Geelongs 3rd party deal with ablett

[red&blue&true 0]

First Judd at Carlton now Ablett at Geelong, other clubs are exploiting these 3rd party deals to lure/keep superstar players, Its no co-incidence that hes getting offered this role within a few days of their president pleading for help paying him, but what about us at Melbourne could we keep up if we developed a champion team or would we be bound to what we can actually pay players in the cap and lose players to clubs with rich supporters organising 3rd party deals that we couldnt compete with much like clubs cant compete with the GC and their open chequebook.

What sort of clout do you think Melbourne has compared to other clubs to exploit this salary cap loophole and would our board be doing the wrong thing if they actually kept to the spirit of the rules in keeping to the salary cap limits

Edited March 3, 2010 by red&blue&true

[Roost It 1,434]

First Judd at Carlton now Ablett at Geelong, other clubs are exploiting these 3rd party deals to lure/keep superstar players, Its no co-incidence that hes getting offered this role within a few days of their president pleading for help paying him, but what about us at Melbourne could we keep up if we developed a champion team or would we be bound to what we can actually pay players in the cap and lose players to clubs with rich supporters organising 3rd party deals that we couldnt compete with much like clubs cant compete with the GC and their open chequebook.

What sort of clout do you think Melbourne has compared to other clubs to exploit this salary cap loophole and would our board be doing the wrong thing if they actually kept to the spirit of the rules in keeping to the salary cap limits

I reckon if we looked hard enough we'd find the people we needed. It only takes 1 benefactor to pay Scully a little extra to keep him a Demon. I wouldn't panic yet.

In saying don't panic we may well end up panicking. The system of extra payments is totally absurd and helps keep the competition uneven, combined with free trade and the result could be the death of several Victorian clubs. it's not too hard to guess who they would be.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Now i'm going to have to start a business that makes millions, just so we can keep up them.

[red&blue&true 0]

are we destined to be a minnow?

will the gap between bigger and smaller clubs continue to grow because of the salary cap meaning next to nothing.

we already get hardly any primetime exposure compared to Carlton, Essendon & Collingwood, so have trouble growing our support for the future and now we are being hit with the second punch in a combination in that we probably dont have the same kind of clout as these clubs to pay players.

[beelzebub 22,255]

again...I say it...the cap is a farce.. the AFL have to shut all this down and bring it all legitimately under the one roof of payments. And no camouflaging by calling it this or that...its a player payment...we know it they know it. If they dont I can see a couple of clubs going under in 5 years. Unable to keep up and field competitive teams.

[Keyser Söze 0]

again...I say it...the cap is a farce.. the AFL have to shut all this down and bring it all legitimately under the one roof of payments. And no camouflaging by calling it this or that...its a player payment...we know it they know it. If they dont I can see a couple of clubs going under in 5 years. Unable to keep up and field competitive teams.

The thing is, these player payments aren't being made by the club, but by supporters or their associated companies.

These payments aren't coming out of the club's pocket, so how can you police it?

It's essentially a donation by a rich benefactor, made directly to the player.

The club benefits from it only in that the player stays.

I reckon if we looked hard enough we'd find the people we needed. It only takes 1 benefactor to pay Scully a little extra to keep him a Demon. I wouldn't panic yet.

In saying don't panic we may well end up panicking. The system of extra payments is totally absurd and helps keep the competition uneven, combined with free trade and the result could be the death of several Victorian clubs. it's not too hard to guess who they would be.

Exactly - these payments aren;t being made by large supporter groups - they would be initiated by one or a few die-hard supporters that have access to this sort of money.

Collingwood would almost be at a disadvantage in this area due to its stereotypically working class supporter base.

With the stereotype of the rich, snow-going melb supporter, surely we'd be one of the clubs best-placed to find deals of this sort..?

Now to find those people...

[H_T 2,941]

The thing is, these player payments aren't being made by the club, but by supporters or their associated companies.

These payments aren't coming out of the club's pocket, so how can you police it?

It's essentially a donation by a rich benefactor, made directly to the player.

The club benefits from it only in that the player stays.

Exactly - these payments aren;t being made by large supporter groups - they would be initiated by one or a few die-hard supporters that have access to this sort of money.

Now to find those people...

Is private ownership the next step ?

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

are we destined to be a minnow?

We are minnows now

[Roost It 1,434]

The thing is, these player payments aren't being made by the club, but by supporters or their associated companies.

These payments aren't coming out of the club's pocket, so how can you police it?

It's essentially a donation by a rich benefactor, made directly to the player.

The club benefits from it only in that the player stays.

Exactly - these payments aren;t being made by large supporter groups - they would be initiated by one or a few die-hard supporters that have access to this sort of money.

Collingwood would almost be at a disadvantage in this area due to its stereotypically working class supporter base.

With the stereotype of the rich, snow-going melb supporter, surely we'd be one of the clubs best-placed to find deals of this sort..?

Now to find those people...

