At 15 min mark of the last BM's stats are 4 handballs.

4 hand balls in 3.5 Q's of footy.

your visy money at work!

.... carlton have no forward set up whatsoever .....

Sounds like a club I know and love.... I'll wait until tomorrow and the rest of the year to pop some corks on that.

After watching that game you'd have to wonder whether Brock will ever be able to compete at the top level again. He's so slow and the game is so fast. Looks like more inspired work from Dean Bailey. He wanted Brock out and snared pick 11. carlton are fast becoming a joke and I for one am enjoying the laugh. I can't tell you what they are cooking but I can tell you they are stirring it with another wooded spoon! It might not come this year but it's coming! Is Jordan Gysberts better than Brock. I'll bet my brand new Imac on it.

I know it's early days and everything but there were some worrying signs for both sides whose skills were quite sloppy. The only redeeming feature is that, apart from last night's game where the skills of both teams were passable and Hawthorn's performance, we really haven't seen much quality footy so far this year.

Brocky hasn't picked up any pace. His opponent Brett Kirk is usually no speedster but he looked like Usain Bolt relative to Chook tonight. I don't think Robert Warnock showed that he will justify his $400k price tag on tonight's performance.

The players I liked the most tonight were the young Sydney pair Jetta and Rohan which indicates that clubs should think twice before giving up first round draft picks.

Agree with WJ on most points. I'm not entirely sold on Warnock. He was decent, but I don't see him as a star yet. Still, he's young. There is potential there.

I was thrilled by the lack of forwards in this game, and by the poor skills. While Sydney have Bradshaw and White to come in and kick goals, Carlton really don't have anything unless you count that Irish guy who can't kick. I think Shane Crawford might have to print a retraction looking at the way these two teams played.

I couldn't care less that he didn't shake hands, when the game is in progress you opponent is your enemy, you shake hands at the end

I DO care however that he said he would be a Melbourne player for life and walked out, then took a couple of cracks at us in the media

It appears though that he is well and truly stuffed, and we could have another genius 'Grimes type' trade to go under Bailey's belt

It also looks like Carlton might already be heading back down, one finals appearance after missing the September nine years running

Just the NAB though

As much as i loved watching Carlton play terrible football tonight, I think we should perhaps hold our criticism, at least until the of a certain game tomorrow.

I believe the difference between Neitz not shaking Maxwell's hand and Brock not shaking Kirk's hand is that Kirk is and always has been a much better footballer than Brock. When a champion of the game wishes you the best with a handshake and you refuse, you're either telling him he's a dog, or that you think he's beneath you. I don't support either of the acts mentioned, but I think Brock's effort is embellished with some lack of perspective.

Carlton looked a bit 'Big hammer, little tack' to me. Their rotten culture that embraced Fevola's running rampant until he had to be let go is about to really hurt them. Wouldn't put counterfeit on them to make the finals.

I didn't watch the game, as I have no interest in seeing McLean in a Carlton jumper, but I got this text from my best friend who is a life long Carlton member:

"Colgate (her clever nickname for him), has done absolutely nothing tonight. Thanks for nothing [censored]"

I wrote back "suck on it, and thanks for pick 11" B)

I didn't watch the game, as I have no interest in seeing McLean in a Carlton jumper, but I got this text from my best friend who is a life long Carlton member:

"Colgate (her clever nickname for him), has done absolutely nothing tonight. Thanks for nothing [censored]"

I wrote back "suck on it, and thanks for pick 11" B)

HaHa! My Neighbour a rabid Carlton Supporter has been noticeably very quiet this evening, laughed at me when i said pick 11 was a bargain last year.

Pity CJ wasn't playing for them as well tonight!

The handshake would have improved his stats by 20 %

The handshake would have improved his stats by 20 %

Comment of the Night....Superb!

Mclean shook his hand at the end of the match. He doesn't have to at the start. Neitz did the same thing on his 300th.

