Newton and the forward line

[btdemon 475]

Something that struck me about the game against Hawthorn was the impotence of our marking forwards (excluding Bate). With the abject failure of Newton to present as a speahead with any balls or effectiveness, I propose that we don't persist with him in the seniors for too long. Put him back to the VFL and make him demand a spot in the team. If he doesn't, then delist him. Sylvia should not be far behind him. Given that scenario, who do we rely to kick goals and create genuine pressure in forward 50. I propose this forward structure as an alternative;

Half Forward: Davey, Miller, Bate/Green

Forward: Aussie, P Johnson, Maric

With Aussie and Maric at ground level we need a large and powerful forward that can control ball at the contest and bring it to ground in an intelligent way. At least Johnson will present and make an effective contest. Newton's attempts are all about taking a screamer which he may do one in ten times. The other times he has no idea where the ball will end up and makes little attempt to keep the ball in the danger zone. Johnson could still relieve Jamar/Spencer in the ruck for 5-10 mins a quarter by bringing Bate or Green down to FF. Garland could also be tried at FF. We now have the stocks in defence to release Green to a more creative forward role.

With Robbo a few weeks away and the possibility of people like Jetta bobbing up later in the year and then Watts and Jurrah in a year or so then we should have great mobile forwards but we must draft for a power forward or two. This must the next priority.

[titan_uranus 22,752]

Well I agree about dropping Newton and making him earn his spot in the team. Miller definitely plays at CHF. I'm not conviced with PJ at FF because his kicking for goal isn't very good. Then again, I can't propose a better alternative (Watts and Jurrah will be there over the next few years, but not this year). Maybe Bate out of the goal square? Anything but Newton.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

The problem for me is I see both Bate and Miller as deep forward being their best position.

When Miller is at CHF he wanders too far and wide, and while he improved last year, he's still prone to costly turn overs by skills or bad decision making. It hurts twice as much when those turnovers are in the middle of the ground. I'd rather he just plucks it, and has a shot from 0 - 40.

Bate is absolutely terrible below his knees and has no turning circle. So he's no midfielder. He leads really well though as seen yesterday, and is a very reliable mark, kicking is hit or miss, but he looks like he's worked on set shots. I'd rather he was deep forward too.

Being bad below the knees and no turning circle aren't great attributes for a CHF, but that game he played against Port at the G was the best CHF display I've seen since the Ox.

So if I had to make a choice it'd be Bate at CHF and Miller as close to the goalsquare as possible.

I'd play PJ as a midfielder over Bate, seriously.

We won't have to worry about Newton being in anyone's way unless we get injuries. He's done.

[1858 238]

Our problem is that we have forwards but not goal kickers.

Watts and Jurrah are the two main prospects along with Maric who is a sharp shooter. They can't come into the side quick enough (I realise I am commenting on just one pre-season game) but there is no way in hell that we are going to rush those guys. Bate was impressive and I say that not only because of how many goals he kicked but because of his kicking technique. Bate and Green are probably two of our best shots at goal - steady, accurate and penetrating. If you look at Roughead yesterday, he had a quite game tbh it is just that he was slotting them from the boundary line. Rougheads kicking technique is superb, along with others like Fevola and Bradshaw. We just don't have this type of weapon in our arsenal yet. As a result we will bust a gut this year for limited reward on the score board - in most games anyway.

I doubt PJ is a realistic forward option. Aussie will be great for us as a close range goal kicker but apart from Bate I don't see any options unless Green is set in one area which we can't afford yet. When Robbo comes back it will help but he is not an answer to this problem. I think we will have (to a certain degree) to grin and bare it for a while until the newcomers start to get a gig.

[btdemon 475]

Actually, Zomer looks like a big bugger. Its a shame we can't do the old switcheroo and put him on the list and Newton off.

[MO FINE 147]

Something that struck me about the game against Hawthorn was the impotence of our marking forwards (excluding Bate). With the abject failure of Newton to present as a speahead with any balls or effectiveness, I propose that we don't persist with him in the seniors for too long. Put him back to the VFL and make him demand a spot in the team. If he doesn't, then delist him. Sylvia should not be far behind ...

I agree. Neither of them should be contemplated for roles in the forward line unless and until they prove themselves worthy on a regular basis at a lower level. In the meantime, we should seek to develop alternatives in attack. Find a way to elevate Spencer off the rookie list, move PJ into a key forward role, use Maric & Jetta as small crumbing goalkicking forwards and say goodbye to those players who don't display passion for the club and a hatred of losing.

[occo 2]

Something that struck me about the game against Hawthorn was the impotence of our marking forwards (excluding Bate). With the abject failure of Newton to present as a speahead with any balls or effectiveness, I propose that we don't persist with him in the seniors for too long. Put him back to the VFL and make him demand a spot in the team. If he doesn't, then delist him. Sylvia should not be far behind him. Given that scenario, who do we rely to kick goals and create genuine pressure in forward 50. I propose this forward structure as an alternative;

Half Forward: Davey, Miller, Bate/Green

Forward: Aussie, P Johnson, Maric

With Aussie and Maric at ground level we need a large and powerful forward that can control ball at the contest and bring it to ground in an intelligent way. At least Johnson will present and make an effective contest. Newton's attempts are all about taking a screamer which he may do one in ten times. The other times he has no idea where the ball will end up and makes little attempt to keep the ball in the danger zone. Johnson could still relieve Jamar/Spencer in the ruck for 5-10 mins a quarter by bringing Bate or Green down to FF. Garland could also be tried at FF. We now have the stocks in defence to release Green to a more creative forward role.

