Watts wrong with Whats?

[Longsufferingnomore 1,637]

I thought it was a bit of a joke when someone suggested we put Jack in the ruck, but maybe it isn't such a bad idea, he has to learn how to handle body contact and the best way to do that is facing an opposition ruckman front on. I don't think he's frightened but he has to show he can handle it and his team mates have to have confidence in him and want to kick it to him.

He still looks like a boy and he is, unfortunately, playing like one at the moment. He'll be ok, it's just a matter of time and experience, I reckon a few weeks playing second ruck will get him more involved and used to the pressure.

Talk about Carlton fools what about Mark McLures comment that Melbourne made a mistake with taking Jack Watts. Thank goodness the sense of reasoning Stan Alves) was sitting next to him. He also asked why was it that if Chris Judd could go straight into a team and play why couldn't Watts. Alves and ABC commentator (names deserts me) said that Watts was a different body build and played in a KP and those players usually dont peak until they are about 24yrs. Mark McLure is an absolute disgrace.

[45HG 1,559]

What was with his (and others) footing? Must be so disheartening for midfielders to see some of the basic errors made when they eventually get it forward.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I had a scum supporter walk past me in anger in the third when we made a comeback and knock my (previous broken) knee with a bag full of drink bottles... lucky my dad was there to hold me back from punching him in the face.

GOD I HATE CARLTON!!!!!

You probably would have got 3 weeks Jaded but it would have been worth it.

Boy they turn feral quickly on their own team, my 3 scum left at 3 qtr time because they couldn't stand what they were convinced was going to be a carlton loss. Pathetic 'supporters'.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

This is my first post on the whole Watts debate as i have not wanted to judge a player to early in their career. But what i have noticed is a real lack of urgency and intent. It is hard to compare him to other star forwards who are much more mature than him, but if you compare him to a guy like Hurley, who attacks the ball and the contest with such intent and vigor that you can't not be impressed. I have always thought the comparisons with Niknat have been unfair due to the positions they play, but ones with Hurley are not ad IMO, he is a mile behind him.

[Daz's Dee's 113]

I had a scum supporter walk past me in anger in the third when we made a comeback and knock my (previous broken) knee with a bag full of drink bottles... lucky my dad was there to hold me back from punching him in the face.

GOD I HATE CARLTON!!!!!

Ha ha good one you sound a bit fiesty Jaded, he probably deserved it! Funny we had some pretty average carlton supporters around us also (big suprise) all i could do was laugh when we got more than our fare share of "free" kicks.

Was pretty dissapointed with Watts effort today he really didnt look like he wanted to go near the ball..... like i keep saying to my mates, who continually hang [censored] on me calling Watts "the worst number 1 draft pick ever" lets all wait until he has played 50 odd games than we can judge him with out using the bloody word "potential" he will either have it or he wont!

[drdrake 3,185]

I really get annoyed when you read some of the rubbish people put on this kid. We all want him to be our forward superstar and he will be that over time. The poor bloke has come in against the Eagles, we got smashed, Port won and he played well, Geelong we got smashed and Carlton we got smashed, the three games we got smashed our ball use has been a disgrace, our inside 50m count has been low and the delivery inside 50m has been terrible. I think Jack has worked himself out of position trying to hard to get a kick and then he is spent for a little while. The more he plays at this level the more he will learn about where and when to run and work.

He is still working out what he needs to do and lets face it Bailey's game plan isn't forwarder friendly. He needs to be played deep inside the 50m arc not high up the ground, get space in front of him.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You probably would have got 3 weeks Jaded but it would have been worth it.

Boy they turn feral quickly on their own team, my 3 scum left at 3 qtr time because they couldn't stand what they were convinced was going to be a carlton loss. Pathetic 'supporters'.

LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL, Beautifull!

