Ball no longer a Saint, confirmed.

[beelzebub 22,706]

Did you expect him not to? You are giving him far to much credit.

Are you so incredulous that you think there is ANYTHING happening between Melb and Ball ?? Do you think there is any interest from Ball.. Do you agree with jarka in suggesting that simply because he hasnt SAID ( out loud ) that hes not interested in us that hes playing some cat and mouse game ? By extrapolation he hast said hes not interested in Nth, Sydney, Richmond or half a dozen other clubs ...ought they be getting al lexcited at teh prospect of a bouncing ball coming there way to ?? FFS of course not. Ball HAS spoken loud and clear.

His disinterest resonates resoundingly. There's no ambiguity about it.. he doesnt want to play for us and thats just fine. He wants to play for the Pies..he's met them... hes talked to them. But maybe we shouldnt read too much into that because there are all these 'secret negotiations" going on...

what a joke

[Jarka 767]

Jarka, I think Melbourne have played it well by giving Ball a way out.... At the moment its St Kilda or Melbourne so he might stay at St Kilda.... if he thinks he may get somewhere else he may not think St Kilda is such a great idea then put himself on the market... then we can have a chat with him and convince him to come otherwise we can just take him

Wolf, you may well be right, it's just my opinion, and I don't believe for one second that's it's gospel just because I believe it.

I personally believe that he'll stay at the Saints, but lil stinga had a point that alot of people dismissed fair too quickly imho

[timD 994]

No it didn't. If Ball can't stand St.Kilda\Ross Lyon and it is impossible for him to stay at the club and the only club that can get him is Melbourne no matter what I don't think he would be saying I don't want to go to this club but now he has the option cause Melbourne will not stand in his way. Does anyone seriously think that he will try and ruin his career by playing poor football just because he doesn't got to his desired club? I would think not or the players won't be happy cause he's there. I would have thought they would be happy to get the best players at the club which is something that we can't get because any footballer who can play a bit don't want to come to us. Only players on their last chance want to come to us.

I hope you are kidding. You should be kidding.

Just think it through - Ball is faced with several options. They include: staying and the saints; coming to melbourne; trying to stay away from melbourne and get to collingwood; trying to get to another club.

The only way to stay away from us AND leave the saints is to say that he does not want to come to us and show no interest. It has always been an option. Bailey is just recognising the reality of it. He is also recognising the reality of not seeking divisions within your own list for the sake of a pre-season draftee.

Ball is doing nothing different because of Bailey.

Bailey is playing a fairly straight bat to it all.

Everything else is hysteria.

And today's papers seem to indicate that he's leaving ths saints.Only three options left

[Jarka 767]

Are you so incredulous that you think there is ANYTHING happening between Melb and Ball ?? Do you think there is any interest from Ball.. Do you agree with jarka in suggesting that simply because he hasnt SAID ( out loud ) that hes not interested in us that hes playing some cat and mouse game ? By extrapolation he hast said hes not interested in Nth, Sydney, Richmond or half a dozen other clubs ...ought they be getting al lexcited at teh prospect of a bouncing ball coming there way to ?? FFS of course not. Ball HAS spoken loud and clear.

His disinterest resonates resoundingly. There's no ambiguity about it.. he doesnt want to play for us and thats just fine. He wants to play for the Pies..he's met them... hes talked to them. But maybe we shouldnt read too much into that because there are all these 'secret negotiations" going on...

what a joke

What he wants to do and where he ends up playing are most likely completely different. It's the nature of the draft and trade rules that the AFL operate under.

Do you think that if Scully and Trengove had their choice that they would play with Melbourne?

The pov was purely about manipulating the situation so the perception was that Ball's only choice is Melbourne if he was to leave the Saints. The point that he was initially not interested in us is irrelevent with this exercise, it's about creating a scenario where he is forced to become interested.