Brock did everything he could for the demons, he decided it wasn't the best place for him and did the best for us again by making sure we got compensated. I've never heard or read anything from him ever bad mouthing the club.

And it was a NAB cup match. he played bad. So what? Let's wait until after the first round at least before claiming we have won the trade. Gysberts hasn't even played yet!

As many people have stated, there is no rule to say you have to shake hands, it is up to the individual.

Does that make him any worse a person? I dont think so.

Some people get "white line fever" when they enter the field, and the most mind mannered man becomes a ruthless/angry player.

He was focussed on the gme and did not want to do it, so thats his choice.

And like any other TV/Radio coverage they decided to harp on it because the standard of the game was so bad!!! There was nothing else to talk about so they chose that.

In regards to his game, it was only one game. Why people choose to write off or write up people after 1 game is beyond me. Give the player 10 games and then you have some idea, give him a couple of seasons and then you can really justify your criticism.

Mclean shook his hand at the end of the match. He doesn't have to at the start. Neitz did the same thing on his 300th.

Brock did everything he could for the demons, he decided it wasn't the best place for him and did the best for us again by making sure we got compensated.

The fact is he wanted out because the writing was on the wall. Bailey had made it clear that he wanted pace through the midfield. Our FD went hunting for a high draft pick and Carlton obliged. Our club handled the situation beautifully. I have no problem with Brock and don't care whether he shakes Kirk's hand or not. I do know that that drive to Casey he found so tough is probably looking quite good right now.

The fact is he wanted out because the writing was on the wall. Bailey had made it clear that he wanted pace through the midfield. Our FD went hunting for a high draft pick and Carlton obliged. Our club handled the situation beautifully. I have no problem with Brock and don't care whether he shakes Kirk's hand or not. I do know that that drive to Casey he found so tough is probably looking quite good right now.

No, it's not fact at all. The details surrounding Brocks departure are still a mystery. Officially Brock decided that he didn't want to play for us, and he was traded. I listened and read all the interviews Brock had after being traded and he was very careful not to bag the club out and dodged giving a reason for his change of heart.

He was then asked about Casey fields and gave an honest answer. He lives on the other side of the city, he didn't like the drive.

As for the need for pace in the midfield. We picked up gysberts with the pick we got for him. Gysberts is not a fast paced player.

No, it's not fact at all. The details surrounding Brocks departure are still a mystery. Officially Brock decided that he didn't want to play for us, and he was traded. I listened and read all the interviews Brock had after being traded and he was very careful not to bag the club out and dodged giving a reason for his change of heart.

He was then asked about Casey fields and gave an honest answer. He lives on the other side of the city, he didn't like the drive.

As for the need for pace in the midfield. We picked up gysberts with the pick we got for him. Gysberts is not a fast paced player.

Brock is too slow for the modern game. Carlton would be best sticking him in the forward pocket.

The handshake would have improved his stats by 20 %

Gold!

Mclean shook his hand at the end of the match. He doesn't have to at the start. Neitz did the same thing on his 300th.

Brock did everything he could for the demons, he decided it wasn't the best place for him and did the best for us again by making sure we got compensated. I've never heard or read anything from him ever bad mouthing the club.

And it was a NAB cup match. he played bad. So what? Let's wait until after the first round at least before claiming we have won the trade. Gysberts hasn't even played yet!

Good post. I thought it was ordinary in not shaking hands with Kirk especially as it was his first match for the Blues and only a NAB cup game, but that doesn't make him some sort of evil person.

At worst I thought it was a lack of judgment. We move on. He gave us his all and we were compensated for his departure, he doesn't deserve the bagging. He is not a king hitter or a kicker so he should be left alone to finish his career with the scum club he joined.

No, it's not fact at all. The details surrounding Brocks departure are still a mystery. Officially Brock decided that he didn't want to play for us, and he was traded. I listened and read all the interviews Brock had after being traded and he was very careful not to bag the club out and dodged giving a reason for his change of heart.

He was then asked about Casey fields and gave an honest answer. He lives on the other side of the city, he didn't like the drive.

