Had me cringing, three shocking play-ons that ended ugly. I presume he's under instructions to move the ball on quickly whenever he gets his hands on it. The mucked up kick for goal, right in front of the goal-square, was laughable.

Twice he had opportunity to go back and kick to a target but handballed to a player who was surrounded and immediately tackled - turnover! Does he never THINK?? I suspect with White, we might have snatched the win.

BTW heard a whisper the Dees will be aggressively seeking a big-name forward. Good source. We'll see...

Had me cringing, three shocking play-ons that ended ugly. I presume he's under instructions to move the ball on quickly whenever he gets his hands on it. The mucked up kick for goal, right in front of the goal-square, was laughable.

Twice he had opportunity to go back and kick to a target but handballed to a player who was surrounded and immediately tackled - turnover! Does he never THINK?? I suspect with White, we might have snatched the win.

BTW heard a whisper the Dees will be aggressively seeking a big-name forward. Good source. We'll see...

his worst was horrible, but as far as his ruck contests went he did reasonably well today... took it up to hille who has been in great form and broke even with him i felt... if he hadn't have fudged up those simple opportunities he would've won that battle...

When I saw the replay of the mark, play on, point it seemed as though he was under the impression the ball was touched. Darcy and the other bloke on the 5th quarter both said they were quite impressed with him today

BTW heard a whisper the Dees will be aggressively seeking a big-name forward. Good source. We'll see...

Pavlich. He'd be fairly handy

Had me cringing, three shocking play-ons that ended ugly. I presume he's under instructions to move the ball on quickly whenever he gets his hands on it. The mucked up kick for goal, right in front of the goal-square, was laughable.

Twice he had opportunity to go back and kick to a target but handballed to a player who was surrounded and immediately tackled - turnover! Does he never THINK?? I suspect with White, we might have snatched the win.

BTW heard a whisper the Dees will be aggressively seeking a big-name forward. Good source. We'll see...

He played a good game today & did many things that tend to go unnoticed by many. Diving on the ground ball & feeding out the handball to teammate, goal. Blocking for mates . Some good marks around the ground & up forward, a good goal from 45 mtrs richmond end.

Lets not think of the shots he missed but rather the fact that he was in the right position to win the ball in the first place but hasn't yet gotten comfortable enough to finish well. He will.

yeah he's a lot better than earlier this year. Agree we did very well out of the centre, & Jamar helped there. He's just got to learn when NOT to play on.

BTW the umpire never indicated his mark was touched, not that I saw anyway. Must have been a rush of blood to the head !

I haven't seen the game but from what I could gather he was smashing them in the ruck. Only 1 or 2 bad handballs it would seem. Ive always been a big fan or the Russian. Yes he has made my heart drop sometimes but....He is going to tear games apart along with PJ sooner than we think.

According to superfooty we dominated the hitouts 39 to 20 and was superior at ground level, with 37 to 33 clearances.

Didn't see the game but both Jamar and Johnson must have been solid?

BTW heard a whisper the Dees will be aggressively seeking a big-name forward. Good source. We'll see...

Jack Watts.

I agree Grazman.

Jamar was very good in the ruck, but let himself down from being one of our best due toi 2 bad handballs in the centre from free's, the play on missed goal, and 2 other shots which were very get-able.

I just saw the stats, Jamar killed Hille in ruck hitouts. The Russian obviously doesn't have natural instinct for what's happening around him, to compute which players are free and where. So he's just got to learn to steady when he takes a mark and think about what's his best option. Which is not handballing to an immediate turnover (such a waste).

Didn't see the game but both Jamar and Johnson must have been solid?

Paul Johnson was a rock. Great passion. He doesn't often muck up. Showed good strength on the forward line, strong in marking duels and quick at it when the ball drops.

The bummers have been the number 1 team for clearances in the past month. If White had been playing we would have been smashed in the clearances and on the scoreboard IMO. Jamar had 12 disposals, 9 contested. Please find me a game in the last 3 years where White had 75% of his possies in contested situations, or even 9 of his 20+ touches.