If you think it's all a joke and everything has already been decided then why bother continuing with the discussion. This is just some harmless discussion in the off-season, relax mate

[beelzebub 22,706]

For those that ARE missing the point Ball has not re-signed with StKilda... he could have very easily had he wanted to stay there. Seems reasonable to conclude he doesnt. Ball hasntmet with us, but has with Collingwood..so make of that what you will ( For me it means hes not coming our way )

Ball going into the ND runs this gauntlet:

1. Melbourne - wont be used for Ball

2. Melbourne - wbufB

3. Richmond - wbufB

4. Fremantle - wbufB

5. North Melbourne - wbufB

6. Sydney Swans - wbufB

7. West Coast - wbufB

8. Port Adelaide - wbufB

9. Port Adelaide - wbufB

10. Essendon - wbufB

11. Melbourne - wbufB

12. Carlton - wbufB

13. Adelaide - wbufB

14. Sydney Swans - wbufB

15. Western Bulldogs - wbufB

16. Port Adelaide.....could be used to snare Ball

17. Geelong - wbufB

18. Melbourne - wbufB

19. Richmond.... a wild card here... Ball could become a Tiger here...(lol )

20. Fremantle - wbufB

21. North Melbourne....Nth might have to think long and hard

22. West Coast - wbufB

23. West Coast - wbufB

24. Essendon...would be Essendons ideal time to snare ball

25. North Melbourne....Nth miht grab him here if still there

26. Essendon....if not 24 then at 26

27. Brisbane Lions.... dont discount the Lions

28. Geelong - wbufB

29. Adelaide - wbufB

30. Collingwood...this is Balls hope.... but he will have been bounced by now

[Guest hangon007]

For those that ARE missing the point Ball has not re-signed with StKilda... he could have very easily had he wanted to stay there. Seems reasonable to conclude he doesnt. Ball hasntmet with us, but has with Collingwood..so make of that what you will ( For me it means hes not coming our way )

Ball going into the ND runs this gauntlet:

1. Melbourne - wont be used for Ball

2. Melbourne - wbufB

3. Richmond - wbufB

4. Fremantle - wbufB

5. North Melbourne - wbufB

6. Sydney Swans - wbufB

7. West Coast - wbufB

8. Port Adelaide - wbufB

9. Port Adelaide - wbufB

10. Essendon - wbufB

11. Melbourne - wbufB

12. Carlton - wbufB

13. Adelaide - wbufB

14. Sydney Swans - wbufB

15. Western Bulldogs - wbufB

16. Port Adelaide.....could be used to snare Ball

17. Geelong - wbufB

18. Melbourne - wbufB

19. Richmond.... a wild card here... Ball could become a Tiger here...(lol )

20. Fremantle - wbufB

21. North Melbourne....Nth might have to think long and hard

22. West Coast - wbufB

23. West Coast - wbufB

24. Essendon...would be Essendons ideal time to snare ball

25. North Melbourne....Nth miht grab him here if still there

26. Essendon....if not 24 then at 26

27. Brisbane Lions.... dont discount the Lions

28. Geelong - wbufB

29. Adelaide - wbufB

30. Collingwood...this is Balls hope.... but he will have been bounced by now

Geez I would like to play chicken with you .... think we need to start talking up the possibility of taking him at either pick 11 or 18 .... let the games begin!

[45HG 1,539]

Agreed, should've been our line all along

[beelzebub 22,706]

What he wants to do and where he ends up playing are most likely completely different. It's the nature of the draft and trade rules that the AFL operate under.

well...given the way hes gone about it..yes it is. Hes not doint this very cleverly ..from this observers pov

Do you think that if Scully and Trengove had their choice that they would play with Melbourne?

am surprised you fall for this ol' chestnut. Two entirely different circumstances., both at surface level and in deeper critique.

