Demonlanders, we're on notice

[Carn dees 108]

Point is:

Why insult/bag out a player from the team you support at all. Here or anywhere?

Different if you're saying-

-He f**ked that up.. -kick the freakin thing.. or -he can't handball for shite, needs to improve- Constructive criticism or just being [censored] off at the quality of the play is one thing.. But i just don't see the point of crapping on something you say you support, which has happened plenty on this site.. and would be great to see less of.

Supporter based forums should be used for -footy-related discussion, opinions and bagging out every other club and their players!

That said, 'Depression' is pushing it a bit..

Agree with what you said, i never bag my own players ever, when i first came on this site i was like woah!

[timD 994]

Jarka, try addressing the content. You've argued that it is ok to abuse people if they are in public and earn money (and are young). You also say that words don't hurt people and yet you've run a mile from mine (suggesting that you really don't believe this and cannot live it). You've also sought to exploit/abuse players and your current argument is effectively a defence of that disgusting little effort.

Not much there to be proud is there, really. I wonder if you'll bother speaking more garbage about how your behaviour is predetermined now? Are we really predetermined to be vindictive towards people for our own benefit?

As for you Enforcer, maybe keep your power fantasies to yourself. You come one here under the name 'Enforcer" and accuse me of being 'princess'. Does that make you feel good - powerful - important? I hope that effort was worthwhile cause reality must bum you out big time. Enforcer - does your need to project an image of strength really need an audience? Couldn't you just mime some more and keep the internet out of it?

[Je Roos Salem 661]

There's nothing to criticize Robbo about. He's a brilliant player.

[Ryan Dee 140]

This generation of young players don't need Robbo to tell them what goes on on these forums, they actually grew up with computers and I'd say a fare few have read/posted on message boards before they were drafted. They know exactly what goes on.

yerp.

Not much more needs to be said. You will always get player bashing on here.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

I was more interested in his old coach in tassie saying that he always falls over. That has never changed maybe he should listen to some criticism cause I think that alone has cost him 1 to 2 years of football. He has had a very good career though and should be congradulated.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Football is an emotional game and is followed by people who get emotional about it. Why else would we invest so much time, energy and soul into such a silly thing as a bunch of grown men running around after a ball? Robbo (and any other player) shouldn't be that precious about the ravings of a bunch of over excited people who would trade places with them in an instant. If an AFL player doesn't like what Rojik says they should remind themselves that they have more football talent in their bowel movements than Rojik will ever have in his whole life. When it comes from a Lethal, Hird or Lyon then they should treat it seriously.

That said I will strive to make my comments about the MFC players constuctive in the future in case one of my heroes takes it to heart.

[e25 5]

There's nothing to criticize Robbo about. He's a brilliant player.

Wait.

You were being sarcastic, right..?

[1858 237]

1858, you may misunderstand my point. Not for once do I condone anyone abusing another person, regardless of whether they are a player, umpire or spectator. I've already made the point that I don't do it. But it's a bit rich seeing players do it in every single match knowing that their actions influence their fans (let's face it, whether they want it or not they are role models) and then turn around and complain about the odd online comment.

I whole heartedly agree that players are role models Jarka but if we look at the game of footy itself, the AFL is moderately sterile compared to most unregulated or "lower" leagues in the country. At nearly any game of footy from about u18 upwards at any level you will see the kind of player behaviour that I think you are referring to. If is a competetive sport. Unfortunately at AFL level your are in the national spotlight and any triumphs or failures that you have will be well documented either properly or improperly in the public realm. I am not trying to justify what Robbo said here, my position is quite simply that I take on board what he says to a degree and can understand that some players who struggle on the field can probably feel the heat off it more than others due to many circumstances which could be exacerbated via online communication. Whether AFL players need to "harden up" a little bit here or whether what Robbo was referring to is a little bit more complex than that I don't know and is out of my scope.

The reason why the AFL is trying to stamp out abuse towards umpires is because they know that fans will parrot this type of behaviour. If they want to get serious about stamping it out they need to lead from the front as a group and stop the trash talk on the field.

You may think that's unreasonable, but you need to think about the issue not just from your own point of view. You're obviously well educated and intelligent, the problem mostly stems from those who haven't been as fortunate in terms of education.

TBH I don't think footy fans need to mimic players to gain a disdain for umpires or their decisions but that is a matter of opinion I guess. Obviously I understand why the AFL is trying to stamp out umpire abuse and has done a reasonably good job I think - especially in the media. Players are fair game in the media btw. This is getting off the issue a little though...

I still don't think that there is a case for hypocrisy here. Depression is quite simply a condition not an opinion or position. I don't see how a player can be a hypocrite if they suffer depression. Furthermore I don't have any problem with Robbo making reference to player depression in the context that he did as long as he is being honest and genuine and not just laying it on a bit.

