his size.

If you noticed an improvement in his game yesterday, then good on you because you noticed a bit more than others just can't see. It would be great if he was tearing it apart, it would be great if Jones and Moloney were Judd and Ablett.

They aren't, he is not...I realise it's not so simple but there are gradual signs of improvement. Agree with the calls that he and Jurrah as soon as Jurrah is right to go should play out the season together. Stuff getting Casey games into him and finals at VFL level, yeah it might help but better to put genuine AFL game time into him with the forwards that he will spend a good decent part of his career with hopefully, being he, Jurrah, Bate and even hopefully Tapscott later in the year.

He has been a bit unfortunate that we have had so many injuries up forward. If Jack was able to slip into a forward line where Jurrah, Bate and Petterd were genuine targets imagine the release for Jack?

Patience!

[old dee 23,787]

He'll get about $400,000 for 2 years imo.

This is a serious question I am not being a smart arse.

Do guys like Watts that have played a hand full of games and at best been average

get paid 200 big ones a year?

[RalphiusMaximus 6,046]

OK. So the consensus it that Watts is still developing his body, is at the moment too weak to stand up to the big backs he's playing on and is timid ion contests. Does that about sum it up?

Oddly, he has said very similar things himself. He, like everyone else here, knows that he needs more time in the gym to build up his strength and fitness before he will be truly competitive at this level. In fact he recently said that he expected to take another two pre-seasons to get his body up to the level it needed to be. Not only are these the words of someone who understands how much he needs to do before he is really ready for this level, but it speaks of a long-term plan by the coaching/fitness staff who would have mapped out for him the development they expect.

Getting back to the actual topic, which has very little to do with how Jack played on the weekend or his falling over or general fitness...

I think the club will be pushing for a three year deal with his contract. If they get him tucked away for three it takes the immediate pressure off him to perform (and since we all know they see him as a slow, long-term project this is reasonable) and also takes him off the wish-list for both GC and GWS. It would probably have to be slightly above what you'd expect a player of his experience to earn, with some nice performance incentives thrown in. I doubt they'd want to sign him to less than three years given the state of the game at the moment.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This is a serious question I am not being a smart arse.

Do guys like Watts that have played a hand full of games and at best been average

get paid 200 big ones a year?

Past performance is but one issue under consideration when negotiating new contracts for listed players.

[Red Sox 2]

Not a pot shot at you old dee as I am sure it is just an enquiry but I'm with Jaded on the topic of remuneration of players.

I understand people wanting to know and making demands when players performance is not up to scratch but really, how many do you think run around and drop marks or slip over and think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

The figures people quote, other than media 'at times' are most likely not even close. There is an amount that clubs need to get to so in some cases, ie Melbourne some players are probably getting over the odds, others ie Geelong are probably getting unders.

I know I don't sit at my desk all day thinking what I just made in the last hour, maybe because I would feel guilty about my time spent on Demonland etc!

[old dee 23,787]

Not a pot shot at you old dee as I am sure it is just an enquiry but I'm with Jaded on the topic of remuneration of players.

I understand people wanting to know and making demands when players performance is not up to scratch but really, how many do you think run around and drop marks or slip over and think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

The figures people quote, other than media 'at times' are most likely not even close. There is an amount that clubs need to get to so in some cases, ie Melbourne some players are probably getting over the odds, others ie Geelong are probably getting unders.

I know I don't sit at my desk all day thinking what I just made in the last hour, maybe because I would feel guilty about my time spent on Demonland etc!

So what do you think he will get? I honestly have no idea.

Is $200k high low or about right?

PS I am sure he does not think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

[Red Sox 2]

So what do you think he will get? I honestly have no idea.

Is $200k high low or about right?

PS I am sure he does not think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'?

Not sure old dee....really it is just not something I take a whole lot of notice. I think it was Rhino who probably passed on the best advice about the contract being that they would tie him up for 3 years to take pressure of him etc etc. $200-$300K sounds about right and Jack knows where he is at this stage and would accept that. Incentives etc would be built in no doubt where he could make more going forward.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

It's fine to talk about what contract we think a player should get, but talking pay packets is silly and frankly demeaning to the player.

Also, I don't think it's necessary to make a new thread about Watts every week, just as it is/was/will be unnecessary to make a new thread about Bruce, Miller and how crap our forward line, every single week.

I don't understand. What then do we talk about?

If you're annoyed at the new threads every week, maybe it's enough to say to people search for an existing thread (I wanted to see the first Watts thread crack 2000 posts), but to not talk about it just because it's been talked about a lot? Come on... it's a footy forum. There's gonna be duplications... especially when it comes to the selection of #1 picks and the playing of important players.

What else are we supposed to talk about?