Alternative Jumpers - St.K v Ess

[Vagg 2,422]

Collingwoods white jumper avoids clash's with St Kilda, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Essendon, Carlton....any more you need?

They are fortunate to not have to change their jumpers too much. But at least they meet the AFL Guidelines.

Agreed!

[Vagg 2,422]

This is not my design..but i would prefer this as well

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t275/crow28_album/AFL%20Clash%20Strip%20Concepts/Melbourne3.jpg

I'm personally not over fussed with this one. Think I prefer what we've currently got, or your earlier one, above.

[H_T 2,941]

Pizz off to a Bumbers forum Ash. You are beginning to be a pest.

Pull your head in. Ash is welcome here and provides welcome discussion.

[Binmans PA 26,513]

I am more of a traditionalist and prefer this version myself. I would be more happy with this kind of jumper than our current away strip.

That looks amazing.

[sideshowbob 0]

I started this thread and think it's become a little misguided. I agree with Ash about the Essendon debacle - blame the AFL for approving it.

Our views about the MFC away jumper do not answer my original question of whether the AFL required St.Kilda to wear the predominantly white jumper despite being the home team. I think (and Ash, Grinter, and the majority here agree) that the home team should not be the one to change.

Edited May 18, 2010 by sideshowbob

[Ash35 425]

Collingwoods white jumper avoids clash's with St Kilda, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Essendon, Carlton....any more you need?

They are fortunate to not have to change their jumpers too much. But at least they meet the AFL Guidelines. Essendon = Fail. Your 'arrangement' with Etihad is suspect too. How is it that you still charge 17 away game members $5.00 to get into the ground? What a joke.

Pizz off to a Bumbers forum Ash. You are beginning to be a pest.

Cool, I've only been on here for 9 years, and now I'm becoming a pest.

I'm just trying to have a measured discussion about jumper clashes, and you are going off on all sorts of tangents. $5.00 charges to get into the footy? It might be a charge for a seat, as all Essendon home games at Etihad are ticketed matches. Not too sure, as I am an Essendon member with a reserved seat, it doesn't affect me. Again, if Essendon were smart enough to organise that as part of the deal, good luck to us.

Anyway "Balls", I didn't actually realise Collingwood and Melbourne jumpers ever clashed, but as you point out, I'm misinformed.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Ash35

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Pull your head in. Ash is welcome here and provides welcome discussion.

HT - With all due respect, there is a degree of repetitiveness about Ash's last few posts. The arguement keeps coming, Well blame the AFL coz they approved it nananani naa na!! Thats the vibe I was picking up from it. Essendon fans are far from rational when it comes to this issue. I am not accusing Ash of the same, but we are an MFC forum and we have given up our jumper when playing the Bombers at their home (as well as copping extra $5.00 to get into their games even with a 17 game membership) for a number of years now. As's theory is 'well you guys have one, so just wear that and we'll be sweet. We were told by the AFL we clashed with the following teams Carlton, Swans, Essendon, Dogs, Brisbane and another i can't recall. We were told that we must produce a predominantly white strip. Why MUST we and not they hmm? Gte back to the topic and answer that.

[titan_uranus 22,811]

My take on alternative jumpers is this:

If you're the home team, you wear your traditional home jumper. No exceptions. If the AFL then believes there is a clash between your home jumper and the away team's home jumper, they ensure that the away team wears an alternative strip, such that there is no clash. Prior to any season the AFL should tell each club which other clubs there may be a clash with, and it becomes the club's responsibility to design an alternative strip that works for its clashes.

There should never be an instance where the home team is forced to wear an alternate strip to their traditional one just because the away team hasn't got an alternate strip that removes the clash (examples being North Melbourne at home to Collingwood, St Kilda home to Essendon, Melbourne home to Essendon (there's a theme here, see it?)).

In this case, if Essendon's alternate strip didn't remove the clash with St Kilda, then they need a new alternate strip. Simple as that.

[Keyser Söze 0]

My take on alternative jumpers is this:

If you're the home team, you wear your traditional home jumper. No exceptions. If the AFL then believes there is a clash between your home jumper and the away team's home jumper, they ensure that the away team wears an alternative strip, such that there is no clash. Prior to any season the AFL should tell each club which other clubs there may be a clash with, and it becomes the club's responsibility to design an alternative strip that works for its clashes.

There should never be an instance where the home team is forced to wear an alternate strip to their traditional one just because the away team hasn't got an alternate strip that removes the clash (examples being North Melbourne at home to Collingwood, St Kilda home to Essendon, Melbourne home to Essendon (there's a theme here, see it?)).

