At the start of 2008 Melbourne and Essendon had new coaches. Both had old lists and began culling their older players. The football world expected both clubs to be down for a few years while they rebuilt their lists.

This year we've seen both sides heading in different directions to each other. The Bombers are rising, their young players kicking on, their middle aged players showing more maturity and consistency while their older players are still being phased out. They are displaying a system and attractive running game, are winning games and last night took another step up defying the odds and beating the reigning premiers.

By contrast, Melbourne remains at the bottom of the ladder with just one win. We're playing an ugly brand of football and, while our defence is improving, our mid age players are showing minimal improvement at best and we seem to be going nowhere. Already, after only six games, supporters are talking about and dreaming about the end of the year draft and priority picks. The coach talks of being "competitive".

Why aren't we even looking as if we're developing a winning culture like the Bombers are?

We will be better then the bombers, in 2 years. Will they win a flag in 2 years? (not saying we will)

The Dons will be in the same position soon again when half there spine retires. Wining culture is great if you have the cattle to strike. (but we don't)

This year we need to Just get through, get some experience into are future players, then next year we should start to see some real development.

We will be better then the bombers, in 2 years. Will they win a flag in 2 years? (not saying we will)

The Dons will be in the same position soon again when half there spine retires. Wining culture is great if you have the cattle to strike. (but we don't)

This year we need to Just get through, get some experience into are future players, then next year we should start to see some real development.

How do you figure that, when the most experienced players they had last night were just Lloyd and McPhee?

The spine you refer to were sitting in the stands. I think they're on the way up, they have alot of youth who are playing to their team structure and playing well against good teams in front of big crowds.

Its not a fair comparison

When we were playing finals in 2005 and 2006, Essendon were at the bottom of the ladder building their team through draft picks.

A more valid comparison would be to compare our side in 2011 versus their current team

Essendon have been rebuilding since 05. We have been rebuilding since 07.

We should be two years behind them due to simple maths, but we will overtake them sooner.

The Dons will be in the same position soon again when half there spine retires.

You obviously don't watch a lot of Essendon, do you? Last night their spine was Neagle, Lloyd, Ryder, Pears and Hooker. Lloyd was close to best on ground, the rest are all long-term young prospects. They beat Hawthorn by 7 goals with two 'senior' players in their side (Lloyd and McPhee).

Essendon has been out of the finals since 2004. That's 4 years of top-10 drafting. They're entitled to be in front of us at this point, and they should be too.

They played the brand of footy last night that we are trying to play. Fast risky ball movement through the middle. helped that hawthorn didn't look interested. Helps when an old timer can take 18 marks.

Was good to watch.

Hawks are completely out of it. 7 games in and they haven't won the contested ball tally yet. Were uninterested last night.

Let's see how Essendon go against Geelong.

When we were playing finals in 2005 and 2006, Essendon were at the bottom of the ladder building their team through draft picks.

Essendon aren't a bad side and we too won't be a bad side in 2011-12 with our current list. So while we wait for our group to mature, lets get some more pointy talent in and make sure that the "not a bad side in 2011 will actually be powerhouse side.

I'm interested to see how both teams will line up in 2011.

At the start of 2008 Melbourne and Essendon had new coaches. Both had old lists and began culling their older players. The football world expected both clubs to be down for a few years while they rebuilt their lists.

This year we've seen both sides heading in different directions to each other. The Bombers are rising, their young players kicking on, their middle aged players showing more maturity and consistency while their older players are still being phased out. They are displaying a system and attractive running game, are winning games and last night took another step up defying the odds and beating the reigning premiers.

By contrast, Melbourne remains at the bottom of the ladder with just one win. We're playing an ugly brand of football and, while our defence is improving, our mid age players are showing minimal improvement at best and we seem to be going nowhere. Already, after only six games, supporters are talking about and dreaming about the end of the year draft and priority picks. The coach talks of being "competitive".

Why aren't we even looking as if we're developing a winning culture like the Bombers are?

To be fair, Dean Bailey inherited a list that was ageing and stale, it lacked class, speed and the development of the mid aged bracket had been neglected and we are continually paying for the price for this. By contrast, Essendon had Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher, all champion players of the game. They have leg speed, some class and they tend to develop players better than what we did in the Daniher era.

We are starting way behind and the road to recovery was always going to be long irrespective of what those that wear the rose coloured specs think.

We have made positive steps forward but there is still a long road to travel.

Essendon have been rebuilding since 05. We have been rebuilding since 07.

We should be two years behind them due to simple maths, but we will overtake them sooner.

I really do hope so, ive always thought wed win a premiership before essendon i have 200 dolas with a mate that says we will.

Although im having second thoughts.

I hate to bring it up but so much lies on whether we get the priority pick this year its not funny. So much.

I hate to bring it up but so much lies on whether we get the priority pick this year its not funny. So much.

I agree the two things we need most A speedy skilfull mid and another keyforward.

And it just so hapens 2 players that fit that description happen to be rated in the top 3 of this years draft.

Essendon's 3 best players are all over 30.

/thread

Poor comparison though. We lost several leaders last year and over the past 2 seasons (White, Holland, Yze, Neitz, Carroll, Brown) and have replaced them with 17-19 year olds. Essendon haven't really done that, and just added some great draft picks with the oldies. I wouldn't say they are rebuilding just yet. They are still a decent team at best. We an average team at best.

