Freak said:

And where are all of those 'Morton is such a great kick' people? i sure cant see them now. i wonder what they were thinking when Morton kicked a simple 20metre pass on the full.

Didn't mind his 45 metre goal off one step though....

why would bennel not keep his spot - looked impressive with feet skills and also ability to read the ball.

i'd be tinkering with the forward line... a backline of presti, nathan brown, harry o, the worst captain in the comp, goldscrot does not put the wind up many teams at vfl level let alone afl...

run the ball hard all day, take chances and do what the crows did... easy!!

  Rampaging Demons said:

why would bennel not keep his spot - looked impressive with feet skills and also ability to read the ball.

i'd be tinkering with the forward line... a backline of presti, nathan brown, harry o, the worst captain in the comp, goldscrot does not put the wind up many teams at vfl level let alone afl...

run the ball hard all day, take chances and do what the crows did... easy!!

Easier said than done.

In: Newton (need the tall marking forward) and Sylvia and Martin

Out: Jetta(had some good patches first up but will be good to go back to Casey), Frawley and Johnson

FB: Garland, Warnock, Bennell

HB: Cheney, Rivers, Bartram

C: Morton, Moloney, Buckley

HF: Sylvia, Miller, Green

FF: Newton, Bate, Davey

Foll: Spencer, Bruce, McLean

Int: Jones, Martin, McDonald, Petterd

Add Syliva, Newton and Green all to the forward line to add some goal scoring options.

Garland can play on Medhurst, Bennell on Davis, Cheney on Thomas and Bartram on Didak.

  Tall Defence said:

In: Newton (need the tall marking forward) and Sylvia and Martin

Out: Jetta(had some good patches first up but will be good to go back to Casey), Frawley and Johnson

FB: Garland, Warnock, Bennell

HB: Cheney, Rivers, Bartram

C: Morton, Moloney, Buckley

HF: Sylvia, Miller, Green

FF: Newton, Bate, Davey

Foll: Spencer, Bruce, McLean

Int: Jones, Martin, McDonald, Petterd

Add Syliva, Newton and Green all to the forward line to add some goal scoring options.

Garland can play on Medhurst, Bennell on Davis, Cheney on Thomas and Bartram on Didak.

Why? What's with people saying Frawley goes? I thought he was one of our best against the Roos.

  titan_uranus said:

Why? What's with people saying Frawley goes? I thought he was one of our best against the Roos.

Agree. I certainly don't understand it. I don't recall him making many mistakes or being comprehensively beaten on any occasion against the Roos. Makes you wonder what game some people were watching.

My (updated) teams and matchups for Round 2- (Wrote this up last night. Taken from dave86's preview thread):

B: GARLAND WARNOCK RIVERS

F: Anthony Rocca Medhurst

HB: CHENEY FRAWLEY BARTRAM

HF: Didak Cloke Davis

C: BUCKLEY MOLONEY BRUCE

C: Thomas O'Bree Lockyer

HF: GREEN MILLER DAVEY

HB: Maxwell Brown Toovey

F: PETTERD BATE JETTA

B: Shaw O'Brien Clarke

FOL: JOHNSON McLEAN McDONALD

FOL: Fraser Swan Pendlebury

INT: SPENCER, JONES, MORTON, BENNELL

INT: Bryan, Johnson, Cox, Beams

COL- IN: Rocca, Shaw, Beams

OUT: Reid, Goldsack, Prestigiacomo

MEL- Unchanged

There's been a lot of talk on here about changes for next week but having thought about it over the last day or so, i actually think Dean Bailey & co. will go with an unchanged lineup against Collingwood, barring any injury concerns. Sylvia may get lucky and possibly push Jamie Bennell out of the side, but Bennell hardly put a foot wrong in his debut. Not in his favour is the fact the 'Pies don't have the same plethora of slight, speedy small forwards as the 'Roos do, and Bennell may just get dropped due to lack of matchup (as well as needing to hit the gym), not to mention our obvious need for more marking targets in the forward line. Sylvia or Stefan Martin may be called upon in that instance, although Martin should probably spend some time learning to play forward at Casey before being tried in that position at AFL level. Newton may also be an outside chance, although his form has been patchy at best.

