Can we stay in the AFL if 2009 is as bad as 2008?

[Demon trucker 1,800]

The Demons can no longer afford to stay in the AFL.

Reading the club's profit and loss statement, Melbourne is going to lose more money next year.

First, lost money from Waverley Park. We have received the last instalment - that's 250k lost,

Secondly, if there's no major sponsor found, we lose 1m. The club lost moneny from corporates and next year the corporates are going to spend less. If the corporates spend half as much the club loses 500k.

Thirdly, the debt demolition raised $3m. You can't raise a another 3m next year - you therefore lose 3m.

In summary:-

1. Waverley 250k

2. No major sponsor 1m

3. Debt demo 3m

Total shortfall $4.25m

Can anyone tell me please where are they going to find this money?

we will get 1m from mcc 1m from afl still a lose of 2.25 m

[Guest Schtacker]

"culb lost moneny from copret"

yeah good onya 'hot boy' we are all really interested in your financial expertise

[Demon trucker 1,800]

i cant spell but where is the money coming from is what i am asking not whether i can spell

[rpfc 28,779]

Seriously hoping English is your second language...

Finances are tough, but we will survive. A sponsor will come, memberships will exceed records, and AFL/MCC funding will be put to good use.

Give us a stadium in Casey and we might even thrive.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Apart from the fact that your post looks like it has been typed by a chimp, it is a fair question. $3.5 million is a large deficit for a 12 month period, and even when we do get a sponsor and increased membership, we will need a lot more than that. But Im confident this board knows what it is doing and will make the right calls.

The AFL made us cut our costs substantially IIRC, such as only paying the minimum of our salary cap, which would be around $800k saved from last year. There would be other cost cutting measures I am sure, and hopefully the board can generate some revenue from somewhere.

[Jarka 767]

R.I.P. the English language.

Our current financial position is probably just as bad (or even worse) than Fitzroy's last couple of years, things have to change if we're going to continue in our present form.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Cheers Vince, I was under the impression that this place is about passionate Melbourne supporters sharing thier views, regardless of thier english ability. Many share your view but things have certainly taken a step with the club facing thier demons and at least putting a plan together to fut up a real fight.

We have a plan off the field and if we can begin to put it together on the field I am warmly optimistic about our future. If you are a member Vince good on you, if not get yourself one. That is where the money will come from and when this is healthy, and with a bit of success and stability the corporate dollars will come.

[Jarka 767]

Cheers Vince, I was under the impression that this place is about passionate Melbourne supporters sharing thier views, regardless of thier english ability. Many share your view but things have certainly taken a step with the club facing thier demons and at least putting a plan together to fut up a real fight.

We have a plan off the field and if we can begin to put it together on the field I am warmly optimistic about our future. If you are a member Vince good on you, if not get yourself one. That is where the money will come from and when this is healthy, and with a bit of success and stability the corporate dollars will come.

It's not that hard to construct a semi decent sentence, it also takes just a couple of seconds to proof read your posts. The result is a post that is easy to read and decipher.

Look, perhaps I'm being too harsh but it's one of my pet hates, mobile phones and sms speak have had a terrible effect on our language.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

It's not that hard to construct a semi decent sentence, it also takes just a couple of seconds to proof read your posts. The result is a post that is easy to read and decipher.

Look, perhaps I'm being too harsh but it's one of my pet hates, mobile phones and sms speak have had a terrible effect on our language.

I get that but

-not everyone was raised with english as thier first language

-not everyone has access to an equal education

-some supporters are labourers, panel beaters and garbos and are as good at what they do as you are.

I think some need to get off their high horse otherwise we risk perpetuating myths about Melbourne supporters. In our own little way this is supporting a type of exclusion. This site has the ability to break that down.

If we want this club to grow and prosper let's embrace all our supporters.

Vince is concerned about our club and his question is legitimate and valid.

[Jarka 767]

I get that but

-not everyone was raised with english as thier first language

-not everyone has access to an equal education

-some supporters are labourers, panel beaters and garbos and are as good at what they do as you are.