[Akum 2,660]

The poor bloke has come in against the Eagles, we got smashed, Port won and he played well, Geelong we got smashed and Carlton we got smashed, the three games we got smashed our ball use has been a disgrace, our inside 50m count has been low and the delivery inside 50m has been terrible.

His 3 games last year were Pies on QB, Brisbane and Dons and we got smashed each time then too. IMO at this stage in his career we can only really judge how he plays when the team does well. It's ridiculous to expect him to do well when the rest of the team is doing so badly.

[Demon Tragic 0]

The only thing wrong with Watts is that self proclaimed "experts" keep jumping on forums after only 5 AFL games and proclaim that he will be no good or should be dropped because he is going through a bad patch of form! How you go through a form slump after 5 games is beyond me! FFS people, take a deep breath and try to see what the club are doing! They know that at present he is not good enough, they are simply trying to fast track his development by pumping games into him.

Perhaps we should pay more attention to the coach when he and the administration all state that this year will focus on developing our list, pumping games into our younger players and using these games to build upon thier experience as AFL footballers. Not an unusual concept this. KPPs also take a bit of time to show thier true abilities, Nick Reiwoldt won the rising star award in his third year as a footballer! Not saying Jack is the same player as Reiwoldt, but perhaps the timeline should remembered before the doomsdayers start publishing utter diatribe about a 5 game veteran going through a form slump!

[Demon_JB 1,385]

I heard that Jack Watts recorded the fastest sprint time for a non-indigenous player. Why is it that all the time I see him play he is roaming around and watching the ball float into our forward 50 and not going up for a contestant mark, and refusing to under-utilize his fast agility?

He looks like more like he is keen on crumming the ball and hoping it falls at his feet than working for it. Occasionally he has pushed up the ground

and taken some great contested marks leading out on the wing or in the center, but we need that that inside our forward 50. We have players like Bate and Bennell who can take great leading contested marks and find him leading around our forward 50.

Also, our forward line do not have a bonding chemistry to help players out. I don't see any blocks or subtle shepherds to allow a 5 meter advantage so our key players can lead up and take marks.

In conclusion, I don't believe its Jack Watts himself that is the problem, I believe its our chemistry we have in our forward line and the way in which we deliver the ball. We will definitely see some changes over the years and need a few more pre-seasons to get the forward structure very competitive. We have done amazingly well with our back-line and midfield, we cant expect to have everything falling into our laps yet just because we have had great drafting.

[two sheds jackson 3]

The only thing wrong with Watts is that self proclaimed "experts" keep jumping on forums after only 5 AFL games and proclaim that he will be no good or should be dropped because he is going through a bad patch of form! How you go through a form slump after 5 games is beyond me! FFS people, take a deep breath and try to see what the club are doing! They know that at present he is not good enough, they are simply trying to fast track his development by pumping games into him.

You can't reward poor performances with senior games, even when you rate someone as a long-term prospect and want to get experience into them. Every player needs to know that if they do the right things they'll be rewarded, and, conversely, that nobodies untouchable and if they don't work to keep their spot, then they'll lose it.

Dunn was dropped, took it on the chin, worked his arse off in the VFL and by all reports played a brilliant game on the weekend. Watts has done nothing in his last two outings. If Watts stays in and Dunn stays out, what kind of message does that send? Where's the motivation for our less fancied players to work hard to improve themselves and prove everybody wrong if we don't even give them the opportunity? Where's the motivation for our more fancied players to be the best they can be, if they'll get games regardless?

[H_T 3,049]

What was with his (and others) footing? Must be so disheartening for midfielders to see some of the basic errors made when they eventually get it forward.

Wrong boots. Heard he went for the moulded - as did a few players including some of the Carlton players - which may have contributed to not keeping he's feet.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I heard that Jack Watts recorded the fastest sprint time for a non-indigenous player. Why is it that all the time I see him play he is roaming around and watching the ball float into our forward 50 and not going up for a contestant mark, and refusing to under-utilize his fast agility?

That's a pretty good post.