FORWARD

Looking over the two teams, one of the first things i notice is that Prestigiacomo doesn't have an immediate match up. For this reason I believe he may be dropped, purely on a 'horses for courses' basis. Maxwell might have been playing midfield so far this year, but he is a very accomplished backman and, IMO, he's a perfect matchup for any one of Melbourne's mid-sized marking forwards in Green, Petterd or Bate. Presti' would probably only be a suitable matchup for Miller playing deep, or possibly Bate, but is at risk of being led far out of his defensive 50 and exposed for agility further up the ground. Paul Johnson is the other match-up that would suit him, but expect PJ to spend more time in the ruck and less forward, as he did against the Roos. Unless Newton plays (which is highly unlikely), there is no-one for Prestigiacomo to play on.

Despite Bate's shocker last week at FF, he should be given the next few weeks to settle into FF before a change is made. He has, after all, been training for that position all preseason. Miller will be used in his lead-up CHF role and Nathan Brown seems the logical matchup for him at CHB. I think Maxwell will start on one of Green or Petterd. We've all seen what Green is capable of as a forward and Petterd showed last week he looks very natural and comfortable up front, as well as being a deceptively strong mark for his size. Reminded me a lot of an early Russell Robertson-- the wobbly tumble punt set shot, then the magnificent checkside goal on the run, the big leap, courage and complete disregard for his own safety in marking contests-- just screamed young Robbo to me! Shaw is the likely matchup for the other of these two.

I've gone with dave86's suggestion that Toovey start on Davey, and picked Marty Clarke to try and run and rebound off Jetta.

As has been the case for the last two years, Melbourne will struggle in the forward line due to a lack of strong key targets. Unless one (or all) of Bate, Miller, Green or Petterd can present strongly and score multiple goals, Melbourne might be competitive around the ground but will struggle to kick a winning score. Aaron Davey is another who desperately needs to be applying more scoreboard pressure.

MIDFIELD

In the midfield McLean and Swan to go head to head, as will O'Bree and Moloney. I doubt there will be any really hard tags put on, especially not by the 'Pies who will be thinking 'all-out attack'. However, if Swan or Pendlebury start firing expect Bartram (or McDonald) to man either up, with Cheney to swap over to Davis and Bruce to Didak down back. Johnson will want to make amends for his poor efforts on McIntosh last week, despite his improved ruck work. More will be needed of him around the ground against Fraser, although expect him to win his fair share of ruck contests. McIntosh is probably the more accomplished tap ruckman out of he and Frasier, and PJ more than broke even in ruck contests against him (although was particularly poor accountability wise). He will need to be wary of Frasier running forward of the ball to provide another marking option up forward as McIntosh did last week. Spencer and Johnson should both have the measure of Chris Bryan when Fraser is off the ground or resting up forward.

Despite breaking even in the clearances and contested ball, Melbourne's midfield looked pedestrian at times against the Roo's. Buckley, Davey and Morton all need to step up from last week, as their run and carry will be a very important factor if Melbourne are to challenge.

BACKLINE

In the backline Garland should get first crack at Anthony, Warnock to go to Rocca and Frawley to Cloke. Each of those key matchups seems the most logical physically and in terms of style of play. Garland will have the speed and reach to go with the strong-leading Anthony, Warnock the strength to compete one-on-one with Rocca, and Frawley the athleticism and overhead ability to man Cloke as a high forward. Rivers will play his customary 'quarterback' role helping out the other talls, most likely lining up on Medhurst and zoning off where possible. I'd give Cheney first crack at playing on Didak, with Bruce and Garland as Plan B & C should Cheney fail, as Didak is capable of really causing us some damage both at ground level and in the air. I like Bartram to do a hard-tag on the lively Leon Davis as he did on Harvey last week in defence and up the ground.

