State your draft preferences

[Demons 32 235]

When I first saw Deboer move he reminded me of a young Geoff Raines. He really does have nice balance with a low centre of gravity. But on the day I saw him at Casey Fields his kicking was terrible. Twice running into an open goal from 30 metres under little pressure he sprayed them everywhere. I like what I see, but his kicking is a concern.

I hope we don't get Mitch Robinson. He's tall, takes the game on, but he just doesn't reek of class. He reminds me of a rich mans Josh Thurgood, the gutsy Hawthorn redhead with bad skills. I did say 'Rich' mans.

I also like Zaharakis, but as time has gone on I wonder whether picks 17 or 19 are too early for him. He'll be a really solid AFL citizen, but I'm hoping for a bit more.

Make no mistake, this is the most important draft in Melbourne's recent history. Melbourne need to unearth a couple of out and out stars in this draft. Even down to pick 51 we should get a very good player, such is the strength of the draft. I'm hoping we pick players with class that have genuine upside to become stars of the competition and I'm not sure that Robinson or Zaharakis fall into that category. We need more than just good footballers, we really need some stars.

O'Keefe and Schoenmakers are 2 classic left footers who'd be in the top 3 or 4 kicks in the draft - just behind Rich, and they both love a contest. Schoenmakers has grown to 194cms, is a good mark and placed in the top 10 for quickest over 20 metres at DC. I salivate at the thought of Watts and Schoenmakers roaming the front half of the ground. O'Keefe is hard at it, 187cms, a good mark, was named on a hbf in the AA side after the under 18 Carnival and won South Australia's award for most valuable player. A running midfield role beckons. Importantly, both have x factor.

Now I know that there's not a hope in Haiti that I'll get what I want, but it's still fun analysing the likely prospects. It's a long wait til draft day.

I get what your saying. However I disagree in a sense, Shoenmakers will be a good player but I just really think you are over rating him.

In regards to your Robinson/Thurgood comparison id say you need to change that to a very very rich mans Thurgood, not really understanding the comparison, different positions and many many different traits.

O'Keefe is one that I like alot and very much agree with you that he would be great, id be more than happy with O'keefe.

I think you are underating Zaharakis' ability to be a star, a strong midfielder who plays with great passion and kicks goals always has potential to be a star in the AFL. Lets not forget it's not all about X factor, Xavier Ellis is no flashy player at Hawthorn but his in integral to their 22. He is a strong leader, has a big kick and good skills, definately worth a top 20 pick. He is the one player other than Watts im desperate for, I honestly think the Saints might nab him at pick 13 though.

But I would love this guy at the Dees next season.

Deboer is the type of player that could slide, or could be missed by Victorians and the WA sides pick up a star mid from their own backyard. His skills aren't always perfect but either are Mortons and im damn happy with him in our side.

He is a clearance machine, not some inside mid like we already have, but a player who can win his own ball and set up play, I'll tell you right now Rich wouldn't look half as good as he does without Deboer, every bit of footage you see of Rich is usually started by a great handpass or sheperd from Deboer.

As you say it is a long wait, I would be happy with O'keefe at 17 or 19, but really think Deboer/Zaharakis is also needed. At least we agree on Watts.

[Hannabal 4]

The skill of the best recruiters is not judging, or selecting, based on what a player has done to date, but what one's innate feelings tell you they're capable of. In other words, their upside.

I'd love Schoenmakers and don't believe that I overrate his potential as an AFL player.

We'll just have to disagree on Robinson. He's quite highly rated, but his skills are too lacking for mine. I want genuine class in the top 20 and don't see it with him. I'm not saying that he won't succeeed as an AFL player, but he doesn't excite me when I compare him to others.

[Demons 32 235]

The skill of the best recruiters is not judging, or selecting, based on what a player has done to date, but what one's innate feelings tell you they're capable of. In other words, their upside.

I'd love Schoenmakers and don't believe that I overrate his potential as an AFL player.

We'll just have to disagree on Robinson. He's quite highly rated, but his skills are too lacking for mine. I want genuine class in the top 20 and don't see it with him. I'm not saying that he won't succeeed as an AFL player, but he doesn't excite me when I compare him to others.