For one....they have no real choice..and they pretty well accept that. Ball does.. Talking newbie draftees v senior player.. apples and oranges all over again..Please..get a better argument than that. As it happens both are thrilled ( by all reports) to be coming to Melbourne as they strangely enough have a more educated vision of Melbourne, its presnt and its potential. They also get toplay with some mates and respected opposition in their new team. They are actually looking forward to it...So maybe they might choose us.. because of the journey and potential. You just austomaticaly assume they wouldnt..based on ??

What many seem happy to ovelok is you wont get far with any senior player if he's press ganged.. These arent medieval times..but by all means construct the sillyness where he ( Ball ) has no choice... wake up...he always has choice..and hes not chosen us. Thats where it starts and finishes

[Jarka 767]

well...given the way hes gone about it..yes it is. Hes not doint this very cleverly ..from this observers pov

am surprised you fall for this ol' chestnut. Two entirely different circumstances., both at surface level and in deeper critique.

For one....they have no real choice..and they pretty well accept that. Ball does.. Talking newbie draftees v senior player.. apples and oranges all over again..Please..get a better argument than that. As it happens both are thrilled ( by all reports) to be coming to Melbourne as they strangely enough have a more educated vision of Melbourne, its presnt and its potential. They also get toplay with some mates and respected opposition in their new team. They are actually looking forward to it...So maybe they might choose us.. because of the journey and potential. You just austomaticaly assume they wouldnt..based on ??

What many seem happy to ovelok is you wont get far with any senior player if he's press ganged.. These arent medieval times..but by all means construct the sillyness where he ( Ball ) has no choice... wake up...he always has choice..and hes not chosen us. Thats where it starts and finishes

The evidence backs my version. Bailey gave Ball a 'get out clause' and a couple of days later it's reported in the paper that he's going for the Nov draft.

Coincidence? Perhaps. In the end none of us will ever know what really happened behind closed doors, neither does the papers. But I do think that some of us has taken all this just a bit too seriously.

Thorpe is a better fit for us anyway

Edited November 9, 2009 by Jarka

[beelzebub 22,706]

The evidence backs my version. Bailey gave Ball a 'get out clause' and a couple of days later it's reported in the paper that he's going for the Nov draft.

Bailey gave Ball a get out?? your view. Bailey gave MFC a way out..my view. To label it 'evidence' is a stretch.. as its purely a supposition on your behalf

Coincidence? Perhaps. In the end none of us will ever know what really happened behind closed doors, neither does the papers. But I do think that some of us has taken all this just a bit too seriously.

Thorpe is a better fit for us anyway

I would think eventually a truer tale of events will emerge...but we'll all be past caring. Are you suggesting ive taken this more 'serious' than good self..lol... please...youre embarassing yourself now. We all have views and state them...dont shy away now from any weight you might give.

Thorp i agree has more upside. He might be something we dont have..as opposed to Ball where we do have people to fill those positions...he was an option. Will be interesting to see ( or at least hear of ) how he trains.

[Jarka 767]

Bailey gave Ball a get out?? your view. Bailey gave MFC a way out..my view. To label it 'evidence' is a stretch.. as its purely a supposition on your behalf

I would think eventually a truer tale of events will emerge...but we'll all be past caring. Are you suggesting ive taken this more 'serious' than good self..lol... please...youre embarassing yourself now. We all have views and state them...dont shy away now from any weight you might give.

Thorp i agree has more upside. He might be something we dont have..as opposed to Ball where we do have people to fill those positions...he was an option. Will be interesting to see ( or at least hear of ) how he trains.

Don't put words into my mouth, I wasn't referring to you with that comment. I was referring to those that were carrying on because Ball apparently turned his back on us. Clearly I'm not embarrased at all by my comment.

Melbourne stated on several occasions that we were very interested in getting him, if the MFC required a way out then all they had to do was to deny that he was in a plans right from the begining, in reality we chased him hard.

[beelzebub 22,706]

Jarka..you claim evidence.. of what?? you made a statement...try backing it up. Show what was said ..and how that demostrates your assertion !