With the amount of cash raised by the DD program you'd suggest that the right Melbourne supporter/s would be found. We can't escape the fact that if we don't grow this club significantly over the next 15 years then players will start to choose the bigger, more powerful clubs, because when it's all said and done that's where the money is. The only way to do that is to win premierships and more than one. I hope Dean Bailey has wide shoulders because if he looks up he'll notice quite a load.

[DeeVoted 582]

This has disaster written all over it.

I'll address 3 issues.

Team A drafts 3 young 'guns' 1 of the 3 barracked for that team. (If you go through all the club lists,you;ll be struggling to find 3 or more that actually ended up playing for a team he supported) We have Grimes / Moloney...

Eventually, even after they had dreamed of playing for a club they barracked for,they ended up elsewhere.They make new mates and once settled their favorite team,is just a soft spot. Its now a past memory. Nothing new here.

Loyality DEAD.

2: Player A gets drafted just by sheer luck,its his club of choice. So from 18 to 26 he's happy, At 26 most players are at their peak. Guess what... served 8 years,can go anywhere he likes. Manager says Team X has made an offer ..2-3 times

what your club came up with. Player says I'll happy,I'm in the mix to captain the team I barrack for. manager says to him you have had 8 years playing for 'your' team,you have been one of a very few.BUT now is the time to cash in.

Set yourself up for life. Player sees his point. Byeee

Free Trade working.

3: Players A-B-C from club y have been 'sponsored' since they were 24. They are now 30,Their time is coming to an end.They played finals most years,and were well looked after.

The club /sponsors get together, players A-B-C find themselves on the outer. But its freed up all this player payment. So club y with a bank load of money,start throwing money at 'targeted' ace players from other clubs.

If club Z cant match the offer. See Loyality.

We all know 'tanking' and payments 'under the table' were just a myth. Visygate.

Its a turkey shoot now.

[Roost It 1,434]

This has disaster written all over it.

Sadly you are correct. The only thing we can do about it is start winning. I'm thinking that this is just around the corner.

[beelzebub 22,255]

Police it ?? All payments must be divulged eventually to the Taxman. Theres no hiding from him. Whether a payment is by the club or on behalf of the club they ( payments ) only exist as a result of the player being a player. These payments wouldnt exist if say Ablett wasnt an gun AFL player.

If the AFL doesnt tighten it all up it will be open season...it almost is as shown by some clubs. "Ambassadorial roles"....what a load of phosphate !!!

[Tatu 416]

The thing is, these player payments aren't being made by the club, but by supporters or their associated companies.

With the stereotype of the rich, snow-going melb supporter, surely we'd be one of the clubs best-placed to find deals of this sort..?

Now to find those people...

Who really knows what happens behind closed doors or were the money comes from?

At the moment salary cap issues don't effect MFC, who are only paying around 92% of it.

MFC would definatly have the right supporter base, for deals like these.

We have been using that supporter base for Debt-Demolition.

[Roost It 1,434]

Who really knows what happens behind closed doors or were the money comes from?

At the moment salary cap issues don't effect MFC, who are only paying around 92% of it.

MFC would definatly have the right supporter base, for deals like these.

We have been using that supporter base for Debt-Demolition.

In the end the taxman will need to know so policing it would be easy. We just need the AFL to employ a Sheriff. Oh and actually give a [censored] about the integrity of the competition. The more i think about this the more I think it needs a supporter backlash via petitions etc. to make the AFL act. We need a good lawyer to draft it up then it's people power time. I would suggest that most club Presidents already know it's wrong, well except for Carlton but seriously, they are fast becoming the joke of the competition.

[Sir Why You Little 34,685]

This is what i spoke of last week. The MFC has got to sort it self out Right Now in terms of what it is.

Are we going to get kicked around or are we going to compete. Player Payments are not going away like it or not.

Winning is the only way to climb the ladder-the idea of a 5-10 year survival plan..HA! Forget it.

We must start winning games in 2010 or else we will die a painful but rather quick Death.

The AFL want the 2 new Teams to be competitive, what happens to us, the AFL will accept.

Time to Wake Up Demons or Die.

[DeeVoted 582]

Is private ownership the next step ?

Scary...

shares / the stock market

May start sleeping with the light on. :[

[Wolfmother 182]

Sadly Melbourne are pretty well placed if 3rd party payments enter the system as wealthy individuals of the club are very common compared to Geelong.

We have been fined and had draft picks taken away for breaching the cap ourselves so we aren't clean on the issue.

It will be disappointing if paying outside the gap becomes common as it means you buy a premiership but third party payments are pretty common.

Scully is already one of the 114 players that have deals outside the club/cap

[Roost It 1,434]

Sadly Melbourne are pretty well placed if 3rd party payments enter the system as wealthy individuals of the club are very common compared to Geelong.

We have been fined and had draft picks taken away for breaching the cap ourselves so we aren't clean on the issue.