With Robbo a few weeks away and the possibility of people like Jetta bobbing up later in the year and then Watts and Jurrah in a year or so then we should have great mobile forwards but we must draft for a power forward or two. This must the next priority.

Good post but remember none of the rookies are coming into the team till we either get a long term injury or wait till round 11. If PJ plays FF then Jamar is the only ruckman out there unless Meeson plays.

[Jarka 767]

I've been going on about a lack of key forwards for the last 3 years, so much so that I think that anyone who has been visiting this site during that time got fed up with my whinging.

Sadly it's right though. Miller does his best work up the ground, PJ is a battler, Bate is ok but not the answer, Newton is Newton and Watts is currently a match stick.

Watts will be a gun but we need at least another two to get the best out of him. There's no point in only having one good forward, it's just too easy to defend.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Actually, Zomer looks like a big bugger. Its a shame we can't do the old switcheroo and put him on the list and Newton off.

That'd be like putting a VL motor in a bigger frame - just cos it looks more impressive don't mean it is

[btdemon 475]

I've been going on about a lack of key forwards for the last 3 years, so much so that I think that anyone who has been visiting this site during that time got fed up with my whinging.

Sadly it's right though. Miller does his best work up the ground, PJ is a battler, Bate is ok but not the answer, Newton is Newton and Watts is currently a match stick.

Watts will be a gun but we need at least another two to get the best out of him. There's no point in only having one good forward, it's just too easy to defend.

Yes Watts will be gun but he won't be a power forward like Buddy, Brown, even Neita etc.

[Redleg 38,030]

That'd be like putting a VL motor in a bigger frame - just cos it looks more impressive don't mean it is

It would be an absolute impossibility for him to be worse. If he lay down on the ground and slept through the whole game he would be better, at least he wouldn't be giving away silly frees and disposing of the ball straight to the opposition.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

That'd be like putting a VL motor in a bigger frame - just cos it looks more impressive don't mean it is

newton runs on 4cylinders,zomer runs on 6,newton should be shipped off to a GULAG in SIBERIA.

[demonsflag555657 3]

If newton gets an long term injury well problem solved.

[Ewok 9]

Newton is not AFL standard.

[Dee tention 611]

Robertson is a walk in once he fully recovers and gets match fitness with Casey. But I dont know how long he will be.

I would persist with Bate as a leading Full Forward out of the square and see what he can do given a bit of time there. Garland should also be tried forward with others to fill the backline. eg. Petterd, Grimes, even Cheney.

I believe Bruce should also be tried forward on a permanent basis. He is creative and can make space and kick a goal.

My forward line for ROUND 1

HF: Bruce Miller Davey

FF: Garland Bate Aussie

Robertson possibly to replace Garland when ready.

[Gandalf46 132]

Robertson is a walk in once he fully recovers and gets match fitness with Casey. But I dont know how long he will be.

I would persist with Bate as a leading Full Forward out of the square and see what he can do given a bit of time there. Garland should also be tried forward with others to fill the backline. eg. Petterd, Grimes, even Cheney.

I believe Bruce should also be tried forward on a permanent basis. He is creative and can make space and kick a goal.

My forward line for ROUND 1

HF: Bruce Miller Davey

FF: Garland Bate Aussie

Robertson possibly to replace Garland when ready.

I like it!... and have PJ move in at FF on the odd guest appearance just to shake things up.

[Adzman 2,085]

I have been high on Newton for a few years now. I hoping he could be an elite forward for years to come.

I still am, that aside I am worried he may have blown his chances at AFL level. 2008 should have been his year, and it was anything but. 2009 is going down the same path, and with a side as weak as we have it should be as easy as pie for a guy with his size and talent to shine through and win some fan love. This is not the case. Seems disinterested, a tad lazy and scared of a contest.

I hope this changes, because the truth is there is not anyone on the demons list that is ready to pin down the role at FF with Robbo out. Jurrah and Watts are not ready, and will be given time to adjust. PJ is an agile man, could do the trick but he may be wasted down there.

Bater is too good a mark, and should be used up the ground for a contest.

Miller is solid, but cannot kick goals like a FF should. Better him be further out from goal.

[montasaurus 0]

I actually thought newtons game on saturday was a step forward for him. Certainly in the 1st half his defensive pressure was much better then much of 08. He just strikes me as being 1 good game away from getting the confidence he needs. I wonder if it will happen?

He has the ability, finishes well so for me is worth persiting with even if it is at VFL level. There are not many good young talls these days so until watts and jurrah can come through we have to give him an opportunity. Good chance he could be gone at the end of the year though if he doesn't step up. The other option is if spencer is elevated either jamar or PJ can play the big man role. But the way i see it neither of these guys offer any more the newton as a deep forward.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You set a very low pass mark Monty.