Ive put nothing your mouth mate.. you have ample opportunities to clarify then you dont.. just remulling a previous assertion..

i.e. Bailey said 'this' therefore Bailey said 'this' it supports nothing. What Bailey has said is that he ( the club ) is still keen to speak to him. That we are interested.

""Demons coach Dean Bailey said they had informed Ball of their interest in him, and would be happy for the grand final midfielder to join them on the track.

"Certainly, through his manger Paul [Connors], we've made it very clear," Bailey said on radio station SEN.

"We're in a position now that Luke can come to us for pre-season, he can make a decision now, he can start training with us, which would be fantastic."

"We haven't got to him yet, but don't worry. Luke knows exactly how keen we are" ""

What we can fairly assume is that no discussions of any meaning have transpired at all otherwise one or both parties might have said do. There is no reason for bailey ( MFC ) to be secretive had anything happened..as a simple.."we are engaged in talks and await progress etc" could be announced.. no harm, no foul.

I think "he can make a decision now, he can start training with us, which would be fantastic" with "I think if a player sat down in front of me, and said, 'I don't want to play at Melbourne', it's a short discussion," he (Bailey )said. Is a way for the club to say...stop %^&*ing us around.. put up or shut up..

The evidence...i.e. what we can rightly see or discern, is that as nothing has transpired..other than he ( Ball ) talking to all but us that he has made up his mind

The MFc needs to make no bones about admitting its chased him and has been spurned.. The way out for Melb is tojust call that spade a spade and get on with things.

Supporters would have been up in arms had not the club made some effort to entice him.

[Jarka 767]

Jarka..you claim evidence.. of what?? you made a statement...try backing it up. Show what was said ..and how that demostrates your assertion !

Ive put nothing your mouth mate.. you have ample opportunities to clarify then you dont.. just remulling a previous assertion..

i.e. Bailey said 'this' therefore Bailey said 'this' it supports nothing. What Bailey has said is that he ( the club ) is still keen to speak to him. That we are interested.

""Demons coach Dean Bailey said they had informed Ball of their interest in him, and would be happy for the grand final midfielder to join them on the track.

"Certainly, through his manger Paul [Connors], we've made it very clear," Bailey said on radio station SEN.

"We're in a position now that Luke can come to us for pre-season, he can make a decision now, he can start training with us, which would be fantastic."

"We haven't got to him yet, but don't worry. Luke knows exactly how keen we are" ""

What we can fairly assume is that no discussions of any meaning have transpired at all otherwise one or both parties might have said do. There is no reason for bailey ( MFC ) to be secretive had anything happened..as a simple.."we are engaged in talks and await progress etc" could be announced.. no harm, no foul.

I think "he can make a decision now, he can start training with us, which would be fantastic" with "I think if a player sat down in front of me, and said, 'I don't want to play at Melbourne', it's a short discussion," he (Bailey )said. Is a way for the club to say...stop %^&*ing us around.. put up or shut up..

The evidence...i.e. what we can rightly see or discern, is that as nothing has transpired..other than he ( Ball ) talking to all but us that he has made up his mind

The MFc needs to make no bones about admitting its chased him and has been spurned.. The way out for Melb is tojust call that spade a spade and get on with things.

Supporters would have been up in arms had not the club made some effort to entice him.

But we've spoken to his manager, it clearly states that.

[beelzebub 22,706]

But we've spoken to his manager, it clearly states that.

all we've said is wed like to speak to Luke.. thats it.. he hasnt returned the call. Asking them out on a date and getting them out on a date are two different things !! ( purely for analogy )

Ive never said no contact was made..only no meaningful discussion have transpired.. There is no reason for anyone to deny it. Its not a comittment to talk. Theres no benefit to pretend you havent.

[Redleg 38,436]

I think we will see an announcement that he is staying put by the end of the week.

I was wrong.

[rpfc 27,673]

I was wrong.

A lot of us were.