I could say all the same things regarding Deboer and/or Zaharakis. Any argument could be made for any player who is a possible top 20.

All things true it is extremely difficult for even the best recruiters to understand the scope of a players improvement at AFL level. I do not claim any of these players to be potential stars. Not even Watts.

It is near impossible to see how all players will perform at AFL level, alot of it is gut feeling and guess work due to what they have seen, what the players on field attitude is and what the players off field attitude is. Without looking at somethings past you cannot acurately judge it's future.

Something that is often forgotten when discussing young players skill errors and fitness etc is that they are currently being coached in a non-advanced system. Training 2 times a week with their current clubs. The AFL system is a 9-5 job, players are at the club almost everyday, if an AFL coach cannot teach a young player how to kick properly then he shouldn't have a job.

Alot of the time a player with poor disposal might have the slightest thing wrong with their kicking style that could dramatically change their style of play, thus showing why it is so hard to judge a players future purely on gut feel. For a player to become anygood you need alot of other great things, coaching, determination and persistence but most importantly luck.

If a recruiter was to choose a player on a gut feel over a player with any questionable attribute then he is not doing his job correctly.

I think Shoenmakers will be a good AFL player, I do not rate him top 20 at all, which is ok, we can disagree on that. This draft has incredible depth the top 40 players should all be good. It is times like this I wish we had another top 30 pick, as Shoenmakers would be an ideal pick 25. He could potentially be a very good player, but I hate the word potential in the top 20, thus why I don't want Naitanui.

Regardless with everything we are saying, the only player I honestly believe can be a star is Zaharakis, based purely on his ability to kick goals and his spirit, and even then I contradict myself, because spirit is a gut feel on my part.

The draft is an impossible task and thats why the much maligned recruiting guru's of the AFL have one of the toughest jobs in football. If your gut is right, your a hero, if it's wrong, your a massive failure, for every success there is a failure.

It's a cruel game predicitng talent.

[Freak 100]

I could say all the same things regarding Deboer and/or Zaharakis. Any argument could be made for any player who is a possible top 20.

All things true it is extremely difficult for even the best recruiters to understand the scope of a players improvement at AFL level. I do not claim any of these players to be potential stars. Not even Watts.

It is near impossible to see how all players will perform at AFL level, alot of it is gut feeling and guess work due to what they have seen, what the players on field attitude is and what the players off field attitude is. Without looking at somethings past you cannot acurately judge it's future.

Something that is often forgotten when discussing young players skill errors and fitness etc is that they are currently being coached in a non-advanced system. Training 2 times a week with their current clubs. The AFL system is a 9-5 job, players are at the club almost everyday, if an AFL coach cannot teach a young player how to kick properly then he shouldn't have a job.

Alot of the time a player with poor disposal might have the slightest thing wrong with their kicking style that could dramatically change their style of play, thus showing why it is so hard to judge a players future purely on gut feel. For a player to become anygood you need alot of other great things, coaching, determination and persistence but most importantly luck.

If a recruiter was to choose a player on a gut feel over a player with any questionable attribute then he is not doing his job correctly.

I think Shoenmakers will be a good AFL player, I do not rate him top 20 at all, which is ok, we can disagree on that. This draft has incredible depth the top 40 players should all be good. It is times like this I wish we had another top 30 pick, as Shoenmakers would be an ideal pick 25. He could potentially be a very good player, but I hate the word potential in the top 20, thus why I don't want Naitanui.

Regardless with everything we are saying, the only player I honestly believe can be a star is Zaharakis, based purely on his ability to kick goals and his spirit, and even then I contradict myself, because spirit is a gut feel on my part.

The draft is an impossible task and thats why the much maligned recruiting guru's of the AFL have one of the toughest jobs in football. If your gut is right, your a hero, if it's wrong, your a massive failure, for every success there is a failure.

It's a cruel game predicitng talent.

we'll get strauss. best kick in the draft. seems obvious

[Demons 32 235]

we'll get strauss. best kick in the draft. seems obvious

At what pick?

People said the same about Morton last year, pressures of AFL can mess with a players skill set...