Edited August 21, 2009 by 1858

[Jarka 767]

I whole heartedly agree that players are role models Jarka but if we look at the game of footy itself, the AFL is moderately sterile compared to most unregulated or "lower" leagues in the country. At nearly any game of footy from about u18 upwards at any level you will see the kind of player behaviour that I think you are referring to. If is a competetive sport. Unfortunately at AFL level your are in the national spotlight and any triumphs or failures that you have will be well documented either properly or improperly in the public realm. I am not trying to justify what Robbo said here, my position is quite simply that I take on board what he says to a degree and can understand that some players who struggle on the field can probably feel the heat off it more than others due to many circumstances which could be exacerbated via online communication. Whether AFL players need to "harden up" a little bit here or whether what Robbo was referring to is a little bit more complex than that I don't know and is out of my scope.

TBH I don't think footy fans need to mimic players to gain a disdain for umpires or their decisions but that is a matter of opinion I guess. Obviously I understand why the AFL is trying to stamp out umpire abuse and has done a reasonably good job I think - especially in the media. Players are fair game in the media btw. This is getting off the issue a little though...

I still don't think that there is a case for hypocrisy here. Depression is quite simply a condition not an opinion or position. I don't see how a player can be a hypocrite if they suffer depression. Furthermore I don't have any problem with Robbo making reference to player depression in the context that he did as long as he is being honest and genuine and not just laying it on a bit.

1858, I agree with what you're saying, and I admit that my first couple of posts on this subject were flippant, so I apologise for that. I just believe that the people who cross the line with abuse are not the sort of people who will take a measured view on the topic.

'Trash talk' is not acceptable in all forms of professional sport. Tennis, Golf, swimming, track and field, billiards etc trash talk is frowned upon. It definitely was in my chosen sport and I competed at the national level in my younger days.

My reference to hypocrisy was not directed at someone suffering depression. It was directed at the players who say it should stop and then you see them doing exactly what they're trying to stop on the field. What we're talking about here is a culture that dates back many generations, probably to the early days of football. The only way to change the culture of the sport is to start with the athletes themselves.

[H_T 2,941]

After an extended break on my part from this thread and having thought more about the title of this thread. Whilst the plea by 'the fork' to "stop player bashing" is probably agreed by most including myself, unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears IMO. Some of it occurs straight after games from posters you only ever read straight after games on the Game Day threads, taking their opportunity to vent their spleen at another loss and laying their blame on a player(s). With respect to this thread, they most likely don't read it or couldn't "give a continental" about it.

Much like Mike Sheahan's recent article on his fear for our city of Melbourne - the increase in violence on our streets - unless action is taken by 'authorities' or in our case 'moderators' the problem will persist IMHO.

[e25 5]

Sorry HT, I know this isn't really constructive criticism, but I passionately dislike your new signature.

And I'd cringe if I ever heard anyone refer to Jurrah as L Cool J... its just... ugh.

Words can't describe.

Move on, you can do way better than that.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Enforcer25

[1858 237]

Sorry HT, I know this isn't really constructive criticism, but I passionately dislike your new signature.

Very good.

[H_T 2,941]

Sorry HT, I know this isn't really constructive criticism, but I passionately dislike your new signature.

And I'd cringe if I ever heard anyone refer to Jurrah as L Cool J... its just... ugh.

Words can't describe.

It is just what?

I'll change it if you're that passionate about your dislike for the sig.

Edited August 21, 2009 by High Tower

[e25 5]

It is just what?

I'll change it if you're that passionate about your dislike for the sig.

Maybe its just too big for my liking.

But I find myself having to look at it, and I really don't like that nickname for some reason.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Sorry HT, i do agree with Enforcer, just not Liam's style i think.

As to player bashing, IMHO being in the spotlight you have to learn to deal with it, like actors and the paparazzi, it comes with the game. Maybe educating new players to the harshness of some supporters/non-supporters would be the way to go just to prepare them for the riggers of AFL supporters. Because we all know that strong hurt filled criticism isn't going to go away anytime soon.

[e25 5]

Exactly, it comes with the territory. And as the new draftees go through induction classes I'd be very surprised if this topic does not raise its ugly head.

And on the topic of signatures, were you satisfied?

I would be, in fact, I am.

[H_T 2,941]

Maybe its just too big for my liking.

But I find myself having to look at it, and I really don't like that nickname for some reason.

Done. I didn't think it would have that kind of effect on some. I think he's pretty cool anyway.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Cheers HT.

Yes, very satisfied Enforcer.

[e25 5]

Done. I didn't think it would have that kind of effect on some. I think he's pretty cool anyway.

To be honest mate, I could've lived with it but it was just too big.

Having it crammed down my visual throat everytime I read one of your posts was hard work

[H_T 2,941]

To be honest mate, I could've lived with it but it was just too big.