As for the need for pace in the midfield. We picked up gysberts with the pick we got for him. Gysberts is not a fast paced player.

Bailey had been using him to little effect in the forward pocket. Bailey knew his time as an AFL player was up when he broke his ankle (maybe even before) the club knew this and were very pleased to see him walk for pick 11. In steps Brett Ratten who is fast becoming the next ex AFL coach who snapped too quickly at the bait that was Brock. The fact is Brock knew his time at Melbourne was over and he and the club made an amicable split.

A few other facts relating to the trade.

The club was stoked that it got pick 11.

Brock thought he was going to a club on the up with smarter facilities and better prospects. Oops.

Brock didn't like driving to casey. Let's hope he enjoys the drive when the Bullants play casey.

Ratten will be lucky to make it to 2011. Chris Johnson anyone.

Bailey didn't see brock through the rose coloured glasses that some here did and was more than happy to see him go. He's too slow both by foot and by reflex.

Brock will be lucky to be playing AFL in 2011

Chris Judd also chose poorly.

I am in no way am bagging Brock, I'm just calling it like i see it. And I have a certain distaste for all things carlton.

I have no problems with Brock not wanting to shake Kirk's hand. I'm

Cetainly not going to start slanging mud at Brock just because he's moved to Carltank. If he

was still playing for us 95% of people would be defending him.

He did look very slow last night and seemed to be running in circles without getting involved in

the play. I hope he has some impact and isn't dropped so that I can see Moloney smash him when we play them.

Gysberts is going to be a player too he's tall for a midfielder when he fills out he will be elite.

I have no problems with Brock not wanting to shake Kirk's hand. I'm

Cetainly not going to start slanging mud at Brock just because he's moved to Carltank. If he

was still playing for us 95% of people would be defending him.

He did look very slow last night and seemed to be running in circles without getting involved in

the play. I hope he has some impact and isn't dropped so that I can see Moloney smash him when we play them.

Gysberts is going to be a player too he's tall for a midfielder when he fills out he will be elite.

Let me get this straight. You wouldn't bag Brock but you think he's slow and runs around in circles and you hope Moloney smashes him. Interesting.

Like many around here, I also have a distaste for all things Carlton and, while I enjoy a bit of a joke at that club's expense (and of its players including Brock) when they're down, I think we're being a tad uncharitable to a bloke who was a terrific club man when he was at Melbourne. This time twelve months ago, I still held high hopes that he might become an elite player and a leader at the club. I was wrong due to a combination of factors including some of which were beyond the player's control.

A couple of points to make:

1. Gysberts might not be the fastest conveyance in the world but he's adequate for today's game style in that area and well superior to the pedestrian level that McLean has unfortunately and sadly reached - if last night is any indication, he's even slower than he was last year. For his sake, let's put it down to a bad night or the fact that he was destroyed by a superior opponent. After all, when he was recruited to the Blues, the popular view was that he would relish not having to wear a tag because other clubs would concentrate on others in their midfield like Judd and Murphy. It didn't work out that way last night but I'm sure there will be other days when he will have more freedom and other times that won't demand such a long and arduous drive as the one from Sydney Central to Blacktown (I'm assuming they passed on the opportunity to make the journey up the picturesque Paramatta River on a cruise boat); and

2. According to my spies out Carlton way, it was the Blues who initiated talks with McLean's management in the first place and this happened sooner rather than late in the season or after it was over. Given the way the game is played these days, McLean's on and off field form, the mix of players in Melbourne's midfield, the rapid advent of Jack Grimes and the imminent arrival of Scullgrove, it's not hard to work out that McLean's departure was always going to be a mutual thing.

Let me get this straight. You wouldn't bag Brock but you think he's slow and runs around in circles and you hope Moloney smashes him. Interesting.

Facts are Facts he was slow last night he was never infleuntial in the play last night and he now plays for the

opposition so I hope Moloney smashes him. Not that hard a thought process to grasp I would have thought.