[Freak 100]

meh what people. i know i didnt.

[Hannabal 4]

I could say all the same things regarding Deboer and/or Zaharakis. Any argument could be made for any player who is a possible top 20.

All things true it is extremely difficult for even the best recruiters to understand the scope of a players improvement at AFL level. I do not claim any of these players to be potential stars. Not even Watts.

It is near impossible to see how all players will perform at AFL level, alot of it is gut feeling and guess work due to what they have seen, what the players on field attitude is and what the players off field attitude is. Without looking at somethings past you cannot acurately judge it's future.

Something that is often forgotten when discussing young players skill errors and fitness etc is that they are currently being coached in a non-advanced system. Training 2 times a week with their current clubs. The AFL system is a 9-5 job, players are at the club almost everyday, if an AFL coach cannot teach a young player how to kick properly then he shouldn't have a job.

Alot of the time a player with poor disposal might have the slightest thing wrong with their kicking style that could dramatically change their style of play, thus showing why it is so hard to judge a players future purely on gut feel. For a player to become anygood you need alot of other great things, coaching, determination and persistence but most importantly luck.

If a recruiter was to choose a player on a gut feel over a player with any questionable attribute then he is not doing his job correctly.

I think Shoenmakers will be a good AFL player, I do not rate him top 20 at all, which is ok, we can disagree on that. This draft has incredible depth the top 40 players should all be good. It is times like this I wish we had another top 30 pick, as Shoenmakers would be an ideal pick 25. He could potentially be a very good player, but I hate the word potential in the top 20, thus why I don't want Naitanui.

Regardless with everything we are saying, the only player I honestly believe can be a star is Zaharakis, based purely on his ability to kick goals and his spirit, and even then I contradict myself, because spirit is a gut feel on my part.

The draft is an impossible task and thats why the much maligned recruiting guru's of the AFL have one of the toughest jobs in football. If your gut is right, your a hero, if it's wrong, your a massive failure, for every success there is a failure.

It's a cruel game predicitng talent.

I don't have a problem with any of that, although this sentence could be reconstructed "If a recruiter was to choose a player on a gut feel over a player with any questionable attribute then he is not doing his job correctly." And ultimately gut feel is what one needs to rely upon once all the analytical work has been done and all things are relatively equal. Judgment calls need to be made.

Robinson doesn't move, or dispose of the ball with as much class as many others in this draft. I don't see star factor. I like Zaharakis and I love the way Deboer moves, but given a choice I've a few ahead of them. I like Strauss too, but sharing an opinion with Freak already has me questioning my view.

Anyway, we'll know how they're rated soon enough, but even then it's subjective until 2013.

[Yze_Magic 3]

it would be the poorest rating show in history

Aint that the truth.

[dee-luded 2,959]

It is near impossible to see how all players will perform at AFL level, alot of it is gut feeling and guess work due to what they have seen, what the players on field attitude is and what the players off field attitude is. Without looking at somethings past you cannot acurately judge it's future.

I think Shoenmakers will be a good AFL player, I do not rate him top 20 at all, which is ok, we can disagree on that. This draft has incredible depth the top 40 players should all be good. It is times like this I wish we had another top 30 pick, as Shoenmakers would be an ideal pick 25.

What is it you think is missing with Shoenmakers?

[Freak 100]

What is it you think is missing with Shoenmakers?

well i personally think he is worth it but his load up time to kick ball is too slow(similar to bate) and we dont have official clarification that he is in fact key position height

[Hannabal 4]

well i personally think he is worth it but his load up time to kick ball is too slow(similar to bate) and we dont have official clarification that he is in fact key position height

For those that haven't seen Schoenmakers here's a quick glance:

Nothing wrong with his load time.

[dee-luded 2,959]

well i personally think he is worth it but his load up time to kick ball is too slow(similar to bate) and we dont have official clarification that he is in fact key position height

I don't want to recruit him as a CHF - F/F - (Power forward), for me thats Watts.

I want him (Shoenmaker) to play as a tall forward/midfielder roaming around the forwardline & deep into the midfield winning posessions & setting up play as well as kicking his own goals. (Adam Goodes style).