In this case, if Essendon's alternate strip didn't remove the clash with St Kilda, then they need a new alternate strip. Simple as that.

Exactly, I totally agree and for the life of my I can't understand why on earth the AFL doesn't see it that way.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Keyser Söze

[Ash35 425]

In this case, if Essendon's alternate strip didn't remove the clash with St Kilda, then they need a new alternate strip. Simple as that.

Which is sort of what I'm saying. But the AFL are in charge, it's up to them to make Essendon change it. Essendon aren't going to do it off their own bat.

But I'm sounding repetitive.

Balls, I apologise if I'm not articulating my posts well enough, cos a quote like this from you "As's theory is 'well you guys have one, so just wear that and we'll be sweet."obviously shows that either you aren't actually reading what I am posting, or I'm not getting my message across clearly enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

At the risk of being repetitive, I'll try just one more time.

People here, and I tend to agree, seem to think that the AFL approved "fat sash" jumper doesn't really differ enough from Melbournes traditional jumper. So come the Round 15 match, when Essendon is wearing that jumper and Melbourne by rights are wearing the traditional strip, we could still be faced with a jumper clash. The facts of the situation are, a new Essendon away jumper isn't going to be created before then. So to stop all the confusion and post game whinging from any parties, how about both teams wear away jumpers, and the AFL make sure that next season, and going forward, Essendon do have a better away jumper.

Or Melbourne can draw lines in the sand, and stand their ground, and when James Frawley handballs to Alwyn Davey for a goal cos he thought it was Aaron, everyone can complain again.

Essendon should have been made to come up with a better away jumper, agreed.

Melbourne should have every right to wear a traditional jumper for home games, agreed.

But until the AFL step in, and force a change, Melbourne home games involving Essendon will always cause problems.

To answer one of your other points.

Not sure the away jumper has to be predominately white. Richmonds has extra yellow I think. Essendons obviously has more red. If Melbourne were told it needs more white, take it up with the AFL. Again, like Collingwood, I have never had an issue with Melbourne/Sydney games if the Swans have their red shorts, and Melbourne the blue shorts. Not sure how an away jumper would be needed, but again, we are dealing with the muppets at AFL house.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Ash35

[red&blue&true 0]

Which is sort of what I'm saying. But the AFL are in charge, it's up to them to make Essendon change it. Essendon aren't going to do it off their own bat.

But I'm sounding repetitive.

Balls, I apologise if I'm not articulating my posts well enough, cos a quote like this from you "As's theory is 'well you guys have one, so just wear that and we'll be sweet."obviously shows that either you aren't actually reading what I am posting, or I'm not getting my message across clearly enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

At the risk of being repetitive, I'll try just one more time.

People here, and I tend to agree, seem to think that the AFL approved "fat sash" jumper doesn't really differ enough from Melbournes traditional jumper. So come the Round 15 match, when Essendon is wearing that jumper and Melbourne by rights are wearing the traditional strip, we could still be faced with a jumper clash. The facts of the situation are, a new Essendon away jumper isn't going to be created before then. So to stop all the confusion and post game whinging from any parties, how about both teams wear away jumpers, and the AFL make sure that next season, and going forward, Essendon do have a better away jumper.

Or Melbourne can draw lines in the sand, and stand their ground, and when James Frawley handballs to Alwyn Davey for a goal cos he thought it was Aaron, everyone can complain again.

Essendon should have been made to come up with a better away jumper, agreed.

Melbourne should have every right to wear a traditional jumper for home games, agreed.

But until the AFL step in, and force a change, Melbourne home games involving Essendon will always cause problems.

To answer one of your other points.

Not sure the away jumper has to be predominately white. Richmonds has extra yellow I think. Essendons obviously has more red. If Melbourne were told it needs more white, take it up with the AFL. Again, like Collingwood, I have never had an issue with Melbourne/Sydney games if the Swans have their red shorts, and Melbourne the blue shorts. Not sure how an away jumper would be needed, but again, we are dealing with the muppets at AFL house.

because if both clubs wear their "away" jumper. Essendon win. They wont come up with another clash jumper they'll just expect everything to be fine because we rolled over this time. Roll over once, and people expect it from you.

Its Melbournes home game, we will run out in our navy blue jumper with the red V. if there is a clash and the AFL is made to look amateur SO BE IT.

Because when the AFL approved Essendons clash strip it was amateur hour.

They can reap what they sow. When they cop a blasting in the media for not being tougher on Essendon about alternate strips and do something about it we might finally see Collingwood & Essendon come out of the dark ages and realise what applies to the rest of the clubs in the competition applies to them.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Which is sort of what I'm saying. But the AFL are in charge, it's up to them to make Essendon change it. Essendon aren't going to do it off their own bat.