Jamar may not pick up 15 dinky little sideways kicks a match, but his value at the stoppages is way ahead of Whites. That's a ruckmans job, to get you first use

i agree. jamars follow up efforts after the tap to sheppard and make space for our mids was fantastic today. he made second third and forth efforts both on the ball and at clearing space. one of his best games for the club IMO

i agree. jamars follow up efforts after the tap to sheppard and make space for our mids was fantastic today. he made second third and forth efforts both on the ball and at clearing space. one of his best games for the club IMO

Jamar provided us a with a real contest at the stopages, and despite his bloopers, was very influential. I'm still not sold on PJ as a forward or a ruckman. He played there out of necessity this week and did quite well, but is not a long term option.

BTW, Luke Darcy has been doing some ruck coaching down at the club.

Speaking of ruckman, it made me cringe when I saw that Brad Moran kicked 4 goals for the Crows. The Crows used the draft pick that we gave them for Meesen to pick up Moran from the Roos.

Brad Moran could be anything.

He's 200cm and quicker than Buddy off the mark, I remember reading on BigFooty that a few people thought he was being played out of position in the ruck at the Kanga's and would make a better CHB or FF.

He only started playing footy at 16 or 17 too

Jamar has been performing well in the last few weeks.

Getting a lot of hitouts now. And they seem to be a little more effective than they used to be. Hell, we killed essendon in the clearances on saturday so something must be going right.

His posession counts are now routinely into double figures, where not so long ago double figures were a rare occurance.

And my personal favourite thing about Jamar is the tackling - how many ruckmen are there, really, who are in the top 50 for tackles/game in the AFL, with more than four a match?

Throw in the cameo contested marking up forward and he is now a very handy player.

I'd say his contribution right now (in what we might have to call the 'post-white' era) is up by a half on what it was ten weeks ago.

The thing that irks me about Jamar is his absolute lack of skill. Yesterday was a perfect exapmle of this...

He just doesnt seem to have the natural ability to play football. Period.

However... He's a great ruckman, would jump on a hand grenade for the team and generally always gives his all. It's just given his limitations, i don't see him going anywhere in the AFL in the future, except the scrapheap. I love that he was able to dominate Hille (IMO the A-A ruckman this year) in the ruck, and his big body is useful right after the ruck contest in contested situations. But what after that? He can take a big grab in the forwardline, but he doesnt do that often enough and as we saw yesterday, can often let himself down with his kicking, and while he is working harder than ever around the ground, he's still well below par.

I've written him off many a time, and so far this year he's done his best to prove me wrong. But i still believe he'll be a mediocre player at best, with horrible skills and decision making, poor athleticism and no versatility. If yesterday was his best game for the club then something is not right. (IMO his best game(s) have been against Sandilands).

The thing that irks me about Jamar is his absolute lack of skill. Yesterday was a perfect exapmle of this...

He just doesnt seem to have the natural ability to play football. Period.

However... He's a great ruckman, would jump on a hand grenade for the team and generally always gives his all. It's just given his limitations, i don't see him going anywhere in the AFL in the future, except the scrapheap. I love that he was able to dominate Hille (IMO the A-A ruckman this year) in the ruck, and his big body is useful right after the ruck contest in contested situations. But what after that? He can take a big grab in the forwardline, but he doesnt do that often enough and as we saw yesterday, can often let himself down with his kicking, and while he is working harder than ever around the ground, he's still well below par.

I've written him off many a time, and so far this year he's done his best to prove me wrong. But i still believe he'll be a mediocre player at best, with horrible skills and decision making, poor athleticism and no versatility. If yesterday was his best game for the club then something is not right. (IMO his best game(s) have been against Sandilands).

He's hardly alone in the poor skills department Doggo. Jamar is one of many on the list whose development was hindered rather than helped under Daniher. He has shown plenty of improvement this year and so have the others (Miller, PJ, CJ, Warnock, etc). He's still reasonably young for a ruckman. If he can keep improving, disposal being an obvious area he needs to work on, I think he could end up a pretty good ruck.

Jamar had 28 hitouts, compared to that of 20 total hitouts to the scum. So long as the majority of these hitouts go to advantage and he's winning the ruck contest, there is no reason to drop him. With PJ in hot form, who would also be able to pinch hit in the ruck as well.

My old man went to the 150 celebration dinner a month or so ago and spoke to Jamar for a while. Jamar said that he has pretty much lost all confidence at set shots at goal, probably the reason for not going back 10 metres out and slotting it through. It is still no excuse IMO, if you can't kick a goal from there you can't kick 'em anywhere. But that's the reason for his shocking mistake. Which to me is sad, as i believe he has a decent kick for a big man and he can take a pack mark in the forward line too.