I think some need to get off their high horse otherwise we risk perpetuating myths about Melbourne supporters. In our own little way this is supporting a type of excluson. This site has the ability to break that down.

It we want this club to grow and prosper lets embrace all our supporters.

Vince is concerned about our club and his question is legitimate and valid.

I know alot of people who originated from countries where English is the 3rd or even 4th language spoken. In most, if not all cases, their English is better than mine. I don't accept that as being the reason for the majority of poor posts seen on internet forums. The majority of time it's just pure laziness. If someone is too lazy to proof read their posts to make it easier to read then sadly their posts aren't taken too seriously, I'm not trying to be personal, it's just the way it is

I work with alot of people in professions as the ones you mentioned above and I have never had correspondence from them in as poor condition as the opening post.

Regardless, he made some excellent points, it's a reality that every Melbourne fan should be aware of.

[Tex 68]

I know alot of people who originated from countries where English is the 3rd or even 4th language spoken. In most, if not all cases, their English is better than mine. I don't accept that as being the reason for the majority of poor posts seen on internet forums. The majority of time it's just pure laziness. If someone is too lazy to proof read their posts to make it easier to read then sadly their posts aren't taken too seriously, I'm not trying to be personal, it's just the way it is

I work with alot of people in professions as the ones you mentioned above and I have never had correspondence from them in as poor condition as the opening post.

Regardless, he made some excellent points, it's a reality that every Melbourne fan should be aware of.

Keep posting Vince, we need all the supporters we can get.

[LeBron James 41]

Next year we won't have to pay out 2 CEO's. We will be saving around 700,000 in the TPP, and hopefully less injury payments overall.

We won't have to do a further write-down on the Bentleigh club next year, which is another 1 million. Combined with better onfield performances hopefully we will draw larger crowds to our matches, so gate reciepts increase. Not to mention the increase of funding from the MCC (another 500K) and the increase in memberships (3000 extra memberships = ~$600,000).

Also, with Stynes and Schwab on the board for the full year i'm sure they will be able to keep costs to a minimum. I'm confident we'll pull through.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Does anyone know when we started to go backwards? ie how long did it take us to accrue all of this debt?

[Jarka 767]

Does anyone know when we started to go backwards? ie how long did it take us to accrue all of this debt?

When Tiger Ridley was in control of the club we had money in the bank and were one of the few clubs to not operate in debt. The rot started with Gutnick and the people he brought onto the board.

[John Dee 445]

When Tiger Ridley was in control of the club we had money in the bank and were one of the few clubs to not operate in debt. The rot started with Gutnick and the people he brought onto the board.

Umm ...

We were in heaps of debt. If we were not, the directors would not have pushed the merger with Hawthorn. Tiger only did that as what he saw as the last resort to prevent the club from going under.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Leaving blame of this person and such board aside. How much money have we been losing per year since the 80s on average? How much money did Gutnick put in? What will it take to stop this club pushing the emergency button every 5-7 years to ask for a white knight or a debt demolition?

An extra million a year? 2 million? How many members do we need to sign on each year to balance the books, 30k, is it enough?

[Dalrot 85]

Umm ...

We were in heaps of debt. If we were not, the directors would not have pushed the merger with Hawthorn. Tiger only did that as what he saw as the last resort to prevent the club from going under.

Pretty sure that's incorrect.

Hawthorn were the ones in financial troubles during those times.

[dee-tox 4,835]

Pretty sure that's incorrect.

Hawthorn were the ones in financial troubles during those times.

Correct! Under Ridley we had reserves of 3 or 4 million from memory. In my opinion it was Szondy and subsequent admins that sent us broke.

[wonderman 0]

I've done a bit of modeling on next year's result. All things going our way of course, there is the possibility of delivering a $600k profit. This is if everything goes our way, including we sign on a sponsor. I've also taken out app. $600k in termination fees to do with Carol, McNamme and the other guy Harris. I think this is probably understated a bit. I couldn't really be stuffed working out the exact figure because the report isn't too detailed.