Having it crammed down my visual throat everytime I read one of your posts was hard work

I'll stick with the Warlpiri Wizard. And cram that down your throat, ok?

[Rogue 585]

Maybe its just too big for my liking.

This isn't about HT's sig, but a comment in general -

I think it's ridiculous when the signatures are taking up more room than the posts.

Much like Mike Sheahan's recent article on his fear for our city of Melbourne - the increase in violence on our streets - unless action is taken by 'authorities' or in our case 'moderators' the problem will persist IMHO.

We're getting a little off-topic, but hey - that's what happens.

Recently I was chatting to a guy who by guesstimate would be ~50 years old. He was talking about 'the good old days' of footy, when he regularly attended games which in the era of suburban grounds like Victoria Park. I'd been to a game at the 'G earlier in the day and asked him why he hadn't been to the footy in years.

He complained to me about the sanitised culture of football watching these days, and gave me an anecdote about how he and a mate would have to run from Vic Park after a game because a pack of Collingwood supporters wanted to physically assault them (although he probably used the words 'have a bit of a biff' or something like that ). He also talked to me about parking your car near the ground if it had a Melbourne sticker on it. Apparently these were both positive aspects of 'old school' footy - who knew?

To be honest, right now I can't really recall any violent altercation I've seen at the footy in the last decade. Sure, it happens (Nathan Jones' dad is one I'm sure most of us have heard about) and it's not unusual to see someone - generally drunk - who seems open to getting into some kind of incident if given the chance. However, I would say that the 'culture' around AFL matches has changed and there's in fact been a decrease in violence.

My point? It's easy to talk about an increase in violence and nostalgically look back at the good old days, but is that accurate? Did bashings after footy games in say the 80's get headline news? Putting aside the talk of footy, the only time anyone in my family has been assaulted happened at a metro train station over 10 years ago.

[H_T 2,941]

Fair point Rogue, maybe it has existed for sometime.

Once again, I know this is off topic too - but it happens. It opens up to other issues such as Alcohol & Drugs - in relation to Melbourne's street fights and bashings. (Not so much player bashing on these forums).

Then there is the argument of the generations (ie Gen Y).

Fwiw, I haven't had a family member assaulted, I guess we've managed to avoid confrontations or somehow steer clear of trouble.

However, that recent attack on the footy field at a local footy match where a moron clubbed a kid with a hammer is just not on - let alone the fighting already on the field. I don't know if you saw Garry Lyons plea to the public last night on the Footy Show, but he was right on the money. It's hurting the game. The game should be just about fun. Parents & friends at these games should take a deep breath in following their kids progress.

I don't really know if this was an alcohol or drug related fuelled incident, but taking a hammer out nto the field to belt a 'kid' - theat bloke should be locked up.

Apologies for being off topic, had to get that off the chest.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This isn't about HT's sig, but a comment in general -

I think it's ridiculous when the signatures are taking up more room than the posts.

Agree. Also when people reply to a post and copy the whole long post when they are not even respond to that point. Put .... in the box instead of repeating slabs of another posters work. Makes it easier to read.

Recently I was chatting to a guy who by guesstimate would be ~50 years old. He was talking about 'the good old days' of footy, when he regularly attended games which in the era of suburban grounds like Victoria Park. I'd been to a game at the 'G earlier in the day and asked him why he hadn't been to the footy in years.

.....

My point? It's easy to talk about an increase in violence and nostalgically look back at the good old days, but is that accurate? Did bashings after footy games in say the 80's get headline news? Putting aside the talk of footy, the only time anyone in my family has been assaulted happened at a metro train station over 10 years ago.

Its alot safer going to the footy now then when it was played at some of those slagheap suburban grounds in the 60s70s and 80s. AFL is also safer game on the field with less on field thuggery.

Its quite a contrast to the seemingly more violent world we live in.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fwiw, I haven't had a family member assaulted, I guess we've managed to avoid confrontations or somehow steer clear of trouble.

However, that recent attack on the footy field at a local footy match where a moron clubbed a kid with a hammer is just not on - let alone the fighting already on the field. I don't know if you saw Garry Lyons plea to the public last night on the Footy Show, but he was right on the money. It's hurting the game. The game should be just about fun. Parents & friends at these games should take a deep breath in following their kids progress.

I don't really know if this was an alcohol or drug related fuelled incident, but taking a hammer out nto the field to belt a 'kid' - theat bloke should be locked up.

Unfortunately its one or two proponents of the ugly parent/family member syndrome that wrecks it for everyone else.

Its a function of some of the problems within our society. I feel for suburban football leagues who are doing so much particularly at junior level to make the experience a safe, rewarding, character building arrangement for all members of the family. But it takes 1 or 2 goons.........

[gOLLy 401]

Imagine Juice reading these forums.