But I'm sounding repetitive.

Balls, I apologise if I'm not articulating my posts well enough, cos a quote like this from you "As's theory is 'well you guys have one, so just wear that and we'll be sweet."obviously shows that either you aren't actually reading what I am posting, or I'm not getting my message across clearly enough. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

At the risk of being repetitive, I'll try just one more time.

People here, and I tend to agree, seem to think that the AFL approved "fat sash" jumper doesn't really differ enough from Melbournes traditional jumper. So come the Round 15 match, when Essendon is wearing that jumper and Melbourne by rights are wearing the traditional strip, we could still be faced with a jumper clash. The facts of the situation are, a new Essendon away jumper isn't going to be created before then. So to stop all the confusion and post game whinging from any parties, how about both teams wear away jumpers, and the AFL make sure that next season, and going forward, Essendon do have a better away jumper.

Or Melbourne can draw lines in the sand, and stand their ground, and when James Frawley handballs to Alwyn Davey for a goal cos he thought it was Aaron, everyone can complain again.

Essendon should have been made to come up with a better away jumper, agreed.

Melbourne should have every right to wear a traditional jumper for home games, agreed.

But until the AFL step in, and force a change, Melbourne home games involving Essendon will always cause problems.

To answer one of your other points.

Not sure the away jumper has to be predominately white. Richmonds has extra yellow I think. Essendons obviously has more red. If Melbourne were told it needs more white, take it up with the AFL. Again, like Collingwood, I have never had an issue with Melbourne/Sydney games if the Swans have their red shorts, and Melbourne the blue shorts. Not sure how an away jumper would be needed, but again, we are dealing with the muppets at AFL house.

You keep saying Ash that Essendon will not be forced to come up with another jumper. I ca't remember specific example, but I am pretty sure there is a precedent for this. A club, may have been the pies were told to wear alternate strip or else. Essendon have plenty of time IMO to formulate a solution. Wear your silver training jumpers. I don't really care. Its the AFL and Essendons problem to fix. Melbourne aren't required to fix any problems. If the AFL don't stand up other clubs will become restless. The issue is growing. Not just about essendon but jumper/uniform clashes. See Al Clarkson's rant.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

because if both clubs wear their "away" jumper. Essendon win. They wont come up with another clash jumper they'll just expect everything to be fine because we rolled over this time. Roll over once, and people expect it from you.

Its Melbournes home game, we will run out in our navy blue jumper with the red V. if there is a clash and the AFL is made to look amateur SO BE IT.

Because when the AFL approved Essendons clash strip it was amateur hour.

They can reap what they sow. When they cop a blasting in the media for not being tougher on Essendon about alternate strips and do something about it we might finally see Collingwood & Essendon come out of the dark ages and realise what applies to the rest of the clubs in the competition applies to them.

Finally some sense!!!

[Nasher 33,166]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 'clash' jumpers are registered at the beginning of the year and do not / are not allowed to change during the year. The AFL can tell a side to wear its 'other' jumper for a specific clash, but they cannot tell a side to invent a new jumper throughout the year. Therefore Ash's points are all valid, and fair IMO.

[titan_uranus 22,811]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 'clash' jumpers are registered at the beginning of the year and do not / are not allowed to change during the year. The AFL can tell a side to wear its 'other' jumper for a specific clash, but they cannot tell a side to invent a new jumper throughout the year. Therefore Ash's points are all valid, and fair IMO.

This is correct.

It doesn't detract from the overall problem though, which is that Essendon has long refused to find an alternate strip that removes clashes with other clubs, including us, and that when the game comes around there will either be a clash or we'll be wearing an alternate strip, which is unfair on us, the home team.

[Nasher 33,166]

It doesn't detract from the overall problem though, which is that Essendon has long refused to find an alternate strip that removes clashes with other clubs, including us, and that when the game comes around there will either be a clash or we'll be wearing an alternate strip, which is unfair on us, the home team.

Absolutely - but what it does mean is that there's only two options, both outlined by Ash

1) Force _both_ sides to wear their 'clash' strip, as the only way to avoid a clash within the current AFL rules is for Melbourne to wear their clash jumper. Melbourne supporters can then piss and moan about not being allowed to wear the traditional jumper.

2) Suck it up and accept there will be a clash. Melbourne and Essendon supporters alike can then piss and moan about the clash.

The AFL need to intervene and force Essendon to come up with a better clash jumper, but that's for next year at the earliest. For this year we're unfortunately stuck in this situation, and option 1) is the only feasible solution IMO - but for this year there's no solution that doesn't suck for us.