I don't think we were ever compared with Essendon during the rebuilding stages. In terms of rebuilding, we are several steps a head of them. IMO anyway.

Essendon's 3 best players are all over 30.

I assume you're refering to Lloyd, McVeigh and Fletcher(?).

They seemed to cope fine last night without two of them.

And I would argue that Stanton is in front of Fletcher now.

IMO Knights introduced to them a one dimensional game plan of running and attacking last year. They have the young mids with pace to persue this. This year it appears they are working a little more on their defensive pressure as well. Essendon are quite simply a dangerous team because they have pretty good pace where it matters. Their skill set as a group seems to have improved slightly as well but then again with their running ability they don't put themselves under the pump as much (as we do). With JMac in his twilight and Moloney, Jones and McLean all being of average pace at best, our midfield is a fair way behind IMO. As others have said, the Dons have had a couple of years head start and the midfield is where we are yet to blood youngsters such as Blease + Strauss (and promising Rookies) so we have a lot of development ahead of us in that area. IMO our defence is in front as a group although once Hurley comes on the Bombers will look better. Just as long as they don't poach Wellman!

Hawks are completely out of it. 7 games in and they haven't won the contested ball tally yet. Were uninterested last night.

This is a serious premiership hangover. Stomach pump required.

I wouldn't get too carried away with Essendon just yet the worst footballer in the land in Lovett-Murray just kicked 3 they are clearly overacheiving. Hawthorn have lost the plot they were a hard side last year now they are soft no chance of top 4 will struggle to make the 8.

Essendon's 3 best players are all over 30.

/thread

Poor comparison though. We lost several leaders last year and over the past 2 seasons (White, Holland, Yze, Neitz, Carroll, Brown) and have replaced them with 17-19 year olds. Essendon haven't really done that, and just added some great draft picks with the oldies. I wouldn't say they are rebuilding just yet. They are still a decent team at best. We an average team at best.

I don't think we were ever compared with Essendon during the rebuilding stages. In terms of rebuilding, we are several steps a head of them. IMO anyway.

Name them, and tell me if they played last night.

They've also got rid of several players around the calibre of Brown, Yze, Holland and Brown (J. Johnson, Solomon, M. Johnson, Peverill, Heffernan, Ramanauskas) and replaced them with kids as well.

They're definitely rebuilding. Look at their team last night - it was the youngest to ever play since they started recording average ages in 1990 (22 yrs 11mnths) and there were 11 players with under 25 games.

Lloyd is 31, McPhee, Lovett, Lovett-Murray the next oldest at 26

We are building our team from a solid defence through to a grunty midfiled and hopefully, courtesy of watts, Jurrah, Butcher, Aussie and Maric, a portent forward line. This is not a bad way to go IMO. Premiership sides are always built on a solid defence and a dominant midfield. The bombers look exciting but lightweight and flukey.

Name them, and tell me if they played last night.

They've also got rid of several players around the calibre of Brown, Yze, Holland and Brown (J. Johnson, Solomon, M. Johnson, Peverill, Heffernan, Ramanauskas) and replaced them with kids as well.

They're definitely rebuilding. Look at their team last night - it was the youngest to ever play since they started recording average ages in 1990 (22 yrs 11mnths) and there were 11 players with under 25 games.

Lloyd is 31, McPhee, Lovett, Lovett-Murray the next oldest at 26

It would be naive and churlish in the extreme to underestimate the leadership and positive impact of premiership players Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher and McVeigh at Essendon over a number of years. Had they been fit Fletcher and McVeigh would have been in that line

Mcveigh didn't play in their Premiership and had 2 touches in the Grand Final he played in.

It would be naive and churlish in the extreme to underestimate the leadership and positive impact of premiership players Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher and McVeigh at Essendon over a number of years. Had they been fit Fletcher and McVeigh would have been in that line

I'm not underestimating their impact - just pointing out that only 1 played in a game where they beat the reigning premiers (albeit an obviously off the boil reigning premiers)

At the start of 2008 Melbourne and Essendon had new coaches. Both had old lists and began culling their older players. The football world expected both clubs to be down for a few years while they rebuilt their lists.

This year we've seen both sides heading in different directions to each other. The Bombers are rising, their young players kicking on, their middle aged players showing more maturity and consistency while their older players are still being phased out. They are displaying a system and attractive running game, are winning games and last night took another step up defying the odds and beating the reigning premiers.

By contrast, Melbourne remains at the bottom of the ladder with just one win. We're playing an ugly brand of football and, while our defence is improving, our mid age players are showing minimal improvement at best and we seem to be going nowhere. Already, after only six games, supporters are talking about and dreaming about the end of the year draft and priority picks. The coach talks of being "competitive".

Why aren't we even looking as if we're developing a winning culture like the Bombers are?

Don't forget the bombers had a 2 year head start on getting high draft picks into their list by finishing bottom 4 in 05 and 06 while we were playing finals. Give ot 2 years and I suspect in 2011 you'll have a very good match between the two sides which I'd like our chances of winning.

Sorry Morton2Watts & IWAP, I see you've already raised my point, cheers.