He's a very mobile tall kid who plays well below his knees, spots targets well, does the one percenters, a quick thinker, busy player who gets involved, uses his body well.

We could still pickup a Roughhead or someone like, in the 3rd round if we need.

(I want Butcher (Power Forward) next year, to add some forward grunt in our tall forwards.)

[Guest SmokeScreen]

1. Best available: Jack Watts

17,19. One KPP, One Mid: unless a bargain slides to us, hopefully two of: Shaun Mckernan, Blease, Trengrove, Tom Swift, Ryan Schoenmakers, James Strauss, Rhys Okeefe

35. Best Available KPF: Cornelius, Cahill

51. Best available ruckman: maybe Redden if he slides

my prefences are in bold.

I think with this draft we need to load up on KPPs, and look at bolstering our midfield in future drafts. My reasoning for this is list managment, KPP take longer to develope and mature physically; about 3-4 years (depends on the player of course) while midfielders can come in and have an impact much earlier in their careers. This means in theory that when we are challanging for a finals berth and hopefully a flag in 2011-13 our spine should be settled and ready for senior footy.

[Demons 32 235]

What is it you think is missing with Shoenmakers?

I don't think anything is majorly wrong with him, any other year he would be easy top 20 and probably pushing top 10. But in this draft, with this much incredible depth, I think he gets slightly pushed out because of how good some of the other players are. I maintain that pick 30 in this draft is like having pick 12-15 in a normal draft.

I do rate him, hell id like to get him, but pick 17/19 for some reason seems a stretch to me in this draft. To be honest nothing would bother me if we took him at 17 or 19, as long as we got the best available mid with one of those pics.

Be it Blease, Zaharakis, Deboer etc.

[Keepin up with the Joneses 48]

For those that haven't seen Schoenmakers here's a quick glance:

Nothing wrong with his load time.

I hadn't seen that before

Where do I sign?

Looks like Ryan O'keefe

[Hannabal 4]

I hadn't seen that before

Where do I sign?

Looks like Ryan O'keefe

Taller, faster, 10 years younger.

[Keepin up with the Joneses 48]

Taller, faster, 10 years younger.

As good though?

[Hannabal 4]

As good though?

Time will tell.

We need him to be better.

[mo64 5,874]

Time will tell.

We need him to be better.

The most promising thing of his highlights reel was the vision he showed with his 1st kick, which was on his non-preferred right foot. Most left footers struggle kicking with their right foot, but he seemed natural.

[Guest Golgothan]

well i personally think he is worth it but his load up time to kick ball is too slow(similar to bate) and we dont have official clarification that he is in fact key position height

His height was measured at draft camp and it's meant to be +194cm, so there's no query over him being KP height. I'd be happy with Shoenmakers at 19.

I think there's a few groups of KP players, and Shoenmakers would be at the earlier 2nd round group, probably similar to Cornelius. I'd much rather Shoenmakers then Cornelius.

[Hannabal 4]

The most promising thing of his highlights reel was the vision he showed with his 1st kick, which was on his non-preferred right foot. Most left footers struggle kicking with their right foot, but he seemed natural.

I noticed that too, Mo. It was quick thinking and looked natural. The 'load time' on his non preferred wasn't a problem either.

For those yet to see any of Rhys O'Keefe here's a snippet of footage. He's a strong bodied left footer who gets involved in the contest (187cms) A good pickup at around pick 19, but Strauss, Broadbent and a couple of others would also be great.

[Demons 32 235]

I think there's a few groups of KP players, and Shoenmakers would be at the earlier 2nd round group, probably similar to Cornelius. I'd much rather Shoenmakers then Cornelius.

I do agree with that comment, would much rather Shoenmakers than Cornelius.

[Guest Late Draft Pick]

O'Keefe reminds me of Riccuitto, and not just because he is left-footed.

Very balanced and very involved in the game.

[mo64 5,874]

O'Keefe reminds me of Riccuitto, and not just because he is left-footed.

Very balanced and very involved in the game.

O'Keefe probably looked very involved in the game because it was a highlights package of him B)

BTW, Riccuitto wasn't a left footer.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Nor a half back