This does not include the special $2 million we're receiving in assistance, which I did not add. My thoughts are that this should be used to pay off our remaining debt. I haven't changed the $7m in distributions figure as I'm not to sure if the extra $2m will affect this.

You can see from the spread sheet below that my figures are very simple with not much tinkering to this year's. Gate receipts increased by about $100k as well as a $500k increase in membership. There is no real mathematics behind the figures, just guestimites as to what could happen if things turn into our favor.

Obviously this means sh*t all if we don't sign on a sponsor.

[dee-luded 2,959]

i cant spell but where is the money coming from is what i am asking not whether i can spell

If the Dees struggle for corporate & other revenue next year due to the fiscal downturn, we won't be alone, & if it is that bad across the board, then the AFL will not bring in new licences @ the expense of existing clubs with their relevant supporter bases.

If clubs feel the strain across the board, then I'm sure the AFL will have to resort to more socialistically democratic ways to make the existing competition survive.

[Guest melbman]

I've done a bit of modeling on next year's result.

Thanks for that wonderman. I realise it was a rough reckoner but it is still interesting

You've done what some of us would have liked to do but for whatever reason didn't

[wonderman 0]

Thanks for that wonderman. I realise it was a rough reckoner but it is still interesting

You've done what some of us would have liked to do but for whatever reason didn't

Yeah they're very rough. It's important to realise that the figure can change so easily as well. A slight drop in corporate revenue/membership etc. can turn our fortunes around into a heavy loss. Cheers.

[casey scorp 2]

I've done a bit of modeling on next year's result. All things going our way of course, there is the possibility of delivering a $600k profit. This is if everything goes our way, including we sign on a sponsor. I've also taken out app. $600k in termination fees to do with Carol, McNamme and the other guy Harris. I think this is probably understated a bit. I couldn't really be stuffed working out the exact figure because the report isn't too detailed.

This does not include the special $2 million we're receiving in assistance, which I did not add. My thoughts are that this should be used to pay off our remaining debt. I haven't changed the $7m in distributions figure as I'm not to sure if the extra $2m will affect this.

You can see from the spread sheet below that my figures are very simple with not much tinkering to this year's. Gate receipts increased by about $100k as well as a $500k increase in membership. There is no real mathematics behind the figures, just guestimites as to what could happen if things turn into our favor.

Obviously this means sh*t all if we don't sign on a sponsor.

You've reduced expenses, which is admirable.

However you've reduced adminstration expenses from $3.034 million to $280,000 (you've left a 0 off - I think you meant to make it $2.8 million).

That makes a loss of $1.83 million, if all the other figures stay the same.

[Jarka 767]

Umm ...

We were in heaps of debt. If we were not, the directors would not have pushed the merger with Hawthorn. Tiger only did that as what he saw as the last resort to prevent the club from going under.

Wrong.

Tiger did what he did because he knew that we weren't going to be able to compete with the interstate and bigger Vic clubs in the future. The only thing he didn't predict was the AFL and it's CBF. We were not in debt before Gutnick and the people he brought onto the board got control of the club.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

When Tiger Ridley was in control of the club we had money in the bank and were one of the few clubs to not operate in debt. The rot started with Gutnick and the people he brought onto the board.

Does very one have short memories, it was not gutnick who started all the debt, when gabriel szondy got reed of gutnick we had no debt, for three years under szondy we went from 500k in the black to 5m in the red, one of the main reasons for this is for three years when the speacel fund that is avalible for under preforming clubs, from the afl which was 1 m a year the bulldogs said thankyou we will take it, then North said thank you, but szondy said no we dont need it, we are just doing fine thank you and all the waile we wree losing 1.5 m a year. i am sick and tied of everyone blaming gutnick how many other people have given the club 3 m.everyone forgets about szondy i dont know why he put as in all this debt just because of his own pride in rejecting the money.