The backline were great against the 'Roos and expect them to give their all again. The 'Pies have some dangerous small-mid forwards who are good marks for their size, in Medhurst, Davis and Didak, as well as Thomas who spends some time in there. All will need to be played very tightly. Bennell may be called upon to man a Davis or Didak, although i fear his lack of body strength may be easily exposed against stronger opponents than North's mosquito fleet.

Melbourne's disciplined young defensive group is coming along in leaps and bounds and if the midfield give a good account of themselves, the key posts should be solid enough to be able to keep the Demons competitive.

RESULT

I love my Demons as much as anyone here on Demonland, and nothing is more pleasing than to see them bury the Magpies as rank-outsiders. But the reality of the situation is Collingwood are a side who should be legitimately pushing for a top 4 position come September, whereas the Dee's will most likely be occupying a place towards the bottom of the table. Without strong marking targets up forward, I fail to see how Melbourne will be able to kick a winning score. Much like last week, the Dee's will be competitive for the majority of the game, but in the end will lack the firepower to put the Pies away as our young kids run out of steam.

As much as i hate to say it, Collingwood by 25 points.

Garland on Pendlebury. Would love to see that match up

  tez said:

Clearly Jetta and Bennell will play next week maric aint fit and martin got a few knocks didnt do much after 3/4q at casey jurrah is weeks away and Wona cant be seriously cosidered needs a week at casey when ready in 2 weeks

ins Newton Sylvia

Outs raffle between Bruce, Miller,Bate and Johnson yes i agree with that man

Bruce and Johnson will not go out, either will Miller as he is a favorite of Bailey, Bate maybe

Although he was disappointing last week, I think Master should be given another opportunity. He has been training to play FF for the past few months, and he put in a few solid performances last year.

  Doggo said:

My (updated) teams and matchups for Round 2- (Wrote this up last night. Taken from dave86's preview thread):

B: GARLAND WARNOCK RIVERS

F: Anthony Rocca Medhurst

HB: CHENEY FRAWLEY BARTRAM

HF: Didak Cloke Davis

C: BUCKLEY MOLONEY BRUCE

C: Thomas O'Bree Lockyer

HF: GREEN MILLER DAVEY

HB: Maxwell Brown Toovey

F: PETTERD BATE JETTA

B: Shaw O'Brien Clarke

FOL: JOHNSON McLEAN McDONALD

FOL: Fraser Swan Pendlebury

INT: SPENCER, JONES, MORTON, BENNELL

INT: Bryan, Johnson, Cox, Beams

COL- IN: Rocca, Shaw, Beams

OUT: Reid, Goldsack, Prestigiacomo

MEL- Unchanged

RESULT

I love my Demons as much as anyone here on Demonland, and nothing is more pleasing than to see them bury the Magpies as rank-outsiders. But the reality of the situation is Collingwood are a side who should be legitimately pushing for a top 4 position come September, whereas the Dee's will most likely be occupying a place towards the bottom of the table. Without strong marking targets up forward, I fail to see how Melbourne will be able to kick a winning score. Much like last week, the Dee's will be competitive for the majority of the game, but in the end will lack the firepower to put the Pies away as our young kids run out of steam.

As much as i hate to say it, Collingwood by 25 points.

Thats nice work 'Doggo'.

Hmm can Sylvia mark? I vaguely remember that he can (?) Cos I was thinking we need a forward who can mark so we should bring in Sylvia and Martin - and play either Martin or Garland or someone tall (Rivers??) with good hands so that we at least have a target when we bomb it into one vs three in the forward line.. and we should play another debutant (Strauss or Bail)- someone who knows how to kick into the forward line. But the question is - who do we omit? Possibilities are Jetta, Morton, Miller, Bate, Davey, Bennell, Mclean, Bruce... Realistically I can't see the coach dropping any of them - mainly for sentimental/reputation reasons he won't drop Miller or Morton or Bruce, and the 2 bunbury boys really did enough to warrant another game - especially compared to some of their more senior team mates... and really I suppose they all deserve at least one second chance.... but based purely on last week's performance I would make the following changes:

OUT: Miller, Davey, Bruce

IN: Martin, Sylvia, Strauss

I`d be very happy with an unchanged team.