If the Club is serious then it wont tolerate lairish flaccid half events from any player. He gave us nothing and is going nowhere. Our lack of obvious forward replacements should not save a player that shows not one iota of football sense and focus.

Unfortunately we have him contracted into 2010.

[montasaurus 0]

You set a very low pass mark Monty.

If the Club is serious then it wont tolerate lairish flaccid half events from any player. He gave us nothing and is going nowhere. Our lack of obvious forward replacements should not save a player that shows not one iota of football sense and focus.

Unfortunately we have him contracted into 2010.

I think the low pass mark was set by the man in question last year.

like I said I felt there was some improvement from last year, so your right there was a very low mark. I guess what I was saying was if last year you could have marked newton for 5/100 in most games, his game sat might have been marked at 8/100 due to increased defensive pressure. A little step forward!

I do agree with you re replacements hence why VFL is the option to further development, especially if another target is found in the mean time. Zomers development will be one of the most interesting at casey this year. If he starts kicking bags the club may have a big decision mid year (spencer, Valenti, Zomer).

It will be interesting to see what happens in the practice matches over the next couple of weeks. Martin, Garland, Johnson, Green/Bruce all marking options to play deep. I like Brad Green to play deep in a brad johnson type role. Far more value then floating in the back line IMO.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hardly worth defending Monty. Either way its not anywhere near good enough. For Newton, the VFL is a final resting place. He does not have between the ears and he is now in his 5th year at the Club and cannot apply rudimentary skills or application. The best thing going for Zomer is that he is big and that Newton is horrible. He played VFL 2nds last year and showed little. Aside from training the house down what has Zomer done to compete for call up.

The Club has no big decisions mid year. Its clear cut. If Spenser continues his form, then we need to elevate him. If Valenti is going to be elevated. He would have been so at the final cut for 2009.

The forward line is a problem and aside from experiementing with Garland forward, the others are fair weather pinch hitters at best up forward who might have a day out if the planets line up but cant tie the position down.

[montasaurus 0]

The Club has no big decisions mid year. Its clear cut. If Spenser continues his form, then we need to elevate him. If Valenti is going to be elevated. He would have been so at the final cut for 2009.

A bit early to make this call I think.

If (a big if) jamar holds down #1 ruck and PJ continues to develop and zomer steps up at VFL level as a KPF there could be a big decision to make. I have never been a big fan of valenti but he continues to be noticed when given opportunities so again if he continues to develop and we are struggling in the middle you never know. For now lets cross our fingers zomer presses hard for selection as it will only be a good thing for our list.

Also I can't see how playing 2nds last year is relevant as he was playing at the sautner football club and any young tall forward would have struggled for a game! One of the reasons were are now where we are with casey. Surely its this year we are interested in and the one game we have seen from Zomer, he was OK-even Good.

[titan_uranus 22,752]

The Club has no big decisions mid year. Its clear cut. If Spenser continues his form, then we need to elevate him. If Valenti is going to be elevated. He would have been so at the final cut for 2009.

Agree. I must admit, I was surprised that Valenti wasn't elevated, but the fact that he wasn't suggests that the coaches need more convincing. Besides which, which kind of player does Melbourne need: another short, slow, stocky midfielder with average to good skills, or a ruckman? Obviously, Spencer is ahead of Valenti in the queue, and I wouldn't be surprised if Zomer is as well.

[mo64 5,260]

If Valenti is going to be elevated. He would have been so at the final cut for 2009.

So why keep him on as a rookie if he's no chance of being elevated? And in another post you bemoaned our lack of centre square clearance players. Valenti is probably our 3rd best clearance player after McLean and McDonald.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

A bit early to make this call I think.

If (a big if) jamar holds down #1 ruck and PJ continues to develop and zomer steps up at VFL level as a KPF there could be a big decision to make. I have never been a big fan of valenti but he continues to be noticed when given opportunities so again if he continues to develop and we are struggling in the middle you never know. For now lets cross our fingers zomer presses hard for selection as it will only be a good thing for our list.

Also I can't see how playing 2nds last year is relevant as he was playing at the sautner football club and any young tall forward would have struggled for a game! One of the reasons were are now where we are with casey. Surely its this year we are interested in and the one game we have seen from Zomer, he was OK-even Good.

No it isnt. Jamar is filling a spot and is No 1 ruck by default. Spencer showed why PJ is a 200cm rover. PJ cant mark over his head and cant kick goals when he indeed is given the opportunity. We recruited Grimes, Bennell, Jetta, Bail, Maric and Blease

and they are well ahead of where Valenti is.

Nick Sautner did not block Zomer. Zomer struggled at VFL 2nds and did not push for inclusion. Given Neitz retired mid season and we gave Newton some free runs in the AFL, there was stacks of opportunity.

If Zomer has anything, he is a good chance to for future years. Its a big hope and he may not even make it.

And its not common for side to call up a rookie on the main due to LTI. If MFC does have this, Spencer is a real chance. The others are not even in cooee.