Confidence is what is needed. If he gets that up and continues to impress in the ruck, then he deserves his spot in the team as much as anyone.

Fair enough he has made some very ordinary clangers but I am beggining to be more and more impressed with the big fella. Hille will probably be named All Australian this year and Jamar matched him if not beat him in the ruck today. He is starting to get the ball a bit more around the ground and when you think of how rare stats have been for him other than hit outs , it`s no wonder he stuffs it up occassionally cos he is not used to having the pill in his hands and he is instinctively trying to give it off! I am actually starting to think we don`t need Warnock at all and save that pick for a decent forward. Jamar, for the past few weeks has been far more effective in the ruck and around the ground than White has been in the past 2 years.

He's hardly alone in the poor skills department Doggo. Jamar is one of many on the list whose development was hindered rather than helped under Daniher. He has shown plenty of improvement this year and so have the others (Miller, PJ, CJ, Warnock, etc). He's still reasonably young for a ruckman. If he can keep improving, disposal being an obvious area he needs to work on, I think he could end up a pretty good ruck.

True, but he really is in a league of his own in the wider football community, basically as the player with the worst kick, at the worst kicking club.

Anyhow, all good points, however i'm not going to be so easily sold on Jamar.

I do recognize his improvement, and find that every week he does at least one thing to make me think he might just turn it all around. His ruckwork is excellent, and his use of his body has improved too. He's also running harder and covering more ground than ever before (although still needs to run harder more consistently IMO).

However, for every good thing he does, he seems to do something just as poorly (although a lot less in recent times).

And at this stage, given his best has only just been "good", his worst is as bad as it gets, and after 6 seasons in the system- he's gonna have to do some real amazing things to make me change my opinion of him.

Recent form isn't going to 'rose-tint' my glasses just yet...

Jamar was competitive today. Bailey is doing the right thing in giving him first dids to show what he has got.

One thing i noticed is that when he was rested we got flogged in the ruck contests. PJ is definetly a much better forward/around the ground player - hopefully he can improve his ruckwork.

yeah he's a lot better than earlier this year. Agree we did very well out of the centre, & Jamar helped there. He's just got to learn when NOT to play on.

BTW the umpire never indicated his mark was touched, not that I saw anyway. Must have been a rush of blood to the head !

You know, It's like Buckley, playing on for the last 2 years & then running into pressure before kicking the ball poorly. Buckley continued to take the game on making mistakes untill finally he started to work out how to do it, & now he's becoming a much better player for it.

I'd rather players take the game head on than sit back cautiously & play safe, not pushing themselves & their limits whilst they're young & learning. Sure they have to play tempo footy @ times, there's a time & place for it all.

JAMAR is having a go & I don't care if he looks foolish at times just as long as he's learning from it.

We need a big bloke who's prepared to throw a bit of weight around on the teams behalf.

Go for it Jamar..

True, but he really is in a league of his own in the wider football community, basically as the player with the worst kick, at the worst kicking club.

Anyhow, all good points, however i'm not going to be so easily sold on Jamar.

I do recognize his improvement, and find that every week he does at least one thing to make me think he might just turn it all around. His ruckwork is excellent, and his use of his body has improved too. He's also running harder and covering more ground than ever before (although still needs to run harder more consistently IMO).

However, for every good thing he does, he seems to do something just as poorly (although a lot less in recent times).

And at this stage, given his best has only just been "good", his worst is as bad as it gets, and after 6 seasons in the system- he's gonna have to do some real amazing things to make me change my opinion of him.

Recent form isn't going to 'rose-tint' my glasses just yet...

Doggo, your very stubborn mate, I think I remember you from the dees - saints supporters games & I don't remember seeing you watching sandy games much.

I've seen the best of jamar including his purple patches with kicking & his poor performances, & he can do nearly all of it when it comes out of him instinctively, when he doesn't overthink the situation. When people who lack self belief have too much time to think, the self doubt can cause mistakes. He needs us to be supportive & cheer when he does well & to say, c,mon mate when he lacks effort.

Games of experience & good ol' cheering for his good stuff will help him enormously. But we do need to keep him on his toes.