Settle down guys ... just hold your gun powder.

Port "fans" are in no position to bargain ... he has walked out on them .... hello ... such a shame really couldn't of happened to a nicer bunch of a$$holes.

Williams is getting a track record of shooting himself in the foot ... long may it continue and I'm happy to supply the bullets.

Rule 1 - If you dont respect your players they wont respect you.

If junior nominates us ... lets deal with it then ... until that day ... we dont have to put any of our cards on the table.

If junior doesn't nominate us ... move on ...

Burgoyne is an awesome talent, no doubt, and probably the most tantalising choice of those put forward so far. But why is he being moved on? Is he damaged goods?

He is not being moved on he is choosing to move on by the sounds of it. It is not about what we would have to offer rather convincing him to come in the first place. The rest will fall into place.

If junior nominates us ... lets deal with it then ... until that day ... we dont have to put any of our cards on the table.

If junior doesn't nominate us ... move on ...

We're in prime position. Assembling a list with an exciting future he can be part of, we should have a bucketload of cash to chuck at him, and we've got PSD #1 if Port won't play ball (in which neither Burgoyne nor Port will have any say in the matter). I don't want to just sit by and wait for him to choose us, I'd be on the phone to his manager right now , and organising flights to put on the best sell job I had ever done.

I'll be disappointed if I am forced to die wondering.

We're in prime position. Assembling a list with an exciting future he can be part of, we should have a bucketload of cash to chuck at him, and we've got PSD #1 if Port won't play ball (in which neither Burgoyne nor Port will have any say in the matter). I don't want to just sit by and wait for him to choose us, I'd be on the phone to his manager right now , and organising flights to put on the best sell job I had ever done.

I'll be disappointed if I am forced to die wondering.

I would like to go hard for him subject to fitness. It wouldn't have to be the start of WW2 with Port either - we should be able to negotiate a suitable trade but if they play hardball, that's what Pick # 1 in the PSD is all about, isn't it?

Port have learnt somewhat ..... they'll work out a trade of sorts..even if not equitable per se..better they get something than nothing

We're in prime position.

Not if he doesn't nominate us. Would you pay a player $600,000 if he didn't want to play for you?

and we've got PSD #1 if Port won't play ball (in which neither Burgoyne nor Port will have any say in the matter).

Sorry this is not correct ... 1st you must get Port to agree to the trade 2nd You must get the player to agree

If either breaks down ... would suggest he is bound for the Pre-season draft

I don't want to just sit by and wait for him to choose us, I'd be on the phone to his manager right now , and organising flights to put on the best sell job I had ever done.

I'll be disappointed if I am forced to die wondering.

I'm with you ... Melbourne is well within its rights to talk to any un-contracted players. Personally we would all be very, very disappointed in CC and the team if they didn't "have a quiet word in his ears" ... so to speak.

I agree with WJ ... "I would like to go hard for him subject to fitness."

However, lets just "hold our gun powder" ... let the games begin.

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by hangon007

No need to chase hard for Burgoyne, let him nominate a club, if it's MFC take him in the psd.

I sence a Travis Johnstone style trade here, he may cost more than he is worth.

Just out of interest how have Davey and Burgoyne become such good mates? Is it from Davey's time in S.A?

Anyway would much prefer this guy to Brian Lake. Shaun is an unbelievable football er who possesses Judd like qualities. Would immediately take the #1 tag and thus allow our young on ball brigade to develop at their own pace. Anyway lets hope him and Bailey had a special relationship back at his time at Port. Also wouldn't want to play along side Davey, Jetta, Bennell, Wonna and Jurrah anyway!

Exactly. Don't think he's ever played a half decent game with a tag. Would be ok if you got him for next to nothing but any pick in the top 20 (30 in a 'deeper' draft year) is too much imo

If Shaun Burgoyne wanted to become a Demon he wouldnt need to do anything as we have first pick in the PSD

If he wanted to go elsewhere then trading would be required

Players of his class dont grow on trees and we would be mad not to consider him pending dollars and his fitness and mindset

Could be around for 5 - 7 years and thats IMO an overlap into our premiership window

The indigineous factor cannot be understated as we have more than most clubs

I have always been against drafting anyone around the 27 age group with our current rebuilding program but Shaun Burgoyne isnt just anyone

Doing such a deal early could also adjust our thinking on who we pick 2nd in the National Draft

No need to chase hard for Burgoyne, let him nominate a club, if it's MFC take him in the psd.

I sence a Travis Johnstone style trade here, he may cost more than he is worth.

I agree with the majority of you- there is no need to chase him hard. Actually, when you look at our current list, one asks-Do we really need him.? With development, there are several young ones coming on along with McLean, Sylvia, Maloney,McDonald,Bruce,Davey etc..