It will be disappointing if paying outside the gap becomes common as it means you buy a premiership but third party payments are pretty common.

Scully is already one of the 114 players that have deals outside the club/cap

What deal does Scully have?

[Keyser Söze 0]

Scully is already one of the 114 players that have deals outside the club/cap

???

That's a big call - what have you heard?

Although, I can hardly say it surprises me...

[Keyser Söze 0]

This has disaster written all over it.

I'll address 3 issues.

Team A drafts 3 young 'guns' 1 of the 3 barracked for that team. (If you go through all the club lists,you;ll be struggling to find 3 or more that actually ended up playing for a team he supported) We have Grimes / Moloney...

Eventually, even after they had dreamed of playing for a club they barracked for,they ended up elsewhere.They make new mates and once settled their favorite team,is just a soft spot. Its now a past memory. Nothing new here.

Loyality DEAD.

2: Player A gets drafted just by sheer luck,its his club of choice. So from 18 to 26 he's happy, At 26 most players are at their peak. Guess what... served 8 years,can go anywhere he likes. Manager says Team X has made an offer ..2-3 times

what your club came up with. Player says I'll happy,I'm in the mix to captain the team I barrack for. manager says to him you have had 8 years playing for 'your' team,you have been one of a very few.BUT now is the time to cash in.

Set yourself up for life. Player sees his point. Byeee

Free Trade working.

3: Players A-B-C from club y have been 'sponsored' since they were 24. They are now 30,Their time is coming to an end.They played finals most years,and were well looked after.

The club /sponsors get together, players A-B-C find themselves on the outer. But its freed up all this player payment. So club y with a bank load of money,start throwing money at 'targeted' ace players from other clubs.

If club Z cant match the offer. See Loyality.

We all know 'tanking' and payments 'under the table' were just a myth. Visygate.

Its a turkey shoot now.

Not sure I fully understand or agree with your scenarios.

At the very least, these 3 are only a few of the infinite possibilities.

Loyalty to a team in terms of who you supported as a kid is overrated - kids with a chance to make it learn very quickly not to get attached emotionally to any one club.

[Disco Demons 92]

melb has some very rich members,,,there is no doubt in my mind if we had a premiership team they would come out to support us.

everyone likes to back a winner,,,something we are not at the moment...ablett is a winner

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

The whole thing is a joke - and not a funny one. What is the point of a salary cap if it can be circumvented as easily as this. Melbourne Devils or the Footscray Darwinians anybody?

[DeeVoted 582]

Not sure I fully understand or agree with your scenarios.

Ok, hope this helps.

1: Refers to Draft. As you know its a lottery. If a player has aspirations to play with his 'beloved' team, he has 'buckleys'. Same applies if he didnt want to go to another state. Too bad. Its now rare they get to go to their club of choice.

The draft was there to give the lower teams help (you know that) The draft was a great idea,but loyality went out the window.

2: Clubs began to treat players as cattle. Then players realised they could make more $$ elsewhere. 2-way street.

The 2 combined, equals I dont care where I end up,I will play football with whoever then go to the highest bidder if the situation presents itself. (not always the case)

The salary Cap, was there to prevent wealthy clubs paying huge amounts to players (you also know that)

That is/was a good thing. Poorer and less successful clubs benefited. (wasnt perfect)

The 3rd = if a club is paying (ie 3 players a HUGE amount + a corporate / supporter group, (whatever they go by) is matching the clubs offer to those same players,

When they retire/delist these players, the $$ can now to used to entice / poach whoever they think will suit their requirements. The richer or/and more backers they have behind the scenes,the more $$ they can throw around.

Probably better for all involved to meet at AFL House then hold an auction.

The 8 year free trade along with outside the salary cap payments, just undermines what they didnt want to happen.

The richer clubs get stronger,the poorer clubs struggle.

Now its out in the open, the gloves are coming off.

Loyalty to a team in terms of who you supported as a kid is overrated - kids with a chance to make it learn very quickly not to get attached emotionally to any one club.

Agreed! I was hoping we could get Dylan Grimes to join his brother. But it didnt work out that way. The club targeted other players before him. He is a diehard Melb supporter,ended up with the Tigers, He'll make the most of his situation.

[Wolfmother 182]

I think Scully has two deals but I know he definately has a boot sponsor. It was organised by his management and has nothing to do with the club (Most likely Trengove has one). The bloke is only in the game for ten years so should be able to seize the opportunity to generate as much income as possible. Most of the 114 third party deals are just that, appearances on TV or Radio, modelling clothes/sporting goods, the deals are because they are AFL players rather than anything to do with MFC.

The problem with third party payments is when the deals aren't at market value and/or the club gets the deal that would only be provided to them if they play for their club. Ablett getting paid 300K by cotton on to model their clothes is market value but if the same deal isn't on the table if he went to GC then it becomes an issue that the AFL needs to address.

[45HG 1,539]

Guys at my footy club used to have boot sponsors...what's the big deal?