I think Sylvia and Newton should be left out at least one more week to make them hurt enough that they actually realise that they are not a walk up start. I think Bailey will be loathe to make any changes unless there are some injuries from Round 1 that we are unaware of.

personally i would like to see sylvia and newton get another week at casey. i think both of them need the chance to dominate at that level so they understand that there is more to having a good game than 14 touches and a goal or 2. sylvia should be getting 30 touches at casey and kicking 3-4 goals. newton, has shown as casey in the past, but hasnt shown at melbourne yet. a few weeks at sandy could do him some good too, to learn more that he needs without the pressure and at a slower pace.

imo sylvia needs to have the switch flicked, and just crusing at casey doesnt cut it.

my changes would see maric come in if there is a spot, because as a youngen i dont think he has to prove as much, and his skills will help the team.

bennell would be a the first out for me, not that he did anything wrong, but probably because he didnt stand out.

OK, our forward line was dysfunctional at times, I get it...

Bate deserves an extended run at FF, it will make him a better fwd in a few years when JW is the man.

I think they all deserve to play Rd 2. Maybe Morton didn't throw his body around enough...

If we bring back Sylvia for doing little for Casey, what message are we sending to the important stuff between his ears.

He is a great talent, but our future success is aided by a motivated Colin Sylvia for the next 5 years, not by a two goal effort in a gallant loss to Collingwood.

Make him earn it, Newton too.

No change.

  damo_araimbo said:

Hmm can Sylvia mark? I vaguely remember that he can (?) Cos I was thinking we need a forward who can mark so we should bring in Sylvia and Martin - and play either Martin or Garland or someone tall (Rivers??) with good hands so that we at least have a target when we bomb it into one vs three in the forward line.. and we should play another debutant (Strauss or Bail)- someone who knows how to kick into the forward line. But the question is - who do we omit? Possibilities are Jetta, Morton, Miller, Bate, Davey, Bennell, Mclean, Bruce... Realistically I can't see the coach dropping any of them - mainly for sentimental/reputation reasons he won't drop Miller or Morton or Bruce, and the 2 bunbury boys really did enough to warrant another game - especially compared to some of their more senior team mates... and really I suppose they all deserve at least one second chance.... but based purely on last week's performance I would make the following changes:

OUT: Miller, Davey, Bruce

IN: Martin, Sylvia, Strauss

Strauss is injured. And you won't see Davey being dropped. That would be counterproductive IMO. He's one of the few players on our list that has game-winning potential. Not to mention that he wasn't the worst player last week.

  deanox said:

personally i would like to see sylvia and newton get another week at casey. i think both of them need the chance to dominate at that level so they understand that there is more to having a good game than 14 touches and a goal or 2. sylvia should be getting 30 touches at casey and kicking 3-4 goals. newton, has shown as casey in the past, but hasnt shown at melbourne yet. a few weeks at sandy could do him some good too, to learn more that he needs without the pressure and at a slower pace.

Agree. If Newton can't dominate at Casey level he'll never be any good at AFL level. But more importantly, I want to know that they're both putting in sustained, four quarter efforts every time they play for Casey. No point promoting them to Melbourne if they're not giving their all for Casey.

  rpfc said:

If we bring back Sylvia for doing little for Casey, what message are we sending to the important stuff between his ears.

Make him earn it, Newton too.

No change.

Fair comment about Sylvia and Newton.

From reports, Sylvia did not dominate at Casey last week.

  titan_uranus said:

And you won't see Davey being dropped. That would be counterproductive IMO. He's one of the few players on our list that has game-winning potential. Not to mention that he wasn't the worst player last week.