As for his camp results... I had Watts as #1 pick BEFORE I saw his results.. and when they came in all I thought was "here we go... people are going to be bringing up his 'fastest non-indigenous' stats for years to come."

DRaft camp results should be used for one thing only. To help you make a choice between two players who are evenly placed in the draft order. If you see a guy have "highest vertical leap" or "fastest sprint..." Those stats mean nothing if they're not coupled with a decent footy brain. Give me a guy who ranks 5th-10th in these stats who can find the pill 20+ times every game (Gysberts) reliably EVERY day.

Yes, there's stats that make a difference... like the beep test... but for the most part, go on what you see them do on a football field FIRST. THEN move to their draft camp results.

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

You can't reward poor performances with senior games, even when you rate someone as a long-term prospect and want to get experience into them. Every player needs to know that if they do the right things they'll be rewarded, and, conversely, that nobodies untouchable and if they don't work to keep their spot, then they'll lose it.

Dunn was dropped, took it on the chin, worked his arse off in the VFL and by all reports played a brilliant game on the weekend. Watts has done nothing in his last two outings. If Watts stays in and Dunn stays out, what kind of message does that send? Where's the motivation for our less fancied players to work hard to improve themselves and prove everybody wrong if we don't even give them the opportunity? Where's the motivation for our more fancied players to be the best they can be, if they'll get games regardless?

Totally agree, what kind of morale are we building for blokes in casey when underforming demons players are not held accountable, dropping him should be seen as part of his learning. He should only be selected again when he has a couple of standout games, not just the one.

[Adam The God 30,403]

The only thing wrong with Watts is that self proclaimed "experts" keep jumping on forums after only 5 AFL games and proclaim that he will be no good or should be dropped because he is going through a bad patch of form! How you go through a form slump after 5 games is beyond me! FFS people, take a deep breath and try to see what the club are doing! They know that at present he is not good enough, they are simply trying to fast track his development by pumping games into him.

Perhaps we should pay more attention to the coach when he and the administration all state that this year will focus on developing our list, pumping games into our younger players and using these games to build upon thier experience as AFL footballers. Not an unusual concept this. KPPs also take a bit of time to show thier true abilities, Nick Reiwoldt won the rising star award in his third year as a footballer! Not saying Jack is the same player as Reiwoldt, but perhaps the timeline should remembered before the doomsdayers start publishing utter diatribe about a 5 game veteran going through a form slump!

Well said. Wholeheartedly agree.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Wrong boots. Heard he went for the moulded - as did a few players including some of the Carlton players - which may have contributed to not keeping he's feet.

Lack of leg strength.

A 196cm player requires significant leg strength to compete body on body and to maintain balance. He does not have that leg strength yet.

However it was frustrating watching him unable to make a couple of contests.

[Guest Thomo]

Nick Reiwoldt won the rising star award in his third year as a footballer! Not saying Jack is the same player as Reiwoldt, but perhaps the timeline should remembered before the doomsdayers start publishing utter diatribe about a 5 game veteran going through a form slump!

Reiwoldt won the Rising star in his second year. He spent much of his first year injured, playing 6 games, then won the Rising star and the St Kilda Best and Fairest in his first full year.

Reiwoldt was a star at 19, not a good comparison.

[H_T 3,049]

Lack of leg strength.

A 196cm player requires significant leg strength to compete body on body and to maintain balance. He does not have that leg strength yet.

However it was frustrating watching him unable to make a couple of contests.

Agree on the leg strength and balance.

He needs to get to more contests, sometimes he looks to feed off the crumbs when not able to get there. Other times I think he should have got there and imposed himself more. It may seem like I'm accusing him of taking the easier option. I'm not, I just have high expectations... - perhaps a little too high for a 7th gamer. That is me being impatient and wanting him to fast track his own development.

Deep breath.