Edit: I know I'm preaching to the converted to you t_u and that you understand the problem - this post I guess is more for the less perceptive posters who don't seem to get the point.

[red&blue&true 0]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 'clash' jumpers are registered at the beginning of the year and do not / are not allowed to change during the year. The AFL can tell a side to wear its 'other' jumper for a specific clash, but they cannot tell a side to invent a new jumper throughout the year. Therefore Ash's points are all valid, and fair IMO.

And therein lies the problem, the AFL should have seen this coming, and gone back to Essendon and told them their clash jumper is not acceptable.

That they didnt is not our problem nor should it be made our problem by directing us to wear a clash jumper at our home game.

And when you say "are not allowed" to be changed during the year? who do you think allows/disallows these things. The AFL has shown in the past they are capable of changing rules midseason, see the Sydney/North 19 man fiasco, this is the AFLs problem, and the AFL can easily fix it.

[titan_uranus 22,811]

Absolutely - but what it does mean is that there's only two options, both outlined by Ash

1) Force _both_ sides to wear their 'clash' strip, as the only way to avoid a clash within the current AFL rules is for Melbourne to wear their clash jumper. Melbourne supporters can then [censored] and moan about not being allowed to wear the traditional jumper.

2) Suck it up and accept there will be a clash. Melbourne and Essendon supporters alike can then [censored] and moan about the clash.

The AFL need to intervene and force Essendon to come up with a better clash jumper, but that's for next year at the earliest. For this year we're unfortunately stuck in this situation, and option 1) is the only feasible solution IMO - but for this year there's no solution that doesn't suck for us.

Schwab on twitter has said we'll be wearing the home jumper. But I'll bet we'll end up in the white one, just like St Kilda on Sunday. I'd rather us wear the white jumper than wear the home one if we have learnt anything from the Bulldogs match. As Ash said, we don't need to have players handpassing to Alwyn instead of Aaron.

But it's clear what has to happen in the future.

Edit: I know I'm preaching to the converted to you t_u and that you understand the problem - this post I guess is more for the less perceptive posters who don't seem to get the point.

You can keep preaching, Nasher. I like your sermons.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

But it's clear what has to happen in the future.

If we give in and wear white we will convince they AFL that all is sweet cherry pie. They will take no action and it will be expected that we will forgoe our jumper each time we meet The Scum. Make no mistake.

So in essence nothing will be achieved, The Dons go on the merry way without following the same rules as all other 15 clubs have.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Balls_Grinter_14

[red&blue&true 0]

Schwab on twitter has said we'll be wearing the home jumper. But I'll bet we'll end up in the white one, just like St Kilda on Sunday. I'd rather us wear the white jumper than wear the home one if we have learnt anything from the Bulldogs match. As Ash said, we don't need to have players handpassing to Alwyn instead of Aaron.

But it's clear what has to happen in the future.

Whys it assumed that it would be us making an error?

Whos to say it wont be an Essendon player making the mistake costing them the game because of a clash.

How sweet would that victory be, the scum losing because they were too arrogant to have a proper clash strip. (thumbs up)

Either way id rather wear our home guernsey & clash, because unless the issue is highlighted it will just be swept away and we'll be revisiting this at every future home game against Essendon

[Nasher 33,166]

Whys it assumed that it would be us making an error?

I don't know about you but I'm not going to be all that upset if the Essendon players keep handballing it to our blokes.

That was a bit of a silly question really.

[red&blue&true 0]

I don't know about you but I'm not going to be all that upset if the Essendon players keep handballing it to our blokes.

Nor I, doubly so because Essendon supporters themselves will then see sense and lobby their club to fall in line with a credible clash strip

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

lobby their club to fall in line with a credible clash strip

Speaking of which, do you like our current design.

[red&blue&true 0]

Speaking of which, do you like our current design.

Put it this way, i wouldnt pay money for one.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Put it this way, i wouldnt pay money for one.

Yeh, I think that is the problem R&b&t. I certainly wouldn't want one. I don't see many kids wearing them either. Not a great seller.

On the broader topic of Clash Jumpers, if the AFL are serious about pushing all clubs to have a clash jumper, I think it is importnat that we come up with a design that people are going to be proud to put on their backs. We all know that the EPL clubs have to do it and some of the away strips are pretty good. Same in the NFL. All teams in that comp have a light uniform and a dark uniform. NBA the same. However I think it is important, as has proved to be the case in those sports, to have the 'alternate' jumper resemble that of the original. I think where ours falls down is that it is too modern in its design. We are a traditional club. Therefore our attire should be traditional. I also think 'Constipated Demon' scares the children.

I still think that if we came up with something like below we would see more and identify mo0re with the jumper.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Balls_Grinter_14