Probably not but I have not seen Davey influence a game since 2006. Has he plateaued on field wise?

  titan_uranus said:

Agree. If Newton can't dominate at Casey level he'll never be any good at AFL level. But more importantly, I want to know that they're both putting in sustained, four quarter efforts every time they play for Casey. No point promoting them to Melbourne if they're not giving their all for Casey.

I am rather surprised that posters have selected Newton. I know we are desperate up forward but I want proof that Newton is primed to achieve. I have seen him do cameos in the VFL where he dominates and you think that Newton has a future in the AFL. But that was three years ago and if he is not cutting the VFL up then I would not waste any further time with him.

  Rhino Richards said:

Probably not but I have not seen Davey influence a game since 2006. Has he plateaued on field wise?

In my personal opinion, moving him into the midfield is the reason why he seems to have stagnated. Certainly doesn't have the influence on games that he could be having.

  Rhino Richards said:

I am rather surprised that posters have selected Newton. I know we are desperate up forward but I want proof that Newton is primed to achieve. I have seen him do cameos in the VFL where he dominates and you think that Newton has a future in the AFL. But that was three years ago and if he is not cutting the VFL up then I would not waste any further time with him.

100% agree.

  titan_uranus said:

In my personal opinion, moving him into the midfield is the reason why he seems to have stagnated. Certainly doesn't have the influence on games that he could be having.

I think he was always going to be challenged physique wise with certain aspects of the game. He is definitely one player that struggles with a tag.

  Rhino Richards said:

I think he was always going to be challenged physique wise with certain aspects of the game. He is definitely one player that struggles with a tag.

Then put him at Miller and Bate's feet, he will see plenty of the ball.

  rpfc said:

OK, our forward line was dysfunctional at times, I get it...

Bate deserves an extended run at FF, it will make him a better fwd in a few years when JW is the man.

No change.

Few years, hmmm... do you think he has a few years more on the list? I have had high hopes for the Bater but think he is one of the blokes who has reached a level and is struggling to get over the hump from potential to showing it on the park. Seems to lack pace, maybe stamina too and is poor below his waist. Dropped a sitter in the forward pocket that would have been a shot on goal in the 2nd term that cost us when we were on a run too. Needs to improve for mine to be around in a few more years. I do hope I am wrong and hope this is bumped if so!

Onwards and upwards.

  titan_uranus said:

Why? What's with people saying Frawley goes? I thought he was one of our best against the Roos.

Frawley had a decent game and I don't think he's done anything to deserve to be dropped. For me it's more an issue of match ups in Collingwood's forward line. Apart from Rocca (or Anthony if Rocca doesn't play) and Cloke Collingwood will be likely to play small, I don't see who there would be for Frawley to play on. Plus playing Martin off the bench instead of Frawley gives Melbourne more flexability. Martin could pinch hit in the ruck. Can't see Frawley doing that.

I wonder if robbo is any chance of a supprise call up?

By all reports he is close to playing and his "smarts" could have been well used last sunday regardless how underdone he is. I wonder?

The thing i dont get is people are prepared to give Newton a go but dont mention Dunn?

Dunn is bigger, stronger, works harder. Sorry he is 1cm shorter than newton

I think he is a way better prospect up forward than newton.

  Cards13 said:

Few years, hmmm... do you think he has a few years more on the list? I have had high hopes for the Bater but think he is one of the blokes who has reached a level and is struggling to get over the hump from potential to showing it on the park. Seems to lack pace, maybe stamina too and is poor below his waist. Dropped a sitter in the forward pocket that would have been a shot on goal in the 2nd term that cost us when we were on a run too. Needs to improve for mine to be around in a few more years. I do hope I am wrong and hope this is bumped if so!

Onwards and upwards.

And out the door...

Matthew Bate is a very smart footballer and I think he is a victim of the fact that he came 3rd in the Bluey when he was 20.

Stagnating over two years isn't a problem for me, we have time. And if he comes along from here as far as he came when he was 19/20 he will be a star.

As tall as Neitz and a better 'leader' (as in double leads, reverse leads, leading to space, etc.) he can be a good FF for the time being.

Give a bloke a chance.