I think this will come eventually. It's more upstairs where it needs to happen.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

It seems there are three categories of Watts-supporters:

The first is the group who thinks he is a dud, and will never make it. They fail to spot the moments where Jack has displayed immense ability at ground level, smart kicking and good hands, evident in the West Coast and Port Adelaide games.

Then there are the people who cannot stand criticism of Watts at all. They fail to recognise his apparent lack of hunger, aggression, intensity or passion on the field (that's not to say he doesn't want it, but he sure as hell doesn't look like he wants it).

Finally, there are those who combine both, who can see his obvious talent and ability, can see that he is hampered by his lack of fitness, the fact he is only 19, the fact that the team isn't playing well, and the fact that he's played only 7 games. But at the same time, there is a pressing need for him to show more hunger, more desire and more passion on the field, given that there are players at Casey who are doing just that.

Hopefully those who fall into one of the first two categories will, sooner or later, move into the third category.

Edited June 7, 2010 by titan_uranus

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree on the leg strength and balance.

He needs to get to more contests, sometimes he looks to feed off the crumbs when not able to get there. Other times I think he should have got there and imposed himself more. It may seem like I'm accusing him of taking the easier option. I'm not, I just have high expectations... - perhaps a little too high for a 7th gamer. That is me being impatient and wanting him to fast track his own development.

Deep breath.

I think this will come eventually. It's more upstairs where it needs to happen.

I think its a mix of learning where to run on the lead and the trying to make the bezt of some appalling delivery inside 50

[jnrmac 20,154]

Reiwoldt won the Rising star in his second year. He spent much of his first year injured, playing 6 games, then won the Rising star and the St Kilda Best and Fairest in his first full year.

Reiwoldt was a star at 19, not a good comparison.

This is effectively his first year.

[Tricky 341]

I think its a mix of learning where to run on the lead and the trying to make the bezt of some appalling delivery inside 50

I wonder if there is a drill for that

[Guest Thomo]

This is effectively his first year.

Whose? I was correting a misake often made with Reiwoldt, I'm pretty sure it is not his first year.

If you are meaning Watts, it is is second year.

[jacey 333]

I heard that Jack Watts recorded the fastest sprint time for a non-indigenous player. Why is it that all the time I see him play he is roaming around and watching the ball float into our forward 50 and not going up for a contestant mark, and refusing to under-utilize his fast agility?

He has shown none of that speed on the field but how much of that is due to his lack stamina. His engine is not league standard which gets heavily exposed against the good teams. Walker was always going to run Watts to the ground and make Watts look worse as the day wore on. No doubt conditions didn't help but Watts needs to get miles into those legs so we can see some speed, ability to get to more contest and not flop everytime he gets a nudge.

[old dee 23,870]

It seems there are three categories of Watts-supporters:

The first is the group who thinks he is a dud, and will never make it. They fail to spot the moments where Jack has displayed immense ability at ground level, smart kicking and good hands, evident in the West Coast and Port Adelaide games.

Then there are the people who cannot stand criticism of Watts at all. They fail to recognise his apparent lack of hunger, aggression, intensity or passion on the field (that's not to say he doesn't want it, but he sure as hell doesn't look like he wants it).

Finally, there are those who combine both, who can see his obvious talent and ability, can see that he is hampered by his lack of fitness, the fact he is only 18, the fact that the team isn't playing well, and the fact that he's played only 7 games. But at the same time, there is a pressing need for him to show more hunger, more desire and more passion on the field, given that there are players at Casey who are doing just that.

Hopefully those who fall into one of the first two categories will, sooner or later, move into the third category.

Well Titan you have pretty much covered the situation with your comment. Given your three options I unfortunately fall into group 1. I don't want it to be the case I hope you are right I hope in two years time you can call me a dill.

I dont think at this stage he should in the senior side.

When I see that he kicked four goals for Casey or he is listed in the top 3 players in a game I will agree it is time to play in the seniors.

Until then he should be at Casey.