We have Buckley, Blease, Strauss, Maric, Bennell,Jetta and if we remember Bailey was going to give Wonaeamirri a go in the guts as well.Along with the above, gee ,if we get Scully & possibly Trengrove/Morabito, how many can we play. Are we best to develop what we got in 2010,and trade next year or beyond. I feel we need an experienced tall forward to bring it on.

In seeing the skills of Blease and Strauss last year along with at least Scully, this year, we are going to have a bumper mix in the guts.

I would keep pick 2. Port no doubt see trengove as part of their future. The hawks will be keen. So too swans. Unless we trade someone like brock or jamar for a first rounder then use that pick. Otherwise psd pick.

pick 1 and 2 must not be traded , DB is setting us up nicely, we are a very young side, worked so hard to obtain picks lets not stuff it up

Not if he doesn't nominate us. Would you pay a player $600,000 if he didn't want to play for you?

My point is, make him an offer he can't refuse and he will nominate us. Players don't just choose clubs off the tops of their heads unless the club has already approached them and done all the hard work first. We did this with Judd and Warnock. It didn't pay off in those cases but it's what will need to happen again if we want him.

Sorry this is not correct ... 1st you must get Port to agree to the trade 2nd You must get the player to agree

If either breaks down ... would suggest he is bound for the Pre-season draft

My point was that if he goes in to the PSD, if we want him, he'll have no choice. By nominating, you have to accept whichever club picks you. Given our current position with the salary cap of having to frontload contracts to get to the minimum, we should be able to match any cash anyone else throws at him and then some.

I would like to go hard for him subject to fitness. It wouldn't have to be the start of WW2 with Port either - we should be able to negotiate a suitable trade but if they play hardball, that's what Pick # 1 in the PSD is all about, isn't it?

It goes without saying that it is subject to fitness. I thought some things were obvious enough to not need to be said. Hell, I even said it earlier in the thread. However, like godees, H and I have already alluded to, I'm assuming the extent of his knee is being grossly exaggerated because it sounds like bollocks. I do expect the club to do their due diligence though.

No need to chase hard for Burgoyne, let him nominate a club, if it's MFC take him in the psd.

If you don't chase hard first, the player will not nominate you. Not chasing hard is the quickest way to have the bloke nominate Carlton, because we all know those SOBs will have done the legwork. Again. Wouldn't we all love that?

I agree with the majority of you- there is no need to chase him hard. Actually, when you look at our current list, one asks-Do we really need him.? ...

There is always, always, always a need for more players capable of playing an A grade game. Always.

My point is, make him an offer he can't refuse and he will nominate us. Players don't just choose clubs off the tops of their heads unless the club has already approached them and done all the hard work first. We did this with Judd and Warnock. It didn't pay off in those cases but it's what will need to happen again if we want him.

My point was that if he goes in to the PSD, if we want him, he'll have no choice. By nominating, you have to accept whichever club picks you. Given our current position with the salary cap of having to frontload contracts to get to the minimum, we should be able to match any cash anyone else throws at him and then some.

I understand what you are saying. However, "quality" players these days get the luxury of choosing the club they want to play for.

If it does turn into a financial bidding war ... IMHO we have no chance. So I would find in highly unlikely we can make him an offer "he cant refuse" that cant be matched or beaten by another side. Above or below the table!

Plus I oh so much agree with you "Players don't just choose clubs off the tops of their heads" ... $$$$$

I should also mention ... if he nominates Richmond for example .. and Richmond & Port cant do a deal ... and he does go to the PSD and nominates $600,000 per year. Very possible scenario .. Hardwick would have inside current knowledge.

Would you honestly pay that amount of money to a player that doesn't want to play for you?

Hence my call - we must wait till he nominates his preferred destination. However, please note I never said we cant talk to him ...

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by hangon007

If it does turn into a financial bidding war ... IMHO we have no chance. So I would find in highly unlikely we can make him an offer "he cant refuse" that cant be matched or beaten by another side. Above or below the table!

Maybe I'm naive, or just recklessly optimistic, but surely there's only so much under-the-table dealing Carlton clubs can do? Given that, I doubt anyone has even close to the salary cap space we would have.

Maybe I'm naive, or just recklessly optimistic, but surely there's only so much under-the-table dealing Carlton clubs can do? Given that, I doubt anyone has even close to the salary cap space we would have.

Richmond ... (Brown, Bowden, Johnson)

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by hangon007

I understand what you are saying. However, "quality" players these days get the luxury of choosing the club they want to play for.

If it does turn into a financial bidding war ... IMHO we have no chance. So I would find in highly unlikely we can make him an offer "he cant refuse" that cant be matched or beaten by another side. Above or below the table!

Plus I oh so much agree with you "Players don't just choose clubs off the tops of their heads" ... $$$$$

I should also mention ... if he nominates Richmond for example .. and Richmond & Port cant do a deal ... and he does go to the PSD and nominates $600,000 per year. Very possible scenario .. Hardwick would have inside current knowledge.

Would you honestly pay that amount of money to a player that doesn't want to play for you?

Hence my call - we must wait till he nominates his preferred destination. However, please note I never said we cant talk to him ...

You're talking in absolutes and black & white when it is never the case - he may want to play at another club more than he wants to play at MFC, but it hardly means he can't work out at a club that is 2nd or 3rd choice.

Would you say Nick Stevens has been a bad fit for Carlton (if you ignore his form)?

The man wanted to go to Collingwood originally, but that didn't preclude him from being suggested as a captaincy candidate before Judd got the gig

can u stop saying this seriously? every draft is different yes this one has less numbers but is it pick 27 comparable to 2007, 2001, 2003 1991??? you cant just say pick 18 = 27 because there are less numbers players.

If you need any convincing over why the 2009 draft is shallow - read my signature.

This is not opinion, it is fact.

You can still pick up a good player at 27...

I just don't think it is as inviting to clubs as trade bait, nor to Barry Prendergast, who has already commented on the shallowness of the draft.

People need to get over the sick fantasy that he'll end up in the PSD.

If Port can't arrange a trade, he'll kiss and make up and play out his career with the club. See Ryan O'Keefe 12 months ago. The last 2 high proile players to enter the PSD were Jade Rawlings and Nick Stevens back in 2003, right? (Cousins is another story)

If we want Shaun Burgoyne, we'll have to pay top dollar for him through the trade period. Thus he won't be at Melbourne next year.

I expect us to take a punt on an un-proven speculative 18 year old at pick 1 in the PSD, rather going down the 'mediocre 26 year old Hayden Skipworth path'. I seriously doubt any player of decent callibre will be around come December!

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

Maybe I'm naive, or just recklessly optimistic, but surely there's only so much under-the-table dealing Carlton clubs can do? Given that, I doubt anyone has even close to the salary cap space we would have.

You're naive.

Visy have 11 AFL ambassadors. Coincidentally all of their ambassadors just happen to play football with Carlton. Any payment they receive for their "work" is outside of Carlton's salary cap. The AFL has ruled all of this as being legitimate.

It really makes you wonder wtf the AFL is doing.

You're naive.

Visy have 11 AFL ambassadors. Coincidentally all of their ambassadors just happen to play football with Carlton. Any payment they receive for their "work" is outside of Carlton's salary cap. The AFL has ruled all of this as being legitimate.

It really makes you wonder wtf the AFL is doing.

Yeah I get how it works and I knew about Judd, but I didn't realise that Visy was actually a bottomless pit of money for Carlton to dip from when they needed money outside the cap.

Ouch. Yes, it does make you wonder wtf the AFL is doing. One player you might understand, but 11 is ridiculous.

People need to get over the sick fantasy that he'll end up in the PSD.

If Port can't arrange a trade, he'll kiss and make up and play out his career with the club. See Ryan O'Keefe 12 months ago. The last 2 high proile players to enter the PSD were Jade Rawlings and Nick Stevens back in 2003, right? (Cousins is another story)

If we want Shaun Burgoyne, we'll have to pay top dollar for him through the trade period. Thus he won't be at Melbourne next year.

I expect us to take a punt on an un-proven speculative 18 year old at pick 1 in the PSD, rather going down the 'mediocre 26 year old Hayden Skipworth path'. I seriously doubt any player of decent callibre will be around come December!

A fit Shaun Burgoyne is not a mediocre player but you're right about the possibility of getting him for free in the PSD. We are going to have to deal to get him if we really want him.

In the meantime however, this whole story could simply be manager driven to enable the client to get the best price and Burgoyne might well have no real intention of leaving SA.

Let's just see how things pan out.

You're talking in absolutes and black & white when it is never the case -

With quality players these modern days its always black and white - remember the name Judd!!!

Free agency by default!

Yeah I get how it works and I knew about Judd, but I didn't realise that Visy was actually a bottomless pit of money for Carlton to dip from when they needed money outside the cap.

Ouch. Yes, it does make you wonder wtf the AFL is doing. One player you might understand, but 11 is ridiculous.

Its a business these days ... a strong Carlton is good for Business ...

Edited September 11, 200916 yr by hangon007

Burgoyne has put all talks on hold until his knee is further assessed, but Rucci has apparently reported that if he comes to Victoria Hawthorn are